News Trump: Mar-a-Lago just raided by FBI

[QueBert]

For Trump claiming he didn't do anything wrong and the case against him was politically motivated. His people are ready to do anything to keep the reports from coming out.

He's made "I didn't do nuffin!" statements since day 1. So wouldn't these files completely clear his name and prove his innocence? I wonder how the MAGAs will spin this one lol.

Trump really is untouchable, I had hope up until mid 2024 that SOMETHING he did would come back to take him out. But there's no chance, I don't even believe these files will ever see the day of light. A convicted felon will be the president in a few weeks, yet Jack Smith who did nothing will probably have to flee the country to stay out of Diaper Dons warpath.

 

[Zorba]

Laws don’t matter either. Constitutions don’t matter. It’s all about people agreeing on a way to run things.

Better laws and enforcement of norms could've have prevented us from getting this far gone. At this point, though, I agree, judges would just strike down any law they didn't like.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Better laws and enforcement of norms could've have prevented us from getting this far gone. At this point, though, I agree, judges would just strike down any law they didn't like.

Norms aren't laws though. And laws only matter if people are willing to enforce them.

Republicans don't care about laws/norms.
No one challenges their behavior
Behavior that is challenged is struck down in courts
Lawsuit is appealed to SCOTUS, who Calvinballs their way to the desired result.

It is a broken system.

 

[Brainonska511]

And laws only matter if people are willing to enforce them.

Yep. There was actually a nice Propublica article yesterday about criminal cases in Alaska, and how they can drag out for years because judges just allow continuous delays, despite laws and rights that require speedy trials (if not waived). Just a microcosm of many of the bigger problems.

 

[nOOky]

They could be the most damming reports imaginable, but then, so what? What will anyone do about it, there's literally no legal recourse nor political. It will rile up those that don't like Trump, and his supporters won't give two shits. The only way to get rid of Trump is to get rid of him physically, which two patriots tried to do, but failed.

We have to hope he just tips over one day, and first responders take their time getting to him.

 

[Brainonska511]

They could be the most damming reports imaginable, but then, so what? What will anyone do about it, there's literally no legal recourse nor political. It will rile up those that don't like Trump, and his supporters won't give two shits. The only way to get rid of Trump is to get rid of him physically, which two patriots tried to do, but failed.

We have to hope he just tips over one day, and first responders take their time getting to him.

The whole point is to generate political and public outrage.

Republicans are not without agency and do sometimes respond to these things (take Matt Gaetz resigning and nominee withdrawal as an example), if enough public outrage can be generated.

 

[Pens1566]

The whole point is to generate political and public outrage.

Republicans are not without agency and do sometimes respond to these things (take Matt Gaetz resigning and nominee withdrawal as an example), if enough public outrage can be generated.

I think the more likely outcome from excess public outrage is for it to drive someone to act outside the legal pathways.

 

[Brainonska511]

I think the more likely outcome from excess public outrage is for it to drive someone to act outside the legal pathways.

Well, as we saw in the CEO thread, of legal means don't work, people might do rash things.

It's not like we haven't been living with right wing people pushing stochastic violence for years against groups they don't like...

 

[pmv]

Laws don’t matter either. Constitutions don’t matter. It’s all about people agreeing on a way to run things.

Surely they matter to a degree, over time, because the rules you start off with create the conditions that ultimately determine the nature of the people. If you get off to the wrong start, and don't course-correct pretty soon, eventually it comes back to bite you.

 

[Zorba]

Norms aren't laws though. And laws only matter if people are willing to enforce them.

Republicans don't care about laws/norms.
No one challenges their behavior
Behavior that is challenged is struck down in courts
Lawsuit is appealed to SCOTUS, who Calvinballs their way to the desired result.

It is a broken system.

I agree, we all sat around and let them destroy the norms while we did nothing. If somethings had been different 30 years ago, we may not have ended up with the completely corrupt court we have now. Now, of course, it'll be nearly impossible to fix.

 

[fskimospy]

I agree, we all sat around and let them destroy the norms while we did nothing. If somethings had been different 30 years ago, we may not have ended up with the completely corrupt court we have now. Now, of course, it'll be nearly impossible to fix.

What should have been done?

 

[hal2kilo]

What should have been done?

Biden should have made a few moves in the last few months since he's completely immune, per the Calvinball SCOTUS decision.

 

[Fkstick McDuff]

For Trump claiming he didn't do anything wrong and the case against him was politically motivated. His people are ready to do anything to keep the reports from coming out.

He's made "I didn't do nuffin!" statements since day 1. So wouldn't these files completely clear his name and prove his innocence? I wonder how the MAGAs will spin this one lol.

Never before have I seen such an innocent man fight so hard to hide evidence that would exonerate him. That drove me nuts during his last term, and I'm not looking forward to going through it again.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Never before have I seen such an innocent man fight so hard to hide evidence that would exonerate him. That drove me nuts during his last term, and I'm not looking forward to going through it again.

Except he's not innocent

 

[fskimospy]

Biden should have made a few moves in the last few months since he's completely immune, per the Calvinball SCOTUS decision.

While I agree, that would be Biden breaking norms as well. If the idea is we should have done something in the past to make Republicans adhere to norms what would that be? I wish they would but I personally doubt there was something to be done.

 

[you2]

The whole point is to generate political and public outrage.

Republicans are not without agency and do sometimes respond to these things (take Matt Gaetz resigning and nominee withdrawal as an example), if enough public outrage can be generated.

Wasn't public outrage; it was internal stuff that killed Gaetz (i.e, his removing McCarthy from house leadership).

 

[Brainonska511]

Wasn't public outrage; it was internal stuff that killed Gaetz (i.e, his removing McCarthy from house leadership).

It was a little bit of everything. He didn't make himself liked, and the outrage was enough to push it over the finish line.

 

[Fkstick McDuff]

I thought for sure that the classified documents case would finally be enough to sink him in the eyes of the public. He had rooms full of classified documents at his resort hotel! One of those rooms had a photocopier in it, for fuck sakes! Who knows how many secrets were exchanged for money? I'm not a genius, but if that's not treason, I don't know what to think anymore. Yet instead of a firing squad, he gets a get out of jail free card, immunity, and the keys to the highest office of the land. It's depressing.

 

[Zorba]

What should have been done?

Term limits, limiting the amount of time the Senate can sit on nominations, expanding the entirety of the court system decades ago and making it naturally expanding, federally banning gerrymandering, requiring some type of independent judge nomination process instead of political nomination, creating some way of punishing corruption or incompetent judges besides impeachment, etc.

What we have now is directly because we allowed the system to degrade while doing nothing. A huge reason for that is because when a system appears to be working no one has the political will to fix it, and now that it is broken it will be very hard to fix.

 

[K1052]

Term limits, limiting the amount of time the Senate can sit on nominations, expanding the entirety of the court system decades ago and making it naturally expanding, federally banning gerrymandering, requiring some type of independent judge nomination process instead of political nomination, creating some way of punishing corruption or incompetent judges besides impeachment, etc.

What we have now is directly because we allowed the system to degrade while doing nothing. A huge reason for that is because when a system appears to be working no one has the political will to fix it, and now that it is broken it will be very hard to fix.

The first part of any such plan MUST be to pack the Supreme Court because you're going to run afoul of Major Questions Doctrine (we will do whatever the fuck we want and Congress cannot stop us).

 

[fskimospy]

Term limits, limiting the amount of time the Senate can sit on nominations, expanding the entirety of the court system decades ago and making it naturally expanding, federally banning gerrymandering, requiring some type of independent judge nomination process instead of political nomination, creating some way of punishing corruption or incompetent judges besides impeachment, etc.

What we have now is directly because we allowed the system to degrade while doing nothing. A huge reason for that is because when a system appears to be working no one has the political will to fix it, and now that it is broken it will be very hard to fix.

I do not agree with term limits as that further consolidates power in the executive.

That being said I agree with the rest of them except for the independent judge nomination process but that's because I don't think there's a way to make it actually independent and, more crucially, would remove the executive's check on the judiciary and the judiciary is already utterly out of control.

I agree with @K1052 - we should immediately pack the Supreme Court at the next opportunity. (assuming we still have a democracy in 2028) It's not just about improving the court, it's also about sending a message to the judiciary to learn their place.

 

[K1052]

I do not agree with term limits as that further consolidates power in the executive.

Yes, though I think we should have age limits for all branches of the government.

 

[fskimospy]

The first part of any such plan MUST be to pack the Supreme Court because you're going to run afoul of Major Questions Doctrine (we will do whatever the fuck we want and Congress cannot stop us).

Yes, the major questions doctrine and the overturning of Chevron have essentially made the courts a super-legislature that can rewrite laws however they want.

I do not think people fully appreciate just how insane our court system is about to become. Every law and every regulation is now open to being modified or abolished by some random judge in a small town in Texas, despite that judge having literally zero knowledge or expertise on the matter at hand.

 

[Brainonska511]

I do not agree with term limits as that further consolidates power in the executive.

That being said I agree with the rest of them except for the independent judge nomination process but that's because I don't think there's a way to make it actually independent and, more crucially, would remove the executive's check on the judiciary and the judiciary is already utterly out of control.

I agree with @K1052 - we should immediately pack the Supreme Court at the next opportunity. (assuming we still have a democracy in 2028) It's not just about improving the court, it's also about sending a message to the judiciary to learn their place.

A better judiciary check could be to make the supreme court very large, say 50 people, then change the rules on how cases get selected and heard. Pick 13 random ones to decide if a case should be heard, and then a different 13 to actually hear cases. It would significantly reduce the court's ability to cherry pick cases for partisan agendas.

 

[fskimospy]

A better judiciary check could be to make the supreme court very large, say 50 people, then change the rules on how cases get selected and heard. Pick 13 random ones to decide if a case should be heard, and then a different 13 to actually hear cases. It would significantly reduce the court's ability to cherry pick cases for partisan agendas.

Absolutely agree. I would also support selectively stripping the courts of jurisdiction on cases if they are unable to control themselves.