Trump and his understanding and or relationship with evil

[HomerJS]

YAIDUTSINSTE
Yet another I don't understand Trump so I need someone to explain.

Yesterday I heard for the third time Trump make a moral equivalence with what I consider pure evil.

1. Bill O'Reilly reminding him Putin is a murderous dictator that has his political opponents and journalists killed. Trump's response, "America has done worse".

2. Nazis marching in Charlottesville. Trump response, "very fine people on both sides"

3. A recent interview aboard AF1 concerns were raised about Kim Jong Un's human rights record when it comes to murders and executions. Trump's response "I understand Kim" and "so have a lot of other people done some really bad things"

While understanding in cases 1,3 he is "technically correct" but what problem does Trump have with an unequivocal denunciation of evil? His response seems to be oh well everybody does it so what do you want from me.

I freely admit I don't understand that kind of attitude, especially coming from a POTUS. It may take a Trump supporter to explain this to me. Does Trump have a lack of understanding evil when he sees it? Is he evil himself therefore in his mind everybody does it. Does he consider calling out pure evil a waste of his time? I really can't think of any other possibilities.

I'm asking for assistance because clearly I don't have the intellect or moral clarity to understand.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

A racist mysogonist bigoted old man has a problem with moral equivalency and this surprises you?

 

[TheVrolok]

A racist mysogonist bigoted old man has a problem with moral equivalency and this surprises you?

This. I mean it's really not that complicated. Trump is an extreme egocentric narcissist. He views reality through a lense of how it personally impacts him. These dictators have never done anything negative to him (in fact some have lavished praise upon him, which he absolutely loves) so it's really easy for him to set aside the negative behaviors. He's literally incapable of feeling badly for others.

 

[glenn1]

I see progressives have switched from mocking American exceptionalism and recoiling in horror fearing nuclear war when Reagan called the Soviets an “evil empire” to pearl clutching when current POTUS adopts their former language. I thought you were the nuance side and hated when people like Dubya did stuff like the “Axis of Evil”.

 

[pmv]

I see progressives have switched from mocking American exceptionalism and recoiling in horror fearing nuclear war when Reagan called the Soviets an “evil empire” to pearl clutching when current POTUS adopts their former language. I thought you were the nuance side and hated when people like Dubya did stuff like the “Axis of Evil”.

The only one I see having trouble with nuance is you in this very comment.

Politics is complicated though. Trump isn't Reagan, that's for sure. The kind of 'right' he represents is different. It's mutated as conditions have changed.

 

[IJTSSG]

I see progressives have switched from mocking American exceptionalism and recoiling in horror fearing nuclear war when Reagan called the Soviets an “evil empire” to pearl clutching when current POTUS adopts their former language. I thought you were the nuance side and hated when people like Dubya did stuff like the “Axis of Evil”.

Careful, the ink isn't dry on today's talking points. They haven't had time to discuss how they're going to respond when someone points out their hypocrisy.

 

[brycejones]

I see progressives have switched from mocking American exceptionalism and recoiling in horror fearing nuclear war when Reagan called the Soviets an “evil empire” to pearl clutching when current POTUS adopts their former language. I thought you were the nuance side and hated when people like Dubya did stuff like the “Axis of Evil”.

Are you even posting in the correct thread or were you just going for a general shit post?

 

[HomerJS]

I see progressives have switched from mocking American exceptionalism and recoiling in horror fearing nuclear war when Reagan called the Soviets an “evil empire” to pearl clutching when current POTUS adopts their former language. I thought you were the nuance side and hated when people like Dubya did stuff like the “Axis of Evil”.

Praising murderous dictators as a great guys has never been language of the left. Obama advocated talking with enemies, Fox News and all the rigities had a collective bird then flip-flopped for Trump. Human rights has never been a concern of neocons and their ilk.

Problem with Trump he wanted to walk in, get his photo ops, claim mission accomplished and go home with total credit without doing any work. He's leaving it up to Pompeo to start the heavy lifting. Feel free to point out exactly where I'm wrong on this.

 

[Moonbeam]

Are you even posting in the correct thread or were you just going for a general shit post?

I thought glenn1 made a valid point so far to which no sufficient rebuttal has been made. Trumps facility in handling moral ambiguities connects quite closely, I think, to why I knew he would win his primary. He is not morally conflicted more is he concerned about what other people think of him.

This is a characteristic of the conservative brain most conservatives have tended for fear of raising moral scandal to suppress. The current breakdown in moral inhibitions accompanying the onset of mass psychosis, owing to stupendous victories by conservatives at the polls, have created conditions for this moral clarity to flower. Trump and Trunp supporters know what is best and know also it is best to maintain that power to execute it come hell or high water. When liberals ask what the f is going on, they should also know they can’t really comprehend the answer. The answer is in a part of human consciousness they can’t access because of lack of self awareness.

 

[HomerJS]

I thought glenn1 made a valid point so far to which no sufficient rebuttal has been made. Trumps facility in handling moral ambiguities connects quite closely, I think, to why I knew he would win his primary. He is not morally conflicted more is he concerned about what other people think of him.

This is a characteristic of the conservative brain most conservatives have tended for fear of raising moral scandal to suppress. The current breakdown in moral inhibitions accompanying the onset of mass psychosis, owing to stupendous victories by conservatives at the polls, have created conditions for this moral clarity to flower. Trump and Trunp supporters know what is best and know also it is best to maintain that power to execute it come hell or high water. When liberals ask what the f is going on, they should also know they can’t really comprehend the answer. The answer is in a part of human consciousness they can’t access because of lack of self awareness.

Using a metaphor to answer the question, is it ok to beat your wife because you bought her a house?"

If I'm wrong correct me on the answer to the OP. I've already conceded I don't understand. You can provide the answer and then let's see if I can comprehend.

 

[Greenman]

YAIDUTSINSTE
Yet another I don't understand Trump so I need someone to explain.

Yesterday I heard for the third time Trump make a moral equivalence with what I consider pure evil.

1. Bill O'Reilly reminding him Putin is a murderous dictator that has his political opponents and journalists killed. Trump's response, "America has done worse".

2. Nazis marching in Charlottesville. Trump response, "very fine people on both sides"

3. A recent interview aboard AF1 concerns were raised about Kim Jong Un's human rights record when it comes to murders and executions. Trump's response "I understand Kim" and "so have a lot of other people done some really bad things"

While understanding in cases 1,3 he is "technically correct" but what problem does Trump have with an unequivocal denunciation of evil? His response seems to be oh well everybody does it so what do you want from me.

I freely admit I don't understand that kind of attitude, especially coming from a POTUS. It may take a Trump supporter to explain this to me. Does Trump have a lack of understanding evil when he sees it? Is he evil himself therefore in his mind everybody does it. Does he consider calling out pure evil a waste of his time? I really can't think of any other possibilities.

I'm asking for assistance because clearly I don't have the intellect or moral clarity to understand.

Maybe he just doesn't care.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Trump isn't immoral, he's amoral. There is no "good" nor "evil". These are things that are as incomprehensible to him as fire is to water. What is he? Ego, and his one-word precept is "me". It's not that he disregards or embraces right or wrong, but that they are fundamentally alien and irrelevant concepts he cannot grasp. He's a like a destructive force of nature, a storm that has no sense of who it should strike or spare.

 

[Moonbeam]

Trump isn't immoral, he's amoral. There is no "good" nor "evil". These are things that are as incomprehensible to him as fire is to water. What is he? Ego, and his one-word precept is "me". It's not that he disregards or embraces right or wrong, but that they are fundamentally alien and irrelevant concepts he cannot grasp. He's a like a destructive force of nature, a storm that has no sense of who it should strike or spare.

I disagree with the no sense part as like a storm. It is just the opposite in my opinion. He knows exactly what is best instinctively and thoughtlessly. To you that would look random because you do not wield the magic.

 

[Moonbeam]

I disagree with the no sense part as like a storm. It is just the opposite in my opinion. He knows exactly what is best instinctively and thoughtlessly. To you that would look random because you do not wield the magic.

Using a metaphor to answer the question, is it ok to beat your wife because you bought her a house?"

If I'm wrong correct me on the answer to the OP. I've already conceded I don't understand. You can provide the answer and then let's see if I can comprehend.

Can you carry the one ring of power? Can you throw in in the fire. The ring has two aspects. What it does to you with regards to how you look to others and what satisfactions it brings. One is very much to be feared and the other the root of ego desire. Who is he who has lost all fear?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I disagree with the no sense part as like a storm. It is just the opposite in my opinion. He knows exactly what is best instinctively and thoughtlessly. To you that would look random because you do not wield the magic.

I think you are right. Ego would provide a direction. Perhaps a self-serving storm in that caring about the consequences for others would not occur to it or Trump. The wind rages and it has a direction but what it wounds and wrecks is meaningless to it.

 

[thraashman]

Trump has shown the true colors of what American conservatism has become. They are the Nazi party of the early 1930's. They need to be stopped now before they become the Nazi party of the late 1930's/1940's

 

[MrSquished]

I think you are right. Ego would provide a direction. Perhaps a self-serving storm in that caring about the consequences for others would not occur to it or Trump. The wind rages and it has a direction but what it wounds and wrecks is meaningless to it.

As he said to Jerry Jones on the NFL anthem protest thing that he would win that thing, he needed it because it would 'lift him' with his base.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think you are right. Ego would provide a direction. Perhaps a self-serving storm in that caring about the consequences for others would not occur to it or Trump. The wind rages and it has a direction but what it wounds and wrecks is meaningless to it.

There are two ways in which morality develops in a person’s inner being. One is through fear of being punished for moral deviation and the other via contentiously applied empathy that brings a sense of self satisfaction that can’t be bettered.. the first is conditioned morality transmitted via so called moral authorities and the other arises out of love and self respect. The first belongs to the category of bigotry and machine behavior and the second to being real. Moral values based on tradition, propaganda, psyhcological manipulation and fear turn us into soulless machines, like Christian soldiers marching off to war.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I freely admit I don't understand that kind of attitude, especially coming from a POTUS. It may take a Trump supporter to explain this to me. Does Trump have a lack of understanding evil when he sees it? Is he evil himself therefore in his mind everybody does it. Does he consider calling out pure evil a waste of his time? I really can't think of any other possibilities.

I'm asking for assistance because clearly I don't have the intellect or moral clarity to understand.

I am no Trump supporter, but I think I have an explanation. This is moral relativism taken to it's logical extreme. He can't blame a ruthless dictator of human rights violations because someone somewhere has done something worse.

When Republicans accuse someone else of something it is because they see it in themselves and are projecting.

Edit: I should mention that it is all self serving, Trump believes whatever is most beneficial to Trump at any given time. He is the ultimate person of flexible morality.

 

[Commodus]

I see progressives have switched from mocking American exceptionalism and recoiling in horror fearing nuclear war when Reagan called the Soviets an “evil empire” to pearl clutching when current POTUS adopts their former language. I thought you were the nuance side and hated when people like Dubya did stuff like the “Axis of Evil”.

Only it's not a change in tone.

We believe in nuance and refusing to needlessly provoke geopolitical rivals, but we also don't think you should praise and get cozy with a dictator who has his political opponents tortured and killed on a regular basis. There's an in-between where you can strive toward peace without cheerleading for someone who commits atrocities, as Trump is doing.

 

[Moonbeam]

Using a metaphor to answer the question, is it ok to beat your wife because you bought her a house?"

If I'm wrong correct me on the answer to the OP. I've already conceded I don't understand. You can provide the answer and then let's see if I can comprehend.

Conservatives require moral certainty, a lack and white view of the world because their moral values are maintained by group reward. The aim of their moral actions are not based on an understanding of what really is the good, but on obtaining moral approval from their group. They are the Borg and their moral aim is to assimilate. This is abhorrent to liberal thinking, but sadly turns liberals into the same thing. This becoming what we hate, abhor, creates a schism in the self, an unwillingness to see the nature of the other for fear of seeing it in the self. This ego protective measure can be bridged only by the loss of ego self respect. The monsters we see out there are the monsters we are ourselves. Who wants to do that?

 

[Noah Abrams]

I think this lack of understanding is due to the fact that we have been brainwashed to believe we are the "good" or at least the "better" vs the evil other. Vile one has done away with those pretensions and in that sense there is this honesty about it.

 

[dank69]

I think this lack of understanding is due to the fact that we have been brainwashed to believe we are the "good" or at least the "better" vs the evil other. Vile one has done away with those pretensions and in that sense there is this honesty about it.

Done away with them? You don't think the minute a Democrat is in power that conservatives will once again act like any talk with a dictator is basically treason?

 

[Noah Abrams]

Done away with them? You don't think the minute a Democrat is in power that conservatives will once again act like any talk with a dictator is basically treason?

They will. But for now the pretensions have been done away with basically. Which I think is unsettling to many, because from the earliest stage in America, the supposed goodness of America vs the world is drilled into us. Which is in itself necessary because we are such a big force of evil in the world and have been for ages. You can't really do such vile things as we do without believing you are good.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'm of two minds on this one. On the one hand, Trump's comment is justifiable as diplomatic pragmatism. When a reporter asks a question designed to elicit a critical comment about a foreign leader you are right in the middle of a sensitive negotiation with, it's understandable to not take the bait and say the critical thing. Remember when Castro died and Obama issued a neutral public statement like, "some people have positive feelings about Castro and some people have negative feelings?" The right freaked out over that, but Obama was in the midst of trying to improve relations with Cuba and he wasn't going to say anything to jeopardize that.

On the other hand, I am greatly unsettled by Trump's constant use of moral equivalencies, whether real or false, to justify and excuse the vile behavior of dictators. His whataboutism excuses are eerily parallel to the rhetoric used by the American right to justify and excuse his own deplorable behavior.

I guess I would say that in theory he has a valid reason for not wanting to publicly criticize Kim at this moment in time, but his pattern of cozying up to dictators - while feuding with democratic allies - is nonetheless alarming.