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Trump falsely claims US murder rate is 'highest' in 47 years

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[DHT]Osiris said:
Was this ever proven scientifically? Or could it be a correlation factor, alongside population density (both lead concentration and murder rates may be attributable to this).

No criticisms, just curious.
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Studies of lead raising aggressive behavior in the past have been documented actually, I would have to look around for one.

Lead paint and leaded gasoline was not finally abolished for no reason.

Even when it was a well know fact, lead gasoline use in the US was encouraged when it was known to be a major health hazard.

Radioactive watches and things in general in many households were promoted in manufacturing, medicine, and common household items in the 50's in the US with little to no regulation att.

I'm still surprised how much unregulated made in china crap you see just sold over the counter at most local conveniece stores in my area with no regulation.
 
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HomerJS said:
Hey Doc,

Do you realize you've normalized Trump, lying on almost a daily basis. This is the reason you characterize others pointing these out as another "full blown outrage" moment.

Having a POTUS who lies so frequently should be a "full blown outrage moment". You've seem to have been beaten into submission by Trump.

The problem isn't us, its him.
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This is how it always goes. People progressively harden their positions when they feel attacked. Just watch the conservatives here go from 'this guy is horrible' to 'I mean I hate the guy too but I think he is okay on this one thing' to 'the real problem here is people on the left' in record time.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Even Politifact conflated cities with country in their title essentially conceding the difference as acceptably rhetorical. Boo hoo, he didn't precisely parse his words in a way that suits you. Waaah! The bottom line here is that the gist of what he was saying is obvious to anyone who's reasonably objective....he was clearly attempting to regurgitate his crime statistic schtick from when he was campaigning and mispoke rate vs. murders. OMG! The fucking sky is falling!
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"OMG! The fucking sky is falling!" is Donald's basic schtick. That's why people are so quick to throw it back in his face when he screws it up.

The sky is not falling no matter how badly Trump& Sessions want us to believe it is.

Crisis, you say? Trump *is* the crisis.
 
FelixDeCat said:
Every president does the same thing, including your hero Bronco.
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Really? When has any fairly current AG (since like 1990) claimed the homicide rate is climbing in a "dangerous permanent trend," as Sessions claimed, despite the FACT that the homicide rate has been falling steadily since the 1990's.

Some facts.....in 2015, there were 372.6 cases of violent crime reported per 100,000 people, according to the FBI. In 1992, there were 758.2 cases per 100,000 people. In 2008, the year before Barack Obama took office, the violent crime rate was 458.6 cases per 100,000 people. In 2009, the rate was 431.9.

"This is a dangerous permanent trend" — AG Sessions on growing crime rate.

Yeah, whatever Sessions.
 
Jaskalas said:
You are falsely claiming he stated a fact. He did not.
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What?

"“We have a crime problem,” Sessions said at the White House. “I wish the rise that we’re seeing in crime in America today was some sort of aberration or blip. My best judgment, having been involved in law enforcement for many years, is this is a dangerous permanent trend.”
 
Meghan54 said:
That's what you have, eh? Sessions, just as Trump does, is lying and running around like a chicken without a head, crying "The sky is falling," by claiming there's a "dangerous permanent trend" in the crime rate increasing, when in reality it's not. And that's like whom in recent memory, outside Trump, et al.?
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"I am your voice. I alone can fix it. I will restore law & order"

Whether it needs to be done or not. Be afraid! Only the Power of Trump can save you!
 
fskimospy said:
What on earth do you think he said then?
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"My best judgment, having been involved in law enforcement for many years, is this is a dangerous permanent trend.”​

Might as well read "IMO", or "I feel". It's a statement of subjective rationalization, not an objective fact.
Feel free to say he's full of !@#$ based on the numbers, but do not pretend Session's statement is a lie.

Moreover, when the greater subject has a "mostly true" rating in Trump's favor... time to rethink blindly following a pack of wolves. Once more Democrats are failing at signal to noise ratio. How many election losses will it take before real issues take precedence over mindless shrieking. Inner city crime is a real issue... you take a side on the subject to scoff at that, to pretend it's fine?

A real opposition to Trump would be speaking of solutions. Then you have something to campaign for, and voters have something to vote for. Simply being the party that attacks Republicans, going so far as to make fake headlines yourselves... I tell you that is a dark path. You can energize the nation towards solutions, or towards tearing each other apart in ever escalating rhetoric and use of force. If 2016 placed a child in office, where are the adults to hold America on a steady course? You stoop to his level and you'll be no better. And you'll do more damage by turning the Trump era a permanent era, where such consequences last far beyond his four years.

Think long and hard of the future you want, and make your campaign against Trump reflect that.
 
Jaskalas said:
"My best judgment, having been involved in law enforcement for many years, is this is a dangerous permanent trend.”​

Might as well read "IMO", or "I feel". It's a statement of subjective rationalization, not an objective fact.
Feel free to say he's full of !@#$ based on the numbers, but do not pretend Session's statement is a lie.
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Not really interested in hair splitting. He was clearly making a statement as to the state of crime. It was a lie.

Moreover, when the greater subject has a "mostly true" rating in Trump's favor... time to rethink blindly following a pack of wolves. Once more Democrats are failing at signal to noise ratio. How many election losses will it take before real issues take precedence over mindless shrieking. Inner city crime is a real issue... you take a side on the subject to scoff at that, to pretend it's fine?
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He most certainly does not have a 'mostly true' in his corner, he had that about one specific statement and numerous 'false' and 'pants on fire' statements about the same issue.

Crime, including crime in cities, is at historically low levels. This is an undeniable fact. Of course we could always do better, but that doesn't excuse Trump's and Sessions' lies about it.

A real opposition to Trump would be speaking of solutions. Then you have something to campaign for, and voters have something to vote for. Simply being the party that attacks Republicans, going so far as to make fake headlines yourselves... I tell you that is a dark path. You can energize the nation towards solutions, or towards tearing each other apart in ever escalating rhetoric and use of force. If 2016 placed a child in office, where are the adults to hold America on a steady course? You stoop to his level and you'll be no better. And you'll do more damage by turning the Trump era a permanent era, where such consequences last far beyond his four years.

Think long and hard of the future you want, and make your campaign against Trump reflect that.
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That's why we always stick to the facts and can't be afraid to call out lies like this. Trump has lied repeatedly and egregiously about the state of crime in the US, trying to craft a narrative of dystopian crime infested cities when crime has rarely been lower in US history.

You need to examine yourself and figure out why you're so uncomfortable with calling a spade a spade. You're just playing into their hands.
 
Playing into their hands is your zealous operanda of going non stop negative.
There's horrendous gun crime and murder in the inner cities, what are you going to do about it?
While Trump and company speak of solving it, you're too busy screaming how horrible they are.

And seeing as you double down when called out, it seems you've made your choice towards escalation.
And by "you", I mean a huge chunk of a political party thinks it's great to operate on Trump's level.
Higher ground, better policy? No one is going to hear it over the sound of thunder. Polarization sets in.
 
Creating an image of our nation being existentially threatened by the gays, the Muslims, the baby killing liberals, the black guy from Kenya who was secretly a communist and not a "real" American, murders skyrocketing and of course:

Trump: ...or you could accept the fact that our nation is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
The People: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Sessions: What he means is Old Testament, folks. Real wrath-of-God type stuff!
Trump: Exactly.
Conway: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Spicer: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes!
Trump: The dead rising from the grave!
Sessions: Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!

Sound familiar? Same ploy, same results 😉

It's just so sad that this kind of BS sells so well to those folks who adore Trump. In their eyes he can do no wrong.

Scary? Enough to make all of Trump's and the GOP's fear and hate tactics believable, apparently.

 
Jaskalas said:
Playing into their hands is your zealous operanda of going non stop negative.
There's horrendous gun crime and murder in the inner cities, what are you going to do about it?
While Trump and company speak of solving it, you're too busy screaming how horrible they are.

And seeing as you double down when called out, it seems you've made your choice towards escalation.
And by "you", I mean a huge chunk of a political party thinks it's great to operate on Trump's level.
Higher ground, better policy? No one is going to hear it over the sound of thunder. Polarization sets in.
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Sets in? It set in January 20th 2009. Where were you the last eight ears? Where were you rallying Republicans and those on the right who were cheering on obstruction at every turn and at all costs? Where were you when dems were trying to solve actual problems and not just talking about the problems? Where were you when any legislation that was passed, imperfect as it was, was being demonized by the right who never once thought about fixing the problems they had no problem pointing out?

I'll tell you where you were; you were that piece of shit poster, like so many on this forum who represent an even bigger population, who was complaining about both sides are the same, how both sides are corrupt, complaining how neither party cares about real Americans.

Were you one of the posters highlighting what good governess looks like when dems actually fixed the donut hole despite not having been the party that created the issue? Were you the poster telling everyone how when Obama and the dems reach out for compromise on health care reform that the Republicans should reciprocate and work with Democrats? Were you the poster that said Republicans should work with Obama on passing the badly needed infrastructure plan? Were you the poster, who when the senate came up with a bipartisan plan to actually address immigration reform, called upon the right leaning posters to embrace it and contact their representative to get the ball rolling in the house? Were you the poster who pleaded with the right to compromise for the good of the country, despite not agreeing 100% with the policies being put in place?

Because if you haven't been pushing that narrative for the last eight years, with all due respect, fuck off and fuck you and your moral high ground you god damn hypocrite!
 
Jaskalas said:
Playing into their hands is your zealous operanda of going non stop negative.
There's horrendous gun crime and murder in the inner cities, what are you going to do about it?
While Trump and company speak of solving it, you're too busy screaming how horrible they are.
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Sure murder and crime in some areas is bad, but it doesn't change the fact that it's lower now than it's been at almost any time in US history. This is a basic, inescapable fact. Trump isn't talking about solving it at all, by the way. Can you show me what solutions he has proposed?

And seeing as you double down when called out, it seems you've made your choice towards escalation.
And by "you", I mean a huge chunk of a political party thinks it's great to operate on Trump's level.
Higher ground, better policy? No one is going to hear it over the sound of thunder. Polarization sets in.
Click to expand...

You seem to mistake criticism of Trump's attempts to bring lies into the mainstream consciousness as 'escalation'. Look how well it worked on you; you're talking about crime as if it's this epidemic we've been confronted with as opposed to a problem that's always been with us but is now better under control than at basically any other time in modern history. It makes no sense.

As for polarization, it's already here, it's been here for a long time now, and sadly it is driven primarily by polarization of conservatives. This is a painful fact that you need to accept and again, this can be shown empirically. Conservatives didn't polarize because liberals said something mean, they did it all on their own. It's not up to liberals to stop calling out obvious lies until conservatives have their hurt feelings restored, it's up to conservatives to clean up their own mess.
 
fskimospy said:
Sure murder and crime in some areas is bad, but it doesn't change the fact that it's lower now than it's been at almost any time in US history. This is a basic, inescapable fact.
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As Chicago Murder Rate Spikes, Many Fear Violence Has Become Normalized
"It's terrible, let's fix it"
"!@#$ you"​

That pretty much sums up the topic.

fskimospy said:
Trump isn't talking about solving it at all, by the way. Can you show me what solutions he has proposed?
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Stop and frisk, "send in the feds"? You know... Trump should be challenged on the issues, and that's the whole point. Posters have gone so far as to dismiss the subject just because Trump spoke of it. Instead of discussing Chicago (inner cities) and solutions it's just more noise, more personalizing and calling him a lair. Pretty much the continuation of the 2016 !@#$show we called an election where the issues were set aside for attacking Trump.

If Trump's policy is a dumpster fire, and yours is sound and reasoned... why wouldn't you want to press him on policy?

fskimospy said:
You seem to mistake criticism of Trump's attempts to bring lies into the mainstream consciousness as 'escalation'.
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I'll repeat what I said on that.

You can energize the nation towards solutions, or towards tearing each other apart in ever escalating rhetoric and use of force. If 2016 placed a child in office, where are the adults to hold America on a steady course? You stoop to his level and you'll be no better. And you'll do more damage by turning the Trump era a permanent era, where such consequences last far beyond his four years.

Think long and hard of the future you want, and make your campaign against Trump reflect that.​
 
It's easy to see how fear drives many people's votes.

Here's the stock price of Hanesbrands Inc the makers of a lot of underwear.
HBI_STOCK.png


When people are afraid they shit their pants and have to buy new underwear driving business for Hanes

As you can see, fear began to ramp up around the time the Tea party became big. It peaked during the election as conservatives were shitting themselves from all the FUD being slung. It's dropping off now that the election is over and lip service is being paid to their fears.

/s

😛
 
Trump & Sessions merely pander to fear in their base. They sensationalize a blip in crime stats for political purposes.

They have no intention of addressing problem areas at all simply because having them is necessary to making their bullshit fly & because that's not where their voters live.
 
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