Trump against using covert intelligence sources on hostile foreign powers

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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What in the everloving fuck?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/politics/donald-trump-foreign-spies-skeptical/index.html

In addition to his fear such foreign intelligence sources will damage his relationship with foreign leaders, Trump has expressed doubts about the credibility of the information they provide. Another former senior intelligence official told CNN that Trump "believes they're people who are selling out their country."

Even in public, Trump has looked down on these foreign assets, as they are known in the intelligence community. Responding to reports that the CIA recruited Kim Jong Un's brother as a spy, Trump said he "wouldn't let that happen under my auspices."
Human intelligence is some of the most valuable and difficult intelligence to come by and our lack of it in the early 2000's is one of the principal reasons why US intelligence on Iraq's capabilities was so wrong. (Dick Cheney didn't help) Refusing to use human intelligence against hostile foreign countries that are most certainly employing them against us shows either that Trump is a moron and doesn't understand intelligence or that he's so corrupt he's afraid of what these unregulated sources will reveal.

Okay, it could be both.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
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Simply put the Intelligence Agencies are telling Trump things he doesn't want to hear, so he attacks the source. Either that or Trump is intentionally undermining our intelligence agencies on behalf of Russia. I prefer to believe the former, because I don't want to consider the other.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Simply put the Intelligence Agencies are telling Trump things he doesn't want to hear, so he attacks the source. Either that or Trump is intentionally undermining our intelligence agencies on behalf of Russia. I prefer to believe the former, because I don't want to consider the other.
I am struggling to think of a non-insane, non-corrupt reason why Trump would decide we shouldn't use human intelligence against say, North Korea, Iran, and Russia, three countries that are absolutely cultivating human intelligence against us.

I guess your explanation falls on Team Insane.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
10,134
1,670
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Time and again Trump's actions have directly benefited Putin.

Time and again Trump's supporters completely, mysteriously, incredulously ignore these blatant examples of why "their" president is a direct threat to the security of the nation.

Instead, time and again we get to hear their all purpose and nebulously vague brush off from them: "He's doing a really great job" without ever explaining why that is.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
96,892
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Kleptocracy in action. ...one of many examples.

And the rubes eat it up, which is the only way it survives.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
11,890
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I am struggling to think of a non-insane, non-corrupt reason why Trump would decide we shouldn't use human intelligence against say, North Korea, Iran, and Russia, three countries that are absolutely cultivating human intelligence against us.

I guess your explanation falls on Team Insane.
Don't get me wrong, all the possible explanations are either insane or corrupt, and all the likely ones are both.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
20,317
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If it walks like a traitor, acts like a traitor and tweets like a traitor...
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
23,871
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I am struggling to think of a non-insane, non-corrupt reason why Trump would decide we shouldn't use human intelligence against say, North Korea, Iran, and Russia, three countries that are absolutely cultivating human intelligence against us.

I guess your explanation falls on Team Insane.
Don't get me wrong, all the possible explanations are either insane or corrupt, and all the likely ones are both.
You guys are both forgetting Team Stupid
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
63,798
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You guys are both forgetting Team Stupid
To be fair my OP mentioned the possibility that Trump is a moron but I'm kind of lumping that in with Team Insane because the level of stupidity required to think this way is probably indistinguishable from some other form of mental impairment.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
12,771
2,361
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I think after the US and UK's respective derpy eras are over, some pretty hard-core new laws are going to be put in place to balance the countries against the level of maliciousness and corruption that their respective governments have subjected them to lately.

I hope that history gets a chance to look back on this era and ROFL at just how freaking unbelievably stupid/indifferent our respective populations generally have to be to not be marching on our freaking capitals to protest this shit. People like BJ and Trump should be afraid to go outside in case they get an earful or an egg in the face.
 

woolfe9998

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2013
8,517
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Be aware that any humint assets we have to pull out of any country because of Trump can't simply be put back in when Trump is out office. It takes years to develop these sources and after they leave, they're blown.
 

Juiblex

Member
Sep 26, 2016
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Human intelligence is some of the most valuable and difficult intelligence to come by and our lack of it in the early 2000's is one of the principal reasons why US intelligence on Iraq's capabilities was so wrong.
We knew very well what Saddam had or didn't have. What the government told the people, that's another story.

Long story short. The reason we blew up Iraq is because Saddam was sending $50,000 to families of Palestinian suicide bombers. Nothing more. Nothing less. It was for the safety of Israel.

Getting people to be ok with bombing Iraq over that though... That's another story... That requires 9/11, and WMD and other nonsense. Which is why all that intelligence in the end didn't matter. It's not about intelligence, it's about persuading public opinion.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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We knew very well what Saddam had or didn't have. What the government told the people, that's another story.

Long story short. The reason we blew up Iraq is because Saddam was sending $50,000 to families of Palestinian suicide bombers. Nothing more. Nothing less. It was for the safety of Israel.

Getting people to be ok with bombing Iraq over that though... That's another story... That requires 9/11, and WMD and other nonsense. Which is why all that intelligence in the end didn't matter. It's not about intelligence, it's about persuading public opinion.
Have you read the NIE? Its principal conclusions are declassified and publicly available. I’ve personally spoken to some of the (many) people involved in its creation about it and to put it very mildly I sincerely doubt that they were part of some wide-ranging conspiracy. In short we lacked good human intelligence so the community relied too much on a few sources and other intelligence.

Now I do believe that bad actors in the US government took hold of this ambiguity and poor intelligence situation and used it as an excuse to launch the Iraq War for one of any number of reasons, but that has little to do with the NIE. After all, Bush didn’t even ask for it - congressional Democrats did.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Political foes are Trump's enemies. Unlike his chums Putin and Kim.
This is something people really need to understand better. The people and entities that Trump considers enemies are things opposed to Trump, not things opposed to the US. He only cares about the US as far as it does things for him. This is why he welcomed Russian interference on his behalf in the past and why he will do nothing to stop it in the future no matter how bad the consequences for the country.

He simply doesn’t give a shit about anything but himself. If in order to save himself he has to burn the entire US down, including all of his supporters, he would do it in a second.
 

PJFrylar

Senior member
Apr 17, 2016
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He doesn't even trust our own intelligence sources unless they tell him what he already thinks. He himself has said he doesn't see the need to keep up with the daily intelligence briefings. The dude doesn't want to do any of the actual work of being president, he just wants to hold more campaign rallies to fluff his ego.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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CNN still butthurt over the CIA directly contradicting their previous story, so this is the new garbage the come up with. This is not news, this is leftist tabloid fodder.
 

woolfe9998

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2013
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CNN still butthurt over the CIA directly contradicting their previous story, so this is the new garbage the come up with. This is not news, this is leftist tabloid fodder.
You already said essentially this up thread. Given the sources you rely upon, you're the last person to judge source credibility.
 

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