trouble with 8 year old

[Kristi2k]

Originally posted by: NOLOVE
You ARE a heartless prick that DID beat a child. If you slap your wife she's going to let it go because "it was just a spanking" right? Or is it the humility of a nude child over your lap that satisfies you? You're stuck either way... you physically harmed him and humiliated him.

Wow, what a load of new-age crap. I was spanked bare bottomed by hand and stick. I'm not a freak or a punk. If I had never been spanked when young I would of been like all of the ""ADHD"" kids out there. Spair the rod and spoil the child.

Now you should not just spank the child, but you should explain after why and that you love them but every decision has a consequence.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: vood0g
you say that a child is capable of understanding what you say. i do agree with that to some extent. but do you really think a child will always understand your view? and if they dont then what? you will continue to let them act out just because they dont understand why what they are doing is wrong?

i look at teenagers and i see they are doing the dumbest sh1t possible. yet they think its ok to do it. parents try to explain to them its wrong, but yet they still do it. even adults have the same problems sometimes. you come to ATOT and u will see at least 10 threads with some asshat going off on something stupid. older people have reasoning problems and you can actually sit there and say that you can always talk to your kids without smacking them.

once talking doesnt work, then it's time to spank them just to keep them in line. the fear of pain can get most children to stop what they are doing. tell your kids to stop jumping on the bed because they may fall and hurt themselves. they will still do it. tell them if they jump on the bed and hurt themselves and you will have to take them to the doctor and they will stop. why? they know a doctor is a scary/painful person to see. children's minds as complex and smart as people say they are still function on a very simple basis. there are just some concepts that they can not grasp.

No, a child will not always understand the complete why behind EVERYTHING. A 4 yr-old won't be able to fully grasp the concept of getting hit by a car may equal death. But the fear of physical pain isn't the only way. It's probably the swiftest way that requires the least amount of effort from the parent, and that's about it. (vood0g, judging by your "shut the hell up/piece of shit" and earlier obdiance comments, I get the impression that's pretty much what you are looking for... A quick method to get the kids in line. No matter what.

I'm not even sure you've considered other methods. Spanking is what you know, most likely how you learned, and that's the way it is. Period. (Correct me if I am wrong.)

Ask yourself... If it is the only way, and as "necessary" as many have said. Then why are there so many well behaved kids who have never been spanked?

And who's to say that the teen and adult asshats weren't spanked? And why would you say that if you don't hit your kid, the only other option is to allow them to continue to act out? These are conclusions you are reaching with no supporting data.

you can actually sit there and say that you can always talk to your kids without smacking them.

Yes, I can. As do many, many others. And yes, very successfully.

 

[ribbon13]

This thread was takin over by quotes. Argh.

For extreme pain with no danger of lasting damage I'd reccomend a tens wand. At lower settings its great for stimulating a woman in bursts more intense than a sybian.


This is a great world we live in. Most kids that age are into videogames and tv. Things that take electricity.

Solution --> Breaker box.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: Kristi2k
Wow, what a load of new-age crap. I was spanked bare bottomed by hand and stick. I'm not a freak or a punk. If I had never been spanked when young I would of been like all of the ""ADHD"" kids out there. Spair the rod and spoil the child.

Now you should not just spank the child, but you should explain after why and that you love them but every decision has a consequence.

So, you think that every kid who doesn't get hit by their parents turns out to be a "freak or punk"... Or that they'll turn out poorly?

There are a lot of parents of very well behaved kids who choose not to hit them. It's really not the only way.

 

[dquan97]

stick with the punishment. Make sure that they understand why they are being punished.

 

[ribbon13]

Refraining from beating your kids isn't the only way either....

Thank you Captain Obvious!

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
Refraining from beating your kids isn't the only way either....

Thank you Captain Obvious!

Yeah, but isn't it also obvious that not "beating your kids" (and still having kids that are well mannered) is better than "beating" them into submission?

(Yeah, I realize that "beating" isn't equal to spanking... I'm just using a common term from the quote. )

 

[ribbon13]

I don't have to worry about it
My girlfriend, if she ever becomes a mother, is far far more likely to beat them into submission. I would likely be the child's rescuer more often than not.

 

[Random Person]

I wouldn't give in to him if he is complaining about the punishment, but if he is truly apologetic and will think twice about doing it again, I would go more leniant then that on the punishment.

 

[YoYoBabyYo]

Coming from a person who was spanked hard (with a feather duster, chopsticks, hangers, the metal buckle of a belt, you name it!), it did help me learn and now I look back to appreciate the lessons it taught me. Just don't seriously beat your kid until he bleeds. Everyone will thank you in the future. You did the right thing. I am proud of you. Take my words for it.

 

[bootymac]

Wow.. 8 year old called mom a bitch? That's... EXTREME! I never swore at my mom until I was 15, and it was only when I was really pissed off at her..

Yikes. I'm scared of your kid

 

[Greyd]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: Greyd
But, if you knew the state of public schools and the kids today...you would wish parents would spank their kids more.

I have two boys in public schools. But I don't believe public schools are the problem with kids... It's the parents general lack of parenting (involvement) that's the problem. Divorce, daycare, etc. is all taking it's toll. (But that's for another discussion.) Yeah, I really do wish more parents would inflict physical pain (rather than patience, understanding, reasoning, rationale, and teaching) to get them to obey. <That was sarcasm, btw.>

But discipline without spanking for kids under a certain age is no effective.

Complete and utter BS. There are tons and tons of kids out there who are extremely well behaved and respectful, yet have never been hit by their parents. And just the same, there are plenty who have been spanked, yet still lash out. And there are, I'm sure, just as many examples of the absolute reverse situations.(As I've said before, there are many other factors at work here.)
My point is that kids can effectively be taught how and why to behave without hitting them.

IMO it seems that most of the people in this thread who are anti-spanking have gone thorough VERY negative experiences or been a part of them, where the discipline is not discipline at al, rather ABUSE. Just because one parent abuses doesn't mean all parents fo. Again I repeat - there's a HUGE difference between the two.

Not sure how you drew that conclusion since there isn't that kind of evidence in this thread. At any rate, I was not physically abused as a kid. Nor did I have any VERY negative experiences with discipline.

Originally posted by: Greyd
...kids are not as "logical" or "good" as you infer.

Again, I'm shocked (and even moreso saddened) that this statement comes from a teacher.

1) I never made the assertion that public schools are at fault. My point was that the current state of PS show how "bad" kids are today and i agree with the reasons that you posted why. In addition, SPANKING and "patience, understanding, reasoning, rationale, and teaching" do not come seperate as you seem to assert. Just because you might have seen it that way or imagine it that way doesn't mean that spanking comes seperate from teaching and patience.

2) There are also TONS of people who WERE spanked as kids and they admit themselves were the better for it. They also admit that they wouldn't have learned the lesson any other way.

3) There is no evidence to support your assertion either. That's why its MY opinion. So what's your point? I know people who were abused as children and go the the other extreme of the spectrum and won't touch their kids, to their fault.

4) There's a huge difference between blind optimism/idealism and being realistic. I don't see kids as little devils as you seem to infer, BUT at the same time I don't see them as angels either. I'm more frightened for you that you seem to wear rose colored glasses that don't allow you to see clearly. Your one experience with your kids does not universally apply to all.

 

[BigHurt]

/me thinks we should invoke the rule of thumb again. hehe

 

[vood0g]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
No, a child will not always understand the complete why behind EVERYTHING. A 4 yr-old won't be able to fully grasp the concept of getting hit by a car may equal death. But the fear of physical pain isn't the only way. It's probably the swiftest way that requires the least amount of effort from the parent, and that's about it. (vood0g, judging by your "shut the hell up/piece of shit" and earlier obdiance comments, I get the impression that's pretty much what you are looking for... A quick method to get the kids in line. No matter what.

I'm not even sure you've considered other methods. Spanking is what you know, most likely how you learned, and that's the way it is. Period. (Correct me if I am wrong.)

Ask yourself... If it is the only way, and as "necessary" as many have said. Then why are there so many well behaved kids who have never been spanked?

And who's to say that the teen and adult asshats weren't spanked? And why would you say that if you don't hit your kid, the only other option is to allow them to continue to act out? These are conclusions you are reaching with no supporting data.

you can actually sit there and say that you can always talk to your kids without smacking them.

Yes, I can. As do many, many others. And yes, very successfully.

a spank to me isn't a quick and swift response to a child that is acting up. its the method to end their bad behavior. i've already said no, they asked why, i told them why, and they continue to act up. at this point, i would spank them to get them to stop acting up. i know that you have probably witnessed many times in the store at how kids are screaming up a storm and the parents are standing there telling them no, comfort them etc whatever. most of the time the kid will continue to behave that way until 1) tires out 2) gets what he/she wants 3) get smacked.

i know there are plenty of good kids out there that have never been spanked before, and i know plenty of bad kids that have never been spanked before. the same goes for kids being spanked. if there is one method to disciplining kids then the world would use it, but too bad for the world, not all kids can be taught the same.

i like having this discussion with you. i really doubt what you say can really change my mind about spanking, nor what i say can change yours. but until the day that my kids can have a constructive discussion with me, like the one that we're having, they will continue to get spanked for bad behavior.

i do not mind my kids not liking what i say, that's in their own right to do so. just dont act stupid over it.

 

[wkwong]

You did the right thing. Although there ARE kids that turn out fine with no beating or any real punishment, many do not. However, do not expect fear alone to accomplish the goal. Set a good example and be nice to them when they are doing good. If they only feel punishment and no love then that will mess with their heads.

Punishment is needed. They need to know what's right from wrong. I have a cousin around the same age. He's the WORST kid I've ever seen. He's already been suspended like 2-3 times for fighting in school. He treats his parents like crap, doesn't listen to a workd they say. And he refuses to speak Chinese (he's Chinese of course). I feel bad for his parents, but then again, it had a lot to do with the way they brought him up.

You must be strict.

 

[piroroadkill]

Punish your kid, don't hurt him too much, but yeah, make sure he knows what's wrong.

On the same token, if he does something really good, do make sure he gets the damn praise. There's nothing worse than putting effort into something and getting no recognition.

Make sure you balance it out.

 

[Taejin]

I'm asian, so I was raised in a household where spanking wasn't greatly debated (ie America) but accepted. However, unlike other Asian parents, my dad was really prone to hitting me, and bringing up past misdeeds, however small they were, and hitting me when he was pissed off.

It was bad enough that I got systematically hit with the switch for 5-6 hours straight every other day.

I don't think I came out too screwed up, but I've definitely had some problems while growing up. I hate my dad in a depth that I can't really explain, a sort of cold implacable hatred that will never go away, or hasn't at least yet.

My mom, on the other hand, hit me as well - but she NEVER did it in excess, and she was always there to support me and show me that she loved me, as well as letting me know through words along with actions. I love my mother unequivocally. I think one of the reasons why I have not gone off the deep end while growing up was because my mother was such a pillar.

I think the most important thing for a child is to feel that they've been punished fairly. If your child feels like their punishments were undeserved, then there will be lifelong resentment and hatred. Fair punishment and love is the way to go.

Oh, btw, my mom only hit us (me and my sister) when we did something wrong that we KNEW we shouldn't do. And it was always 3-4 hits on the hand with whatever she had (usually spatula )

 

[Terumo]

If folks wonder why Asians are so well behaved (generally) it's because corporal punishment is endorsed. Mom would use coat hangers really well to ensure discipline, and every slight you've done since you were born you're reminded of it. She'd also kill any of her kids that got in trouble with the law -- as you don't shame family.

Maybe extreme by Western standards, but it's the status quo in Asian households. You obey your parents, or not only face getting stuffing beat out of you, lose their support. That's a coldest shun of them all.

They still cane kids into high school, so it doesn't stop once a kid's a teenager. Kid comes back with a baseball bat or gun, the kid's d-e-a-d (or wished he was because the family would disown him, as well as the community treat him as an outcast). Discipline is really, really, really strict.

If you're too relaxed kids will grow up and be too lenient on their kids. From there we have criminals and folks who'd careless about themselves and others. Don't abuse (like burning them and such crap), but let them know what's more fearful -- smoking a joint or returning home to find punishment waiting.

Talk often is too cheap. One can talk for ages but if temptations are too high the kid's going to "go with the flow". Teach them the consequence of the flow where it actually hurts, and they'll not take such adventures. They won't miss the allowance or the video games as remembering that sore butt for days. That's personal.

 

[Wingznut]

To reiterate my main point, I don't believe anyone HAS to spank their child to get results. There are other options. I don't have any huge moral issues against spanking... I just don't think it's necessary.
And please don't equate not spanking with not punishing. Poor behavior must result in negative feedback. (It just doesn't HAVE TO BE inflicting pain.) And just as others have said, good behavior must result in positive feedback.

One thing I've noticed is that I've asked a ton of "Why" questions. But I don't recall any of the pro-spankers asking anything similar. I could be wrong, but it really seems to be that any other options aren't even worth considering or trying. This is what you guys know, and that's the way it's gonna be.


Well, I think five days of this discussion is enough for me.

Thanks to all who have made it very civil. It's pretty amazing that in 240+ responses, an ATOT thread hasn't turned into a flamefest.

 

[Linux23]

Phew, I actually read this thread from beginning to the end and it was really good.

As stated, hundreds of times in this thread, each child is different. The same punishment does not work on every child.

I used to get spanked, and then put on punishment, but my mom would feel so bad that she would then lighten the punishment a few days early.

Something that my mom told me that will ring true to me for years. "If you don't listen to me, you're going to have to someone else(boss, cop, judge, prison mate, etc)." I was the badass, and thought I didn't have to listen to anyone until I grew and really thought about what she said. And it's 100% true. In life, there is always someone that you have to listen to.

 

[tyler811]

Originally posted by: CrowDog
An eyel evel friendly understanding talk is what works best with my 8yr old. If I spank him or get angry....dosent really work in the long run. Basicly when my kid feels hes on my team he wants to do what makes me happy...If hes scared or intimidated by me....I really dont get anywhere.

just me 2 cents

Agree I have never spanked my 8 yr, never had a reason.

 

[tyler811]

Originally posted by: Cruez


I, for one, never spank my kids in the heat of the moment. Unless it?s a swat. I will inform them that the spanking will be coming in a little bit, gives them some time to think about what they did.
I have seen kids in stores or malls that are screaming because they aren't getting what they wanted, and you hear the parents say, (in a soft tone) honey, you need to be quiet. I would be taking them back out to the car for a good swat.

Contradiction if you take the kid out to the car for a "swat" that is done in the heat of the moment.

What is the difference between a swat and a spanking? One hit ? 3 hits? It is all spanking.

 

[LordMorpheus]

Originally posted by: MX2times
You have to talk "TO" your kids, not "AT" them. No beatings please

I got the back of some hands as a kid. Lesson learned, kids don't respect anything else.

Hit your kids when they need it, its good for them.

 

[Chaotic42]

I'm not wading through all of this hippy lovedfest "just talk it out" crap, but thousands of generations of children were raised being spanked at the very least. Every generation of Americans up to the 80s or so was raised where they got spanked.

Have all of these billions of parents over time "failed as parents"?

Don't beat your kids, but a good spanking will set them straight.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
I got the back of some hands as a kid. Lesson learned, kids don't respect anything else.

You couldn't be more wrong. Kids aren't stupid and they certainly do respect more than the fear of being hit.

You don't give them enough credit, that's for sure.

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
I'm not wading through all of this hippy lovedfest "just talk it out" crap, but thousands of generations of children were raised being spanked at the very least. Every generation of Americans up to the 80s or so was raised where they got spanked.

Have all of these billions of parents over time "failed as parents"?

Don't beat your kids, but a good spanking will set them straight.

"thousands of generations of children" were raised to be racist. Does that make it the best option???

I'm not sure that anyone in this "hippy lovedfest" is saying that those parents failed. I'm just wondering why hit your kid if you don't have to?