News Trump: Mar-a-Lago just raided by FBI

[ImpulsE69]

Greenman is trying to apply the 'twisted media fake news' aspect to this, when there is no grey area at all. This isn't speculation or sensationalism or political slant. This is outright illegal period. There is no 'question' of did he or didn't he. He can feign like he didn't know, he can state that they planted it, but he already admitted he did it. Multiple times. Once he stated "I declassified them' it is up to him to prove that he did, and it's already been stated by the highest powers that he did not and can not. That's before we even get to the 'they planted them, I didn't know about them, but I declassified them' excuses. He's used ALL of these. They counter each other.

This does not mean the DOJ doesn't need to build a case around it which takes time. He's guilty, it's just a matter of laying it out in court in a manner that he can't weasle out of it. The only real question that remains is what exactly is going to be done about it.

 

[MrSquished]

It doesn't matter what the content is, it is illegal to store classified documents in your house. I can't just read a TS document and decide "Oh, this stuff isn't actually important, I'm going to take it home with me, when I am fired from my job."

Just admit it, in your eyes no republican can ever do anything wrong. And you feign ignorance to support your position.

Feign ignorance, willfull ignorance. Either or. It's just constant and for so long by these regressives. There are very very few Republicans with character left. Greenman is nowhere near to being one of those.

 

[Muse]

That this man hasn't been convicted of perjury (to date) is a major testament to the frailty of the justice system in the USA.

 

[iRONic]

Feign ignorance, willfull ignorance. Either or. It's just constant and for so long by these regressives. There are very very few Republicans with character left. Greenman is nowhere near to being one of those.

This is what I hear whenever I read his posts…

🎶Foot in mouth and head up ass
So whatcha talkin' 'bout?
Difficult to dance 'round this one
'Til you pull it out, boy🎶

 

[Dave_5k]

More on the Trump crime family, from the House investigation on Kushner, while came out in June I hadn't previously noticed it:

https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/2022-06-02.CBM%20to%20Kushner-A%20Fin%20Management%20LLC%20re%20Saudi%20Arabia%20Conflicts.pdf

An excerpt from the linked full interesting report, technically the $2 billion Saudi investment hasn't yet been proven to be a bribe (or rather, the % management fees on the investment ~ "only" $40+ million/year for minimal work). Jared just happened to ignore official policy makers on Saudi, while having daddy-in-law implement pro-regime policies, against advice of US policy makers, while working outside of legitimate US channels.
...
In October 2018, Saudi agents brutally killed and dismembered journalist and regime critic Jamal Khashoggi, a murder which U.S. intelligence assessments determined was likely carried out on the orders of Crown Prince bin Salman. In the aftermath of Mr. Khashoggi’s murder, you “became the prince’s most important defender inside the White House” and reportedly “offered the crown prince advice about how to weather the storm, urging him to resolve his conflicts around the region and avoid further embarrassments.”11

In another instance, you met privately—without U.S. diplomats present—with officials from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (U.A.E.) and reportedly discussed those nations’ planned blockade of Qatar, a U.S. ally that hosts the largest U.S. military base in the Middle East. When Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E. carried out this blockade shortly thereafter, President Trump publicly supported their actions over the objections of senior U.S. officials, including Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.12

Throughout this time, you reportedly exchanged personal messages on WhatsApp with Crown Prince bin Salman, worrying senior officials who believed such informal contacts, outside normal diplomatic channels, could leave you “susceptible to Saudi manipulation.”13 These concerns were heightened by reports that the Crown Prince told confidants that you were “in his pocket.” 14

In 2019, the Committee released two reports detailing how you pushed a project to share nuclear power technology with Saudi Arabia over the concerns of senior national security leaders. The Saudi nuclear project, if successful, would have benefitted an asset management firm, Brookfield Asset Management, which subsequently bailed out a troubled property owned by your family’s real estate business, Kushner Companies. 15

In addition, while you were shaping U.S. policy toward Saudi Arabia, your brother Joshua Kushner’s venture capital firm Thrive Capital Management (Thrive), was engaging in business with Saudi officials, including the managing director of PIF. 16
....

 

[nakedfrog]

That this man hasn't been convicted of perjury (to date) is a major testament to the frailty of the justice system in the USA.

If it keeps powerful, connected people from experiencing consequences, it's functioning as currently intended (sadly)

 

[trenchfoot]

More on the Trump crime family, from the House investigation on Kushner, while came out in June I hadn't previously noticed it:

https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/2022-06-02.CBM%20to%20Kushner-A%20Fin%20Management%20LLC%20re%20Saudi%20Arabia%20Conflicts.pdf

An excerpt from the linked full interesting report, technically the $2 billion Saudi investment hasn't yet been proven to be a bribe (or rather, the % management fees on the investment ~ "only" $40+ million/year for minimal work). Jared just happened to ignore official policy makers on Saudi, while having daddy-in-law implement pro-regime policies, against advice of US policy makers, while working outside of legitimate US channels.
...
In October 2018, Saudi agents brutally killed and dismembered journalist and regime critic Jamal Khashoggi, a murder which U.S. intelligence assessments determined was likely carried out on the orders of Crown Prince bin Salman. In the aftermath of Mr. Khashoggi’s murder, you “became the prince’s most important defender inside the White House” and reportedly “offered the crown prince advice about how to weather the storm, urging him to resolve his conflicts around the region and avoid further embarrassments.”11

In another instance, you met privately—without U.S. diplomats present—with officials from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (U.A.E.) and reportedly discussed those nations’ planned blockade of Qatar, a U.S. ally that hosts the largest U.S. military base in the Middle East. When Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E. carried out this blockade shortly thereafter, President Trump publicly supported their actions over the objections of senior U.S. officials, including Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.12

Throughout this time, you reportedly exchanged personal messages on WhatsApp with Crown Prince bin Salman, worrying senior officials who believed such informal contacts, outside normal diplomatic channels, could leave you “susceptible to Saudi manipulation.”13 These concerns were heightened by reports that the Crown Prince told confidants that you were “in his pocket.” 14

In 2019, the Committee released two reports detailing how you pushed a project to share nuclear power technology with Saudi Arabia over the concerns of senior national security leaders. The Saudi nuclear project, if successful, would have benefitted an asset management firm, Brookfield Asset Management, which subsequently bailed out a troubled property owned by your family’s real estate business, Kushner Companies. 15

In addition, while you were shaping U.S. policy toward Saudi Arabia, your brother Joshua Kushner’s venture capital firm Thrive Capital Management (Thrive), was engaging in business with Saudi officials, including the managing director of PIF. 16
....

Too bad those stuck on stupid folks who are umbilically connected to FOX will never ever see or hear of the Trump crime family's numerous acts of malfeasance in their pursuit of ill-begotten gain. In fact, I'll venture to say that Trump's supporters approve of his and his kids efforts to pilfer the coffers of the nation and exploit Trump's position as POTUS as a means to cheat the system we are all obligated to live by of every dollar and penny they could possibly get away with. The Trumps are wired that way and it didn't matter to them at all to change their ways and behave themselves when daddy Don hoaxed his way into office. You'd think once a person gains the highest office of the land they'd at the least try to adhere to the time honored traditions and protocol expected of that office but the Trump clan could only see Donald's ascension as a miraculous opportunity to satiate their greed and their lust for celebrity status.

 

[amenx]

Learned a new word today: idiocracy. Seems thats the form of government that appeals most to MAGAts.

 

[Muse]

Learned a new word today: idiocracy. Seems thats the form of government that appeals most to MAGAts.

To paraphrase Winston Churchill: Democracy seems a great idea until you have a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.
- - - -
This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown aside with great force -Dorothy Parker

 

[Pohemi]

Learned a new word today: idiocracy. Seems thats the form of government that appeals most to MAGAts.

Now go watch the movie of the same name, and realize that it's just a little ways down the road we currently find ourselves travelling on.

'Idiocracy' IMDB page

 

[m8d]

Learned a new word today: idiocracy. Seems thats the form of government that appeals most to MAGAts.

 

[rommelrommel]

Now go watch the movie of the same name, and realize that it's just a little ways down the road we currently find ourselves travelling on.

'Idiocracy' IMDB page

I really disagree. The people in idiocracy did accept the evidence when they saw water make the plants grow.

 

[hal2kilo]

I really disagree. The people in idiocracy did accept the evidence when they saw water make the plants grow.

You mean from the toilet?

 

[cytg111]

View attachment 67374

Without proper tutoring we are nothing but 50.000 year old late stone age hunter gathers.
Without tutoring we are just APES. Fact. For the life of me I dont understand why we are unable to deal with our own psychology according to what we know to be true. To be factual. True verified scientific fact.
Stupid.

 

[Greenman]

Greenman is trying to apply the 'twisted media fake news' aspect to this, when there is no grey area at all. This isn't speculation or sensationalism or political slant. This is outright illegal period. There is no 'question' of did he or didn't he. He can feign like he didn't know, he can state that they planted it, but he already admitted he did it. Multiple times. Once he stated "I declassified them' it is up to him to prove that he did, and it's already been stated by the highest powers that he did not and can not. That's before we even get to the 'they planted them, I didn't know about them, but I declassified them' excuses. He's used ALL of these. They counter each other.

This does not mean the DOJ doesn't need to build a case around it which takes time. He's guilty, it's just a matter of laying it out in court in a manner that he can't weasle out of it. The only real question that remains is what exactly is going to be done about it.

What's wrong with having a trial? How is that twisted? I want the entire story laid out, not speculation by a bunch of google trained attorneys.
The problem most here have with me is the same one that's been going on for years, I won't jump on your bandwagon. If Trump is tried and convicted then off he goes to jail and I'm happy with the outcome. One thing I won't be is emotionally invested either way.

 

[cytg111]

What's wrong with having a trial? How is that twisted? I want the entire story laid out, not speculation by a bunch of google trained attorneys.
The problem most here have with me is the same one that's been going on for years, I won't jump on your bandwagon. If Trump is tried and convicted then off he goes to jail and I'm happy with the outcome. One thing I won't be is emotionally invested either way.

The science officer in me approves of this message.

 

[Zorba]

What's wrong with having a trial? How is that twisted? I want the entire story laid out, not speculation by a bunch of google trained attorneys.
The problem most here have with me is the same one that's been going on for years, I won't jump on your bandwagon. If Trump is tried and convicted then off he goes to jail and I'm happy with the outcome. One thing I won't be is emotionally invested either way.

Trump hasn't denied having the materials, the law is very clear that is illegal. There really isn't much to debate here.

 

[QueBert]

But remember, you or I are not even close to Trump's level. He stated a few years ago that the

What's wrong with having a trial? How is that twisted? I want the entire story laid out, not speculation by a bunch of google trained attorneys.
The problem most here have with me is the same one that's been going on for years, I won't jump on your bandwagon. If Trump is tried and convicted then off he goes to jail and I'm happy with the outcome. One thing I won't be is emotionally invested either way.

Trump's admitted he had the shit, he claims he declassified all of it. Which he didn't have the power to do, and whatever he did declassify that was under his power, he still didn't have the right to remove it and take it to his house.

At best he can try to argue "I didn't know I couldn't take them home!" And while I'll give him credit he's stupid enough to actually have believed he could wave his hand and *POOF* declassify shit, and then take it with him as a parting gift. But ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, if you break a law just because you didn't know you were breaking a law, you still get in trouble.

He's admitted it, so he's guilty. Just because he doesn't understand shouldn't mean shit. He at worst should be locked up, the only reason I'm for a trial is that I hope he gets the book thrown at him so all his followers can cry about it. I love seeing MAGA idiots in a tizzy. Trump being in prison while Hunter's still free and there's no magical notebook. And Hillary still free would be glorious.

IF somehow he is found not guilty in the trial, it will make the OJ verdict look like the greatest justice I've seen in my life.

 

[Dave_5k]

Trump hasn't denied having the materials, the law is very clear that is illegal. There really isn't much to debate here.

Furthermore, Trump had his lawyers in an affidavit sign that all confidential materials had previously been returned after a diligent search (prior to the raid that turned up material additional confidential and top secret files), and then Trump posted confirmations on-line indicating not only that he knew he retained such confidential materials, he also demonstrated knowledge of the specific content of said materials (e.g. that the foreign nuclear secrets he held onto were in regards to Iran), which could be further harmful to national security.

There is now no question the law was knowingly broken, and that he led/allowed his lawyers lie to the court about it. Without Trump's statements and social media, there would still be a question about the "knowing" part, although my understanding is that isn't even a requirement under at least some of the relevant statutes quoted by the DoJ.

The only real question ~ (1) is the DoJ absolutely certain they can win a conviction - not just that they are 100% certain that he broke the law, but they can make a simple and clear case for a jury that leaves any jurist no doubt. They won't bring the case if they aren't essentially 100% sure of that; and (2) does the DoJ decide if it is in the national interest to convict a former president in this case, or is merely having (hopefully) recovered all of the stolen confidential files sufficient to prevent future harm.

 

[Muse]

Trump hasn't denied having the materials, the law is very clear that is illegal. There really isn't much to debate here.

He's even asserted that they are his property. That's beyond preposterous, even for the non-secret work he did as president. None of that belongs to him once OOO. It's forbidden to be in his possession. This all goes 1000x for the secret stuff and 100,000x for the top secret and 1,000,000x for the Top Secret SCI that he smuggled to MAL.
- - - -
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

[Paratus]

What's wrong with having a trial? How is that twisted? I want the entire story laid out, not speculation by a bunch of google trained attorneys.
The problem most here have with me is the same one that's been going on for years, I won't jump on your bandwagon. If Trump is tried and convicted then off he goes to jail and I'm happy with the outcome. One thing I won't be is emotionally invested either way.

The problem we have, or at least I do, is you try to present yourself as reasonable and unbiased but your posts show you are biased and you refuse to simply admit it.

Here’s a post of yours about Clinton’s email. Here you are asking critical questions of Clinton’s behavior.

Blackjack said much the same thing. But that doesn't address the question, why not use the state department provided service that she was required to use? There isn't an excuse for that, it isn't sensible, so why did she do it? It's a valid question to ask and it has to be answered.

yet in this thread you ask no critical questions of Trumps behavior. You act “reasonably” critical of Democrats and “reasonably” uncritical of republicans. Hence your bias.

 

[Pohemi]

The science officer in me approves of this message.

I agree with the 'message' itself, I just know that the message isn't being honestly delivered by @Greenman

It rarely is, and you need only read his prior posts in this thread to see it. Or hundreds of other threads he's 'participated' in over the years (ie dishonesty, deflection, obfuscation, etc).

 

[cytg111]

I agree with the 'message' itself, I just know that the message isn't being honestly delivered by @Greenman

It rarely is, and you need only read his prior posts in this thread to see it. Or hundreds of other threads he's 'participated' in over the years (ie dishonesty, deflection, obfuscation, etc).

I know.
I also live by the rule that there is always a second chance.
I get disappointed a lot. This is the path I have chosen.

 

[Muse]

I know.
I also live by the rule that there is always a second chance.
I get disappointed a lot. This is the path I have chosen.

A lot of people, A LOT... NEVER CHANGE!
- - - -
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. - Albert Einstein

 

[rommelrommel]

But remember, you or I are not even close to Trump's level. He stated a few years ago that the


Trump's admitted he had the shit, he claims he declassified all of it.

His lawyers haven't tried this yet. Remember he claimed to declassify some stuff via tweet while president and Meadows had to argue that he didn't.

Meadows says Trump didn't intend to order declassification of all Russia probe documents

The White House chief of staff said Trump's tweets about the Russia probe this month "were not self-executing declassification orders."

www.cbsnews.com

President Trump was not directly ordering the declassification of all documents related to the Russia investigation when he tweeted earlier this month that he had "fully authorized the Declassification" all information, White House chief of staff Mark Meadows said in a federal court filing on Tuesday.

"The President indicated to me that his statements on Twitter were not self-executing declassification orders and do not require the declassification or release of any particular documents," Meadows wrote.