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Trump Brussels Damage Report

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glenn1 said:
Actually I'd rather we just withdraw from NATO altogether. The "advantages" of having pledges from countries like Iceland to defend the U.S. in case of attack are pointless. And using NATO countries as staging bases to attack countries like Syria is an "advantage" we can/should do without as well as we shouldn't be doing that shit to begin with.
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I wonder if NATO provides value to the US (and the world) for things other than protecting the US from a conventional warfare attack that no one ever thought would actually come, even when NATO was drafted.

Maybe the people who drafted NATO had something else in mind. Naaaahhhhhhh.
 
cytg111 said:
I am in no way agreeing with Trump here, his ranting just accidently crossed one of my personal local geopolitical opinions... Screw Nordstream-2 .. That shit needs to get shut down. NOW.
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Greenman said:
If the other NATO members don't want to meet the guideline then the US should ignore it as well. I also question how much of a security concern it is if country's much closer to Russia aren't contributing their share.
Why should my tax dollars pay to protect a nation that spends it's tax dollars on health care and education? It's a great deal for them, not so much for the US.
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There is no set policy on NATO defence spending, so down to the individual countries, it will always be better to spend the money on schooling,hospitals etc, most countries prefer spending their money on better things, I wonder how Trump would react if the EU countries told him what to do with the US money, ie cut down on your military spending, use it on hospitals, schools and get YOUR bases out of our countries. End of the day he is out of line with telling them what to spend their money on.
 
fskimospy said:
I wonder if NATO provides value to the US (and the world) for things other than protecting the US from a conventional warfare attack that no one ever thought would actually come, even when NATO was drafted.

Maybe the people who drafted NATO had something else in mind. Naaaahhhhhhh.
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Yeah we get to sell some military hardware and get some ability to project force worldwide. Those aren't a value that IMHO find worth it.
 
glenn1 said:
Yeah we get to sell some military hardware and get some ability to project force worldwide. Those aren't a value that IMHO find worth it.
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I wonder if we get anything else from a stable Europe.

Also, exactly what do you think NATO costs us?
 
glenn1 said:
Yeah we get to sell some military hardware and get some ability to project force worldwide. Those aren't a value that IMHO find worth it.
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I actually question that aspect of the partnership. Sure, selling hardware to an ever-expanding captive market is great for our defense contractors and the Congress critters who take their money. But I can't really blame Russia for getting defensive when we allow a bunch of their former states to join, and then start talking about parking missile defense systems in their backyard.

I mean, if the Cold War was over, shouldn't NATO be downsizing (in terms of military hardware, troops, membership, $ expenditures) rather than expanding it like it did in the 90s and 2000s? We (NATO members) basically kept signalling to Russia that the Cold War isn't over, and they've reacted accordingly.
 
glenn1 said:
Actually I'd rather we just withdraw from NATO altogether. The "advantages" of having pledges from countries like Iceland to defend the U.S. in case of attack are pointless. And using NATO countries as staging bases to attack countries like Syria is an "advantage" we can/should do without as well as we shouldn't be doing that shit to begin with.
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Clearly you didn't read the information on Article 5 of NATO treaty either
 
Greenman said:
If the other NATO members don't want to meet the guideline then the US should ignore it as well. I also question how much of a security concern it is if country's much closer to Russia aren't contributing their share.
Why should my tax dollars pay to protect a nation that spends it's tax dollars on health care and education? It's a great deal for them, not so much for the US.
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Your country could spend way more on health care and education, it just chooses to throw it at billionaires and corporate welfare.
 
ewdotson said:
I consider this an insightful opinion piece on the utility of NATO. TLDR version: the things people are complaining about are by design and arguably America's greatest achievement.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/on-th...mp-has-pissed-away-the-pax-americana?ref=wrap
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Duh. America has been the largest beneficiary of globalism in the post WW2 era and yet, we have a non insignificant minority in this country who honestly believe America is constantly being "screwed" by the world. Hilarious.
 
fskimospy said:
Sounds great, I'm totally down with the US drastically reducing its military spending! You realize that the US isn't spending all that money on its military because of NATO guidelines, right?



You don't actually think the US spends all that money on its military out of the goodness of our hearts do you? We spend that money because it helps us project power and get what we want, not because we're some nice guy protecting other countries so they can go on vacation.
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You're correct that US defense spending has nothing to do with the defense spending of other NATO member nations, especially not under Trump. Trump has increased our spending not to make up for some supposed deficiency of other member nations, but because he thinks a larger military enlarges his dick. Just like he thinks "talking tough" to other nations, especially our allies, enlarges his dick. Trump wouldn't cut our spending by 1 penny if all other members tripled theirs tomorrow. This is all just more posturing for Trump's base.
 
fskimospy said:
I wonder if NATO provides value to the US (and the world) for things other than protecting the US from a conventional warfare attack that no one ever thought would actually come, even when NATO was drafted.

Maybe the people who drafted NATO had something else in mind. Naaaahhhhhhh.
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the farther we get from a real war the more closed minds there are to the risks and effects of it.
 
TheVrolok said:
Duh. America has been the largest beneficiary of globalism in the post WW2 era and yet, we have a non insignificant minority in this country who honestly believe America is constantly being "screwed" by the world. Hilarious.
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Those folks believe in and support an adulterating, narcissistic, ego-maniacal pathological liar, with a Repub controlled legislature that unquestioningly goes along with whatever he says and does, so there's nothing that would ever surprise me as far as what they believe their "leaders" are telling them. And who can blame them because their only other alternative is to join up with those godless, gun hating, gay loving heathen Democrats that are taking the nation down to the level of those shithole countries that are sending us their worst murderers and rapists, or so Trump says, so it must be true, right?

That the Repub Party has been taken over by a radicalized far right wing base and a President that exploits them to his heart's content is dangerous enough as it is, but we also have the more sane members of that party simply going along for the ride on the Crazy Train that Trump built and operates.

And they're telling the rest of us that that's the new normal and we all should get on board along with them because "it's the patriotic thing to do".

If I was a Bank and the Party of Trump was looking for a loan from me and I'd go look up their credit rating score, I guess you know what I'd tell them right? Exactly the same thing all those other American banks told Trump when he asked them for some help: "Go see the Russians, they're looking for guys just like yourself so they can do to you what you're trying to do to us." 😉
 
glenn1 said:
Actually I'd rather we just withdraw from NATO altogether. The "advantages" of having pledges from countries like Iceland to defend the U.S. in case of attack are pointless. And using NATO countries as staging bases to attack countries like Syria is an "advantage" we can/should do without as well as we shouldn't be doing that shit to begin with.
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World peace is shit to you I understand. Ok.
 
So if trump pulls troops from Europe and Korea what will he be doing with that about 100k force?
I cant see any president who makes 100k service men unemployed being particularly popular.
Will you just be stationing them in the US and paying them to march up and down? Because if you do that's not going to reduce your military budgets anyway.
 
Kerry speaks out about Trumps temper tantrum

36983013_2671894649497215_1057898771976814592_n.jpg
 
snoopy7548 said:
"Germany is captive of Russia"

*Goes and sucks Putin's dick*
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And the Repub Party folks are like "Well, you know, that's just Trump, he says things. Behind it all Trump is a geenyus Deal Maker and that's just part of his geenyus plan to MAGA. You wait and see............................Just you wait and see...............Any minute now..................Be patient, just give him the time he needs..........Any second now................heeeeeeeere he comes..................Now!............Aw shucks that wasn't it............OK, Now!..................Nope, hold on, just hold on................."
 
glenn1 said:
Actually I'd rather we just withdraw from NATO altogether. The "advantages" of having pledges from countries like Iceland to defend the U.S. in case of attack are pointless. And using NATO countries as staging bases to attack countries like Syria is an "advantage" we can/should do without as well as we shouldn't be doing that shit to begin with.
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comrade, your promotion will be coming soon.
 
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