Trump fires groups responsible for calculating economic data

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outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
4,229
3,574
136
I had no idea these groups existed until I saw this thread.
After I finish the project I'm currently working on I'll look into this and try to figure out what those folks did.


what do you mean you know know there was a group that did this?

you posted a few years ago in a thread that was the topic.

how in the fuck dont you know about that group???


 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,104
17,906
136
Trump declares the American people do not need science, or economic data. Just do as your Emperor commands. With blind faith and total devotion to your false idol.
State media will tell you what to think. They already do, and Republican's empty heads just continue to fill with shit.

TRUMP NOM SUGGESTS JUNKING JOBS REPORT!
E.J. Antoni said the Bureau of Labor Statistics should suspend a monthly estimate that recently upset President Donald Trump.
Indeed...

why-do-you-lay-these-troubles-gr%C3%ADma-wormtongue.gif
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,085
6,344
136
what do you mean you know know there was a group that did this?

you posted a few years ago in a thread that was the topic.

how in the fuck dont you know about that group???


I was speaking about the two advisory groups, not the BLS.
The BLS jobs reports aren't worth the paper they're written on. The last report was off by a factor of 9. Someone pulled a number out of his ass and called it good.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,721
54,716
136
I was speaking about the two advisory groups, not the BLS.
The BLS jobs reports aren't worth the paper they're written on. The last report was off by a factor of 9. Someone pulled a number out of his ass and called it good.
The last report was not off by anywhere remotely close to that. (It was off by fractions of a percent)

You are so innumerate you don’t understand the reports you are reading.

Edit: although it is funny that the guy who built houses for a living decided that climate scientists are all wrong and BLS statisticians are all wrong. True Dunning-Krueger.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,419
1,924
126
I'm not totally sure what Greenman was asserting with his first response or subsequent in this thread.

But here's a taste of reality. You choose whether or not to believe what I tell you. I'm retired -- I have no reason to dissemble or lie.

I worked in "statistical shops" and in one way or the other during my CIVIL SERVICE CAREER. I don't care IN WHAT PARTY THE CIVIL SERVANTS ARE REGISTERED TO VOTE. THEY DON'T PHONY UP THE NUMBERS, and the numbers are collected systematically, from multiple sources -- often -- like different Fed regional offices, different government facilities, different states, etc.

HERE IS A TRUE STORY, THOUGH -- an anecdote -- anecdotal reality, not a statistical sample or tally. I had been working for a senior career employee who had earned a double PhD in statistics and evaluation, and who then earned a JD in law from U of Maryland. We had, for a period of about two years, worked on some government projects with William Edwards Deming, who was paid under contract.

This had been during Reagan. Later, political appointees just wanted to stir things up. This -- after we had done a stellar job providing statistical analysis for the Republican agency head in a landmark court case. We didn't care what party he belonged to -- we just wanted to collect honest statistical data, run it through the SAS and SPSS software provided on the agency's IBM 370, and be useful -- therefore contributing to our professional reputation for accuracy and INTEGRITY.

My colleague was moved into a position with the agency's research arm. We had lunch regularly. At one point, he told me this story as to how one of the GOP political appointees asked him if he could "do something" with the numbers that made the administration look good in the public eye. We thought the insinuation was to phony up some numbers and make up a story -- but as professionals, we're not going to do that sort of thing.

And this was "way back when"!

The sort of "phony number" exercise in Trump's imagination could not happen. They could surely make mistakes, and then correct them. I'm astounded by the paranoid imaginations of many, but particularly the delusions of He Who Has No Name.

Oh! The whole world is against me! They're conspiring to take me down and put me in jail! It's the Democrats! They're phonying up the numbers through the Career Service!

I'll tell you what needs to be done, and not to the civil service. But with this crowd, I don't want to attract attention. So I will just quietly go to church and pray to Jee-sus for an Elm Street and a fence on a knoll.

We're not even close to ending the first disastrous year of this criminal and incompetent administration. Anyone who doesn't think all this litigation and legislative dysfunction is an indication of a totally failed presidency and a totally failed political party -- well -- maybe they should take their heads out of the sewer of internet political babble and learn some things.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,491
9,711
136
This had been during Reagan. Later, political appointees just wanted to stir things up. This -- after we had done a stellar job providing statistical analysis for the Republican agency head in a landmark court case. We didn't care what party he belonged to -- we just wanted to collect honest statistical data, run it through the SAS and SPSS software provided on the agency's IBM 370, and be useful -- therefore contributing to our professional reputation for accuracy and INTEGRITY.
The absolute bedrock upon which a modern and successful industrious society is built.
Everything MAGA Nazis seek to destroy. And I fear, they have already done so.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,721
54,716
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The absolute bedrock upon which a modern and successful industrious society is built.
Everything MAGA Nazis seek to destroy. And I fear, they have already done so.
Yes. The fundamental point of civil service is to serve the country, not serve the administration.

While it is absolutely true that the civil service should act on the priorities of political leadership in well functioning societies they act as an independent check.

This is fundamentally the toxic, dictatorial end game of the unitary executive, which says the entire government should reflect the will of the president. This is incompatible with a democratic, civil society.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,419
1,924
126
The absolute bedrock upon which a modern and successful industrious society is built.
Everything MAGA Nazis seek to destroy. And I fear, they have already done so.
Yes. "Civilization". "Secular government". "Non-partisan Career Service".

They hope they can take down CIVILIZATION in a presidential term. If they don't, they are sure going to degrade it!

Nothing I can do will make the Democrats start filling Michelob bottles with gasoline and rags.

As for me -- "having nothing to lose?!" I'm too effing old, and it's a damn good excuse. The best I can do is donate money. A little here -- a little there.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,104
17,906
136
Yes. "Civilization". "Secular government". "Non-partisan Career Service".

They hope they can take down CIVILIZATION in a presidential term. If they don't, they are sure going to degrade it!

Nothing I can do will make the Democrats start filling Michelob bottles with gasoline and rags.

As for me -- "having nothing to lose?!" I'm too effing old, and it's a damn good excuse. The best I can do is donate money. A little here -- a little there.
They've already done lasting harm and caused the needless deaths of many people, but Greenman doesn't mind, all worth it to get immigrants out of the country and protect people from receiving gender affirming care that he doesn't believe in.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,739
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That is the end of reliable data and metrics from BLS

Next month job report will show we gain 10 million jobs and have an unemployment rate of 2000%

"Trump's pick for Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner suggests suspending monthly jobs report"

The BLS director did her job! She posted the numbers that were compiled as they’ve always been. Poor, little weak and insecure Trump needs everything to look perfect for his weak motherfucking self, even if the numbers are fake. Businesses are not going to be able to rely on his new suck-ups numbers, and therefore, they will slow down hiring, and most likely speed up job eliminations. Out of sight, out of mind. Controlling the jobs data means manipulating the jobs data. The data is the data.

When ratings agencies cannot trust the data they receive, they will downgrade our credit rating again.

Authoritarian regimes control government-produced economic data to manipulate public perception, suppress evidence of failure, and maintain political legitimacy. Here we are. This is now.

Trump never got over being rejected by La Cosa Nostra and it shows. Consolidate your lies - The Heritage Foundation/Project 2025.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,380
16,772
136
I was speaking about the two advisory groups, not the BLS.
The BLS jobs reports aren't worth the paper they're written on. The last report was off by a factor of 9. Someone pulled a number out of his ass and called it good.

Oh I’d love to hear why you think they are bs and explain to us all how the data is collected and why such a big correction was given. I’m sure you’ve fully researched this and can answer these simple questions. So how long should we wait for an answer? After all, nothing will shut up a liberal like contradicting facts that ruin their reality. So how about it? How is the data collected and why was there such a big correction?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,846
31,923
136
I was speaking about the two advisory groups, not the BLS.
The BLS jobs reports aren't worth the paper they're written on. The last report was off by a factor of 9. Someone pulled a number out of his ass and called it good.
Because the numbers aren’t good for the pedophile all of a sudden they are not reliable?

See what happens when you support kid sex traffickers. You lose what was left of your moral core
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,085
6,344
136
Oh I’d love to hear why you think they are bs and explain to us all how the data is collected and why such a big correction was given. I’m sure you’ve fully researched this and can answer these simple questions. So how long should we wait for an answer? After all, nothing will shut up a liberal like contradicting facts that ruin their reality. So how about it? How is the data collected and why was there such a big correction?

In August, the BLS revised May jobs numbers from 144,000 to 19,000 and June from 147,000 to 14,000. This indicates a fundamentally flawed method of information gathering. The data they're using is absolutely worthless, so the actual question is why do they keep using it? In any other information gathering industry everyone involved in a clusterfuck of that magnitude would be dismissed.
So instead of me telling you how the information is gathered, why don't you tell me how information that's off by 1000% has any value or use?
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
4,229
3,574
136
I was speaking about the two advisory groups, not the BLS.
The BLS jobs reports aren't worth the paper they're written on. The last report was off by a factor of 9. Someone pulled a number out of his ass and called it good.

uggg i got the 2 confused

but still .. cannot believe we had two of these issues so close together

i would say look at the common denominator.. trump
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
32,072
50,730
136

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,085
6,344
136
uggg i got the 2 confused

but still .. cannot believe we had two of these issues so close together

i would say look at the common denominator.. trump
Isn't the common denominator the people that gathered and assembled the information? Unless Trump outright told them to post fake numbers? If he did that, those would have been the best job numbers ever, cause the one thing Trump can't ever do is "subtle".
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,721
54,716
136
In August, the BLS revised May jobs numbers from 144,000 to 19,000 and June from 147,000 to 14,000. This indicates a fundamentally flawed method of information gathering. The data they're using is absolutely worthless, so the actual question is why do they keep using it? In any other information gathering industry everyone involved in a clusterfuck of that magnitude would be dismissed.
So instead of me telling you how the information is gathered, why don't you tell me how information that's off by 1000% has any value or use?
This is false, you just have no idea what you’re talking about. Amusingly enough someone this incompetent has decided he knows more than all climate scientists and BLS statisticians.

What the BLS ACTUALLY calculated for May was there were about 163,000,000 jobs, a number they revised by a fraction of a percent. Thats where all these numbers are derived from. Seems pretty accurate now, huh?

Now that you understand what was actually measured do you want to revise your opinion?

Similarly, now that you know you were off on CO2 numbers by 125,000% (literally) do you want to revise your opinion there?

Let me guess - no. Because facts don’t matter to you.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
4,229
3,574
136
Isn't the common denominator the people that gathered and assembled the information? Unless Trump outright told them to post fake numbers? If he did that, those would have been the best job numbers ever, cause the one thing Trump can't ever do is "subtle".

well with the firing of Erika McEntarfer... trump did praise her for some numbers when it benefited him then then the numbers did not he fired her. i dont see her has being political..

but it is not uncommon for numbers to change.

did you not see the presser with trump where they bring out "numbers that have never been seen before"?

yea..
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,380
16,772
136
In August, the BLS revised May jobs numbers from 144,000 to 19,000 and June from 147,000 to 14,000. This indicates a fundamentally flawed method of information gathering. The data they're using is absolutely worthless, so the actual question is why do they keep using it? In any other information gathering industry everyone involved in a clusterfuck of that magnitude would be dismissed.
So instead of me telling you how the information is gathered, why don't you tell me how information that's off by 1000% has any value or use?

lol so in other words you don’t know how the information is gathered and you don’t know why the information is revised and yet you somehow think that makes you qualified to proclaim that the system is flawed?

I can most definitely give the answers but why would you listen to me, you haven’t yet in the twenty plus years you’ve been on this forum.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,846
31,923
136
what do you mean you know know there was a group that did this?

you posted a few years ago in a thread that was the topic.

how in the fuck dont you know about that group???


Greenman like Trump is a liar
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,846
31,923
136
lol so in other words you don’t know how the information is gathered and you don’t know why the information is revised and yet you somehow think that makes you qualified to proclaim that the system is flawed?

I can most definitely give the answers but why would you listen to me, you haven’t yet in the twenty plus years you’ve been on this forum.
Whatever Trump says he agrees with
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,380
16,772
136
I strongly suspect if you use the search function you can find him having no problem with BLS numbers in the past.

The thing is the numbers now show bad things for Trump and so conservative media has instructed him to discount the numbers. As a good soldier he does what he’s told.
And they do it uncritically, which is why he refused to answer the questions I asked him.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,721
54,716
136
And they do it uncritically, which is why he refused to answer the questions I asked him.
It’s the same thing like in the climate change thread where he ignored the post proving him wrong in order to reply to someone else claiming he didn’t get anything wrong.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,085
6,344
136
well with the firing of Erika McEntarfer... trump did praise her for some numbers when it benefited him then then the numbers did not he fired her. i dont see her has being political..

but it is not uncommon for numbers to change.

did you not see the presser with trump where they bring out "numbers that have never been seen before"?

yea..
It's Trump, of course he canned her for making him look bad.
That still brings us to the crux of the issue, if the numbers can be off by a 1000%, why bother posting them? Clearly the data used is worthless, so what's the point of publishing the information? Any action taken based on worthless data has to be the wrong action.
Pull the plug on the entire operation, it's worthless.