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Trump ends key insurance subsidies, vows to dismantle Obamacare

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Fanatical Meat said:
It's a fair point to have provided you are in the I got mine, get your own group.
Personally I don't like that view. Single payer systems are all cheaper than what we have and a great number have a much higher patient satisfaction rate. Why we continually ignore that route is something I just don't understand.
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We don’t all ignore it. Democrats have been salivating over it for half a century - it’s a massive growth in government size and power. Republicans are trying to ignore it because we disagree philosophically with it. The Pubbies are fooling themselves; there is no free market solution. The nearest thing would be a two-tiered system where every American is guaranteed basic health care, rationed by waiting queues and restrictions on expensive treatments, with a for-profit system on top for those who can afford it.

Sometimes in life we have to man up and admit that our preferred philosophy is not going to be the best solution, or even a workable solution, to every problem. If any one socioeconomic system was always superior, it would replaced all others.
 
So private insurance based health care system does not work? That's too bad. Well, we gave it a good college try, participation trophies all around.
 
bradly1101 said:
Lieberman I'm sure justifies this as instead of money, constituents were the main concern (since the ins. cos. headquarter in his state), but where do you draw the line between "It's good [very] locally (but powerfully)," and "It's bad for everyone else?" That's where I believe the money comes in to tip the moral scales.
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For at least the last dozen years of his Senate career it is safe to say Lieberman didn't give a flying F*** about his CT constituents. He was the defacto senator from Israel. And like I said earlier, all the other Dems from CT supported the ACA.
 
senseamp said:
So private insurance based health care system does not work? That's too bad. Well, we gave it a good college try, participation trophies all around.
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Please. The ACA has never been fully implemented & has been sabotaged by Repubs at every turn. It's obviously failing by being forced to fail. That's not to say that it's a greatest solution but rather that it never got the chance to work.

Anybody who thinks that we'll actually do better while Repubs occupy a blocking position is out of their mind & as delusional as the Repub base, just in a different way.

Going on about how the ACA doesn't work just plays into their hands.
 
Jhhnn said:
Please. The ACA has never been fully implemented & has been sabotaged by Repubs at every turn. It's obviously failing by being forced to fail. That's not to say that it's a greatest solution but rather that it never got the chance to work.

Anybody who thinks that we'll actually do better while Repubs occupy a blocking position is out of their mind & as delusional as the Repub base, just in a different way.

Going on about how the ACA doesn't work just plays into their hands.
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Regardless, clearly private health insurance doesn't work. The ACA was private insurance's best hope of being viable and useful and if it failed because of a lack of government intervention then its a failure in its own right.
 
ivwshane said:
Regardless, clearly private health insurance doesn't work. The ACA was private insurance's best hope of being viable and useful and if it failed because of a lack of government intervention then its a failure in its own right.
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Intervention by Repubs is what's causing it to fail, beginning with allowing states to opt out of the medicaid expansion, then moving on to refusal to make critical payments to insurers.

The ACA & the taxes that support it were a major defeat in the top down class warfare waged against the rest of America ever since Reagan. The Repub party has led the charge & they obviously won't hold back now. Dismantling the ACA will allow them to roll back those taxes & more.

Current levels of inequality aren't good enough for their financial backers. They want more & the delusional Repub base will vote for it every time cuz God, guns, gays, abortion, terrar, welfare queens, drug smuggling Mexican rapists & whatever else keeps 'em nutty enough to do so.
 
Jhhnn said:
Please. The ACA has never been fully implemented & has been sabotaged by Repubs at every turn. It's obviously failing by being forced to fail. That's not to say that it's a greatest solution but rather that it never got the chance to work.

Anybody who thinks that we'll actually do better while Repubs occupy a blocking position is out of their mind & as delusional as the Repub base, just in a different way.

Going on about how the ACA doesn't work just plays into their hands.
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The single payer part of ACA, Medicaid expansion, is working great, but the private market part is not. More single payer is the answer.
 
senseamp said:
The single payer part of ACA, Medicaid expansion, is working great, but the private market part is not. More single payer is the answer.
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Lack of Medicaid expansion in Red states negatively affects the perceptions of residents. It's a lot easier to accept paying a little more when impecunious friends, family, distant relatives & acquaintances get their bad knees & whatever fixed up under that part of the program. Otherwise it looks like you're just paying more for the same-old or less.

The reason why the exchange isn't working as well as intended in some places is mostly sabotage. It's Repub induced uncertainty for insurers- increased risk in terms of the bottom line- so they act accordingly.
 
werepossum said:
I don’t necessarily disagree with any of that factually. Politically, Obamacare has been in a death spiral since it’s inception. It is not sustainable, which is why we have these subsidies in the first place. By cutting off the subsidies, it isn’t dying because of Obama and the Democrats, it’s now dying because of Obama and the Democrats and Trump, and by extension the Republicans. That is insanely stupid.

Morally, removing these subsidies will remove health insurance from poor Americans. The individual policy market simply isn’t viable without them, and not even not-for-profits like BCBS will raise rates on highly competitive large group policies to subsidize individual policies. That’s why the Dems backdoored them in the first place. That is indefensible.
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It fails every time it's tried, this is no different.
 
Jhhnn said:
Lack of Medicaid expansion in Red states negatively affects the perceptions of residents. It's a lot easier to accept paying a little more when impecunious friends, family, distant relatives & acquaintances get their bad knees & whatever fixed up under that part of the program. Otherwise it looks like you're just paying more for the same-old or less.

The reason why the exchange isn't working as well as intended in some places is mostly sabotage. It's Repub induced uncertainty for insurers- increased risk in terms of the bottom line- so they act accordingly.
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Single payer part is working great everywhere it is tried. Private insurance parts only work when the single payer subsidizes them.
 
senseamp said:
Single payer part is working great everywhere it is tried. Private insurance parts only work when the single payer subsidizes them.
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As intended.

The chances of getting single payer with a Repub congress are zero. The chances of losing the huge improvement that the ACA really is are huge.
 
Jhhnn said:
As intended.

The chances of getting single payer with a Repub congress are zero. The chances of losing the huge improvement that the ACA really is are huge.
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Of course, but the bigger mess Republicans make, the bigger the Democrat mandate for single payer will be.
 
Jhhnn said:
So when do you figure that Dems will win the Presidency, the HOR & achieve a filibuster proof majority in the Senate?
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GOP gutted filibuster to install a SCOTUS judge, Dems can escalate and nuke it for universal single payer. Surely health care is more important than SCOTUS judges.
 
senseamp said:
GOP gutted filibuster to install a SCOTUS judge, Dems can escalate and nuke it for universal single payer. Surely health care is more important than SCOTUS judges.
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So, even allowing that, we're looking at late 2021 at the earliest, right?

In the meanwhile, just join the "tear it down!" chorus of the Repubs cuz "It ain't good enough!"
 
Let Republicans (and Bernieorbusters) suffer from what they voted for (or didn't vote against). I know Trump supporters on exchange plans. I will be sure to rub it in to them when their premiums soar.
 
Jhhnn said:
So, even allowing that, we're looking at late 2021 at the earliest, right?

In the meanwhile, just join the "tear it down!" chorus of the Repubs cuz "It ain't good enough!"
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I am not joining any chorus. GOP is gonna do what they are gonna do. We need to worry about what we are going to do when they are done.
 
senseamp said:
Let Republicans (and Bernieorbusters) suffer from what they voted for (or didn't vote against). I know Trump supporters on exchange plans. I will be sure to rub it in to them when their premiums soar.
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So, spite is the answer? Conservative tears?
 
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