Trump may have Special Counsel Mueller fired

[Pens1566]

I absolutely see the point in that argument. I just think (maybe hope?) that someone would sit him down and explain that it would be the last act he would take as President.

It's sad that the minimum of rationality is a far fetched hope with this man isn't it?

I would like to agree with your hope, but that ship has sailed. And it hit an iceberg and sank. Long time ago. Any thought that he couldn't possibly fire Mueller died the minute he fired Comey. He will do whatever he deems necessary to save his own orange ass. Mueller will go. Pardons will go. And then we get to see just how strong our democratic institutions are. And whether the people in power actually believe in them or their party.

It's going to be a terrifying summer.

 

[retrospooty]

I would like to agree with your hope, but that ship has sailed. And it hit an iceberg and sank. Long time ago. Any thought that he couldn't possibly fire Mueller died the minute he fired Comey. He will do whatever he deems necessary to save his own orange ass. Mueller will go. Pardons will go. And then we get to see just how strong our democratic institutions are. And whether the people in power actually believe in them or their party.

It's going to be a terrifying summer.

I agree with your post except for the last line. It's going to be an awesome summer hee hee hee. Just sit back and watch the show. Anyhow, if you dislike Trumps agenda like me, all this distracts from it and he gets less of it done so all in all an investigated Trump white house is far better than a legislative Trump white house.

 

[fskimospy]

I would like to agree with your hope, but that ship has sailed. And it hit an iceberg and sank. Long time ago. Any thought that he couldn't possibly fire Mueller died the minute he fired Comey. He will do whatever he deems necessary to save his own orange ass. Mueller will go. Pardons will go. And then we get to see just how strong our democratic institutions are. And whether the people in power actually believe in them or their party.

It's going to be a terrifying summer.

Hmm, we'll see. Since Trump can't fire Mueller himself and needs the Deputy AG to do so I strongly suspect any attempt by Trump to fire him would lead to at least the DAG's resignation and potentially quite a few more. I don't know how far down the Justice Department ladder you have to go before you find someone as unprincipled as Robert Bork but my guess is at least a few.

You're right that Trump firing him would create an immediate governance crisis though, and I'm not sure Republicans in Congress are strong enough to put country over party.

 

[Pens1566]

Hmm, we'll see. Since Trump can't fire Mueller himself and needs the Deputy AG to do so I strongly suspect any attempt by Trump to fire him would lead to at least the DAG's resignation and potentially quite a few more. I don't know how far down the Justice Department ladder you have to go before you find someone as unprincipled as Robert Bork but my guess is at least a few.

You're right that Trump firing him would create an immediate governance crisis though, and I'm not sure Republicans in Congress are strong enough to put country over party.

So, I read some analysis last night that basically boiled down to Trump being able to fire Mueller directly if he was so inclined. Some clause about presidential supremacy in the exec. branch. Dunno, IANAL. It was from a constitutional law perspective however. Maybe Tribe?

As far as the DoJ chain, it boils down to Brand and Boente as confirmed officials after Rosenstein. THAT'S IT because Trump hasn't appointed the rest of the damn department. So I think if they both reject/resign, then there's no one left at the DoJ with the authority as it requires a confirmed position.

 

[fskimospy]

So, I read some analysis last night that basically boiled down to Trump being able to fire Mueller directly if he was so inclined. Some clause about presidential supremacy in the exec. branch. Dunno, IANAL. It was from a constitutional law perspective however. Maybe Tribe?

As far as the DoJ chain, it boils down to Brand and Boente as confirmed officials after Rosenstein. THAT'S IT because Trump hasn't appointed the rest of the damn department. So I think if they both reject/resign, then there's no one left at the DoJ with the authority as it requires a confirmed position.

It's kind of the same thing either way IMO. Trump could rescind the regulation that puts that responsibility for firing the special prosecutor in the hands of the DAG but I can't imagine the DAG wouldn't resign over that too as it really amounts to the same thing.

I don't think firing him requires a confirmed position but I'm not sure. My suspicion is that an acting DAG could do it just as well.

 

[Pens1566]

It's kind of the same thing either way IMO. Trump could rescind the regulation that puts that responsibility for firing the special prosecutor in the hands of the DAG but I can't imagine the DAG wouldn't resign over that too as it really amounts to the same thing.

I don't think firing him requires a confirmed position but I'm not sure. My suspicion is that an acting DAG could do it just as well.

The only current Deputies are Brand and Boente. The DoJ order includes some US Attorneys (Illinois, Missouri), but they were fired.

 

[Pens1566]

And this whole "what's legal?" argument is really moot anyway. We're talking about Trump here. He'll do whatever he wants, damn the legality.

 

[xthetenth]

And this whole "what's legal?" argument is really moot anyway. We're talking about Trump here. He'll do whatever he wants, damn the legality.

The question isn't what's legal but what powers exist to make things stick to him that aren't dominated by the GOP.

 

[fskimospy]

The question isn't what's legal but what powers exist to make things stick to him that aren't dominated by the GOP.

This is the most important issue. Our government was originally created with the idea that the branches would act in an adversarial manner, something which has not proven to be true so far. Sure you can (and should!) blame Trump for his incredible corruption but you also have to blame Republicans in Congress for enabling him.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

@boomerang: let me go on record here saying, contrary to your assumption everyone left of Stalin would be "bitter" over him getting rid of Mueller, I would be ecstatic.

Der Drumpfenscheisser is in the middle stages of his narcissistic breakdown. He becomes more and more unhinged every day (and so do you, incidentally...). It's tragic, and I'd be sympathetic if this were happening to almost anyone else, but right now I am ready for some massive schadenfreude. So I hope he does it. I hope the stupid, solipsistic, narcissistic fat sack of shit does it, and worse, and I hope this becomes a massive bloodbath.

 

[xthetenth]

and I hope this becomes a massive bloodbath.

I'm on board up till here. His die-hards have rationalized everything up to here. If it gets bloody it means actual bloodshed, and I really don't want that sort of people shooting people.

On the other hand the rule of law means literally nothing here and the more universal revulsion we get, the more people who can't rationalize everything away, the more likely the country is to be able to actually learn from this horror show.

 

[Moonbeam]

This is the most important issue. Our government was originally created with the idea that the branches would act in an adversarial manner, something which has not proven to be true so far. Sure you can (and should!) blame Trump for his incredible corruption but you also have to blame Republicans in Congress for enabling him.

How do you blame machines for following their programming? Republicans enable Trump because they have profound faith there is a war going on between good and evil, between Republican world view and the darkness of situational ethics, between the word of God and the evil of Satan, and the damnation of the nation. They have to support Trump to save the world.

This, of course is the result of delusional faith, of bigotry, of arrogance and ego, the certain faith that just because there is a good that what one has been inculcated by violence and threat to believe is the good, actually is. What you are asking is for these poor traumatized and deeply emotionally damaged people to face up to their pain, to let go of all they have been propagandized to believe will save them. You are asking them to die to faith and collapse into emotional despair, to die to themselves. What we are asking of Republicans, can we do it ourselves? Do we know how? Can we let go of ego?

I think before much can change, we will first have to become more aware of the real issues, that that particular awareness become more universal so that many many minds are looking for solutions and to change the culture that maintains this form of mental illness.

 

[Moonbeam]

As to Trump firing Mueller, I think this may only be a ploy to create as sense of impending disaster so as to make Trump look better if he doesn't. When there is only bad news the news looks better if it proves less a disaster than feared. It will give supporters a thing predicted that didn't happen, something to be smug about.

 

[Thebobo]

It's just a diversion away from the senate health care debacle.

 

[agent00f]

How do you blame machines for following their programming? Republicans enable Trump because they have profound faith there is a war going on between good and evil, between Republican world view and the darkness of situational ethics, between the word of God and the evil of Satan, and the damnation of the nation. They have to support Trump to save the world.

This, of course is the result of delusional faith, of bigotry, of arrogance and ego, the certain faith that just because there is a good that what one has been inculcated by violence and threat to believe is the good, actually is. What you are asking is for these poor traumatized and deeply emotionally damaged people to face up to their pain, to let go of all they have been propagandized to believe will save them. You are asking them to die to faith and collapse into emotional despair, to die to themselves. What we are asking of Republicans, can we do it ourselves? Do we know how? Can we let go of ego?

I think before much can change, we will first have to become more aware of the real issues, that that particular awareness become more universal so that many many minds are looking for solutions and to change the culture that maintains this form of mental illness.

They can apparently rid themselves of ego by bragging about how free of ego they are, sort of like how they brag about everything else.

 

[woolfe9998]

As to Trump firing Mueller, I think this may only be a ploy to create as sense of impending disaster so as to make Trump look better if he doesn't. When there is only bad news the news looks better if it proves less a disaster than feared. It will give supporters a thing predicted that didn't happen, something to be smug about.

Probably. He did the exact same thing when he floated in the media the notion that he might try to block Comey from testifying, only to later claim that he wouldn't do this because he "has nothing to hide."

 

[HTFOff]

I may or may not microwave my broccoli tonight. Not sure. Just throwing it out there.

 

[Meghan54]

I may or may not microwave my broccoli tonight. Not sure. Just throwing it out there.

Try your scrotum instead....might be more worthwhile. Youtube it. Oreo needs some fresh material.

 

[boomerang]

I hope this becomes a massive bloodbath.

I can tell from your bravado and your avatar as well that you're quite the badass. I'm making a mental note that when the revolution comes to be sure to stay clear of your neighborhood.

 

[WelshBloke]

I can tell from your bravado and your avatar as well that you're quite the badass. I'm making a mental note that when the revolution comes to be sure to stay clear of your neighborhood.

I'm assuming that "political" bloodbath was what was meant there.

 

[mikeymikec]

I can tell from your bravado and your avatar as well that you're quite the badass. I'm making a mental note that when the revolution comes to be sure to stay clear of your neighborhood.

Hey boomerang, you're back on this thread again! Would you like to cite some sources for your claims earlier in this thread?

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-counsel-mueller-fired.2508655/#post-38936124

 

[Pens1566]

Hey boomerang, you're back on this thread again! Would you like to cite some sources for your claims earlier in this thread?

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-counsel-mueller-fired.2508655/#post-38936124

Lol, such a convenient coincidence that he's ignored that original pile of bullshit.

 

[cytg111]

I can tell from your bravado and your avatar as well that you're quite the badass. I'm making a mental note that when the revolution comes to be sure to stay clear of your neighborhood.

- Arh, showing your hand here boomboom .. boomerang is not a republican, he is an anarchist, wanting to burn down the world so something ..different.. can grow from the ashes. Its not about dems, rebubs or whatever, he is backing the horse that is most likely to set fire to the whole thing... And in that perspective I can defn. understand why you are backing Trump.

 

[fskimospy]

- Arh, showing your hand here boomboom .. boomerang is not a republican, he is an anarchist, wanting to burn down the world so something ..different.. can grow from the ashes. Its not about dems, rebubs or whatever, he is backing the horse that is most likely to set fire to the whole thing... And in that perspective I can defn. understand why you are backing Trump.

Not really, he's just a walking right wing talk radio segment. Whatever their views are you can rest assured that he will come in here, repeat them almost verbatim, and then ignore everyone who tries to engage him on the substance of his insane rant, assuming that particular rant actually has substance.

I don't know exactly what he gets out of doing that but I'm quite sure he is not here to discuss things with people.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

@boomerang: that avatar isn't a badass. She's a space-time jumping lesbian trying to find her best friend/adoptive big sister/love interest. The only reason she hasn't gotten killed yet is that paper cutter she's carrying turns into a sword with a mind of its own when something bad happens. Not going to explain why; the home series is the weirdest thing I've ever seen, something like 4 parts Quantum Leap and one part The L Word.

Also, for a woman it's "Bravada," not that you'd know that Keep on derpin', champ!