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Trump being racist again. Immigrants "infest" the country

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a777pilot said:
LOL!

You call Trump and his supports Nazis but you have no idea what a Nazi really is. You need to study history. And, yes, illegal aliens do constitute an infestation.
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Hmm when you use a term to dehumanize a group of people, I believe there is a word for that...if only I coukd remember...
 
a777pilot said:
LOL!

You call Trump and his supports Nazis but you have no idea what a Nazi really is. You need to study history. And, yes, illegal aliens do constitute an infestation.
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You don't even realize you are a victim of Trump's gaslighting. You now consider all those people animals.
 
Jhhnn said:
Needs more straw.
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Was illegal immigration not the topic of Trumps tweet? Or did he say immigrants and I added the word illegal myself?

I’ve never had a single nice thing to say about Trump and hate him as much as, if not more than you. I know he is a racist, but that doesn’t mean every single thing he says is racist. I take the words at face value.
 
HomerJS said:
Why is it Republicans were so onboard when asylum seekers were coming from Cuba?
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Communist repression! Capitalist economic repression is different, of course.

They were down with keeping Elian Gonzales, too, even though his Cuban father wanted him back.
 
MooseNSquirrel said:
I'll take "whataboutism" for 1000$ Alex.
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That is not what that means fyi. The reason for the question is that I see that many are trying to argue that anything that takes away from a person's humanity is wrong no matter what. Those same people seem to dehumanize Nazis as if they are also not people. If the argument is that you should never dehumanize people no matter what, then Nazis are in that group. If that is not the argument then when is it okay to dehumanize.
 
realibrad said:
That is not what that means fyi. The reason for the question is that I see that many are trying to argue that anything that takes away from a person's humanity is wrong no matter what. Those same people seem to dehumanize Nazis as if they are also not people. If the argument is that you should never dehumanize people no matter what, then Nazis are in that group. If that is not the argument then when is it okay to dehumanize.
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Probably the same time its ok to call racists, racist.

Its fine if you want to defend racists and declare those who have been called out as the real victims. The rest of us though, well we realize there is a difference between calling out people based on their actions/policies and demonizing people in order to justify those same people's actions/policy.

You sound like uglycassanova and his inability to know and understand what racism is. If that's the look you are going for then you've reached your goal.
 
realibrad said:
That is not what that means fyi. The reason for the question is that I see that many are trying to argue that anything that takes away from a person's humanity is wrong no matter what. Those same people seem to dehumanize Nazis as if they are also not people. If the argument is that you should never dehumanize people no matter what, then Nazis are in that group. If that is not the argument then when is it okay to dehumanize.
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So what you're saying is that it's okay for Nazis to dehumanize people (because dehumanizing people is literally the heart and soul of the Nazi ideology), but when other people dehumanize Nazis, that's wrong and Nazis are the victims?
Gee, what's wrong with us? Why won't we just get out the way so the Nazis can carry out their agenda of murder and genocide? Why are the "tolerant liberals" so hypocritically intolerant of the fascists' criminal sociopathy, right?

Regardless of how tolerant a person is, it is always moral, ethical, and proper to be intolerant of evil. Always. In fact, it is immoral, unethical, and improper to be tolerant of evil. And make no mistake, Nazis are evil. Their only agendas are murder and death. The fascist does not consider himself free until he is free to rest his boot upon the necks of others. No moral or freedom-loving person should ever be tolerant of that.
 
ivwshane said:
Probably the same time its ok to call racists, racist.

Its fine if you want to defend racists and declare those who have been called out as the real victims. The rest of us though, well we realize there is a difference between calling out people based on their actions/policies and demonizing people in order to justify those same people's actions/policy.

You sound like uglycassanova and his inability to know and understand what racism is. If that's the look you are going for then you've reached your goal.
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Why are you trying to frame it as me saying racists are the real victims? Not only is calling out racists fine, its needed for a healthy society. I see no reason to dehumanize anyone be it MS13 or Nazis. It does not mean you treat those groups as normal people.
 
Vic said:
So what you're saying is that it's okay for Nazis to dehumanize people (because dehumanizing people is literally the heart and soul of the Nazi ideology), but when other people dehumanize Nazis, that's wrong and Nazis are the victims?
Gee, what's wrong with us? Why won't we just get out the way so the Nazis can carry out their agenda of murder and genocide? Why are the "tolerant liberals" so hypocritically intolerant of the fascists' criminal sociopathy, right?
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Tell me, do you hear voices in your head? I ask that because I asked if and when it was okay to dehumanize Nazis or anyone. You then posted a response to something I did not say. Do you have the delusions often?

Vic said:
Regardless of how tolerant a person is, it is always moral, ethical, and proper to be intolerant of evil. Always. In fact, it is immoral, unethical, and improper to be tolerant of evil. And make no mistake, Nazis are evil. Their only agendas are murder and death. The fascist does not consider himself free until he is free to rest his boot upon the necks of others. No moral or freedom-loving person should ever be tolerant of that.
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The execution of Nazis that murder people is fine by me. Calling out beliefs that are racist and dehumanizing is fine and needed. But do tell me, where you saw that I tried to make the Nazis the victims and when I said we should be tolerant of evil.
 
realibrad said:
Tell me, do you hear voices in your head? I ask that because I asked if and when it was okay to dehumanize Nazis or anyone. You then posted a response to something I did not say. Do you have the delusions often?

The execution of Nazis that murder people is fine by me. Calling out beliefs that are racist and dehumanizing is fine and needed. But do tell me, where you saw that I tried to make the Nazis the victims and when I said we should be tolerant of evil.
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realibrad said:
Those same people seem to dehumanize Nazis as if they are also not people. If the argument is that , then Nazis are in that group. If that is not the argument then when is it okay to dehumanize
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The argument was never presented that "you should never dehumanize people no matter what," except by you. And why did you choose to use that straw man to defend Nazis, I wonder?
Anyway, it is absolutely and always okay to be intolerant of people for their evil actions, or for their outspoken intent to commit evil actions.
 
Vic said:
The argument was never presented that "you should never dehumanize people no matter what," except by you. And why did you choose to use that straw man to defend Nazis, I wonder?
Anyway, it is absolutely and always okay to be intolerant of people for their evil actions, or for their outspoken intent to commit evil actions.
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Literally all of your questions were answered in the first post you responded to earlier today.

realibrad said:
That is not what that means fyi. The reason for the question is that I see that many are trying to argue that anything that takes away from a person's humanity is wrong no matter what. Those same people seem to dehumanize Nazis as if they are also not people. If the argument is that you should never dehumanize people no matter what, then Nazis are in that group. If that is not the argument then when is it okay to dehumanize.
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Do you realize how silly that is, that you would ask why when it was literally answered in the post that got you to talk to me about this topic?
 
Sheik Yerbouti said:
considering their behavior and outlook towards others, fuck yes.
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Good, this question was for people like you so I could understand your position.

Part of what makes Nazis such a danger to the world is that they dehumanize people, well in my opinion anyway. Do you believe that dehumanizing people puts someone down the same path, or is there a way to dehumanize people that is not intrinsically immoral? I ask because it seems like its taking a page from their book when people do it.

The reason I care is that we seem to be in a very heightened political time where people are looking for tools to "win". I believe this is a big part of how Trump won, because the Right did not care who they elected so long as their side won. Not caring about the implications and repercussions leads to things like Trump, and I worry that its spreading.
 
realibrad said:
That is not what that means fyi. The reason for the question is that I see that many are trying to argue that anything that takes away from a person's humanity is wrong no matter what. Those same people seem to dehumanize Nazis as if they are also not people. If the argument is that you should never dehumanize people no matter what, then Nazis are in that group. If that is not the argument then when is it okay to dehumanize.
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When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world
 
realibrad said:
Good, this question was for people like you so I could understand your position.

Part of what makes Nazis such a danger to the world is that they dehumanize people, well in my opinion anyway. Do you believe that dehumanizing people puts someone down the same path, or is there a way to dehumanize people that is not intrinsically immoral? I ask because it seems like its taking a page from their book when people do it.

The reason I care is that we seem to be in a very heightened political time where people are looking for tools to "win". I believe this is a big part of how Trump won, because the Right did not care who they elected so long as their side won. Not caring about the implications and repercussions leads to things like Trump, and I worry that its spreading.
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honestly, its as simple as nazi's are very bad people with dangerous ideologies that should not be tolerated. If any of that is untrue, please point it out, because that's what nazi's say about jews, gays, muslims, they are very dangerous and should not be tolerated, yet, that's an inherently false premise.

ALL nazi's are bad. Every last fucking one of them. Same for klansmen. So if you're under either tent, you're going to be called on your shit and taken to task for siding with genocidal ideologies.

Does that help explain it?? And why the fuck does anyone need to explain why nazis or klansmen are horrible, ignorant, violent, dangerous scum of the earth?
 
MooseNSquirrel said:
When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

You forgot the first part.

Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.
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For me to be doing that, I would need to be discrediting someone, but I'm not. I see a conflict so I'm inquiring. Whataboutism is not asking what about in general, its asking about something else to discredit another position without actually discrediting the position.
 
Sheik Yerbouti said:
honestly, its as simple as nazi's are very bad people with dangerous ideologies that should not be tolerated. If any of that is untrue, please point it out, because that's what nazi's say about jews, gays, muslims, they are very dangerous and should not be tolerated, yet, that's an inherently false premise.

ALL nazi's are bad. Every last fucking one of them. Same for klansmen. So if you're under either tent, you're going to be called on your shit and taken to task for siding with genocidal ideologies.

Does that help explain it?? And why the fuck does anyone need to explain why nazis or klansmen are horrible, ignorant, violent, dangerous scum of the earth?
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So, does it matter what they have done beyond being a Nazi? For example, would it be reasonable to put every Nazi in jail? Is there any nuance when dealing with Nazis or is it a one size fits all response, and what would that response be?

*I will add that Nazis ideas are very much dangerous. I did not say that as I assume its obvious, but Ill signal my position now.
 
realibrad said:
So, does it matter what they have done beyond being a Nazi? For example, would it be reasonable to put every Nazi in jail? Is there any nuance when dealing with Nazis or is it a one size fits all response, and what would that response be?

*I will add that Nazis ideas are very much dangerous. I did not say that as I assume its obvious, but Ill signal my position now.
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you mean something along the lines of
"wow, that nazi is so nice, look at him volunteering at a christian youth center"?
And it's not like being a nazi or a klansmen is a weekend hobby or something. Are you actually defending nazis or klansmen here?
 
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