TROPHY system.

[abc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0snvhQmi78


NBC just ran a segment on this Israeli developed system they will start to use... i'm not sure if it's their govt.... probably not, just some contractor like we do here... 300k to 400k per system...


USA (the army) won't consider it according to NBC.... despite what this video suggests....

because USA has already contracted to 'Army fav' Raytheon to develope a system... which will come in 2011!

BTW this system has well over a 90pct protection rate as stated by the maker, and i think independent tests by some group in USA has deemed it at 98pct.


But alas, this is where we see $$$ and contracts getting away from the real goal... protecting US lives there... what a shame.

it's always $$$.

 

[Rainsford]

You know, if this is a "time of war"...aren't defense contractors and their congressional supporters engaged in war profiteering? Seems to me that that would be pretty illegal, maybe some ACTUAL treason for the ranting righties...but how about that, all is quiet from their side of the fence. I suppose those defense boys DO give a lot of money to the Republican party...

 

[Passions]

War creates jobs and keeps people employed.

It's a fact.

It has been a fact for thousands of yrs.

Get over it already.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

The TROPHY system is useless in almost all cases. It only protects large vehicles. The RPGs used in the ME are very,very rarely capable of taking out an armored vehicle. Most of the threat from RPGs is to ground soldiers (someone who has been to the sandbox correct me if I am wrong).

 

[BrownTown]

Well, i saw that along time ago and it does not seem like a viable technology for todays military. Perhaps in contorlled tests it is effective, but in real battlefield conditions it would be much less usefull. Not to mention the hugh cost of fitting so many vehicles, and all it would mean was that the insurgents had to switch their tactics up a little to avoid it. So im glad the military has decided not to waste our money on a system that will be essentially useless in real life situations.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
The TROPHY system is useless in almost all cases. It only protects large vehicles. The RPGs used in the ME are very,very rarely capable of taking out an armored vehicle. Most of the threat from RPGs is to ground soldiers (someone who has been to the sandbox correct me if I am wrong).

Only because they can't HIT the vehicle. And many rounds are simply duds. But RPG's are capable of penetrating any of our armor short of the M1, and that's only from the front.

I believe the US already has a similar system to Trophy, can't remember the name of it. It's major drawback was that it didn't work well against close-in threats. Not enough time to lock onto and engage the target.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
Well, i saw that along time ago and it does not seem like a viable technology for todays military. Perhaps in contorlled tests it is effective, but in real battlefield conditions it would be much less usefull. Not to mention the hugh cost of fitting so many vehicles, and all it would mean was that the insurgents had to switch their tactics up a little to avoid it. So im glad the military has decided not to waste our money on a system that will be essentially useless in real life situations.

"does not seem"? Based on what?

 

[BrownTown]

based on what I said in the rest of my post...

 

[JEDIYoda]

too many opinions floating around this thread. Not enough facts!

 

[glenn1]

The RPGs used in the ME are very,very rarely capable of taking out an armored vehicle. Most of the threat from RPGs is to ground soldiers (someone who has been to the sandbox correct me if I am wrong).

There's a lot of variables involved. Type of armored vehicle being hit being one (Abrams or a Bradley? Challenger or a Stryker?), munitions being used (RPG-7, Kornet, something else?), street level or from a rooftop or window, etc. It's not really a good idea to look for anecdotal instances of an Abrams surviving an RPG-7 hit - while there's an ever-evolving struggle between armor and anti-armor devices for battlefield supremacy at any given moment, generally you're well-advised to pick the anti-armor.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
based on what I said in the rest of my post...

Which lists zero facts.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
too many opinions floating around this thread. Not enough facts!

What facts do you want? The true effectiveness of Trophy is surely classified. And even that may be open to interpretation. It may be limited to only a specific set of threats from a given range at a given angle of attack. I don't know. But I do know that in this sort of testing, variables are greatly reduced so that you can actually have some confidence in the answers that you do get, rather than trying to replicate every single battlefield condition (cost prohibitive and unpractical).

Facts:
- RPG's are notoriously inaccurate
- RPG's are notoriously unreliable
- A RPG can penetrate probably 12 inches or so of armor steel
- RPG's that we face are mainly left over Soviet stockpile
- A spall liner can significantly (>50%) reduce the spalling effects of an RPG once it penetrates the steel
- Spaced armor also helps to reduce the effects, the shaped charge has a hard time re-penetrating another layer of armor once it has passed through one layer
- The supersonic pressure wave in front of the shaped charge is actually pushing the steel out of the way

 

[kage69]

War creates jobs and keeps people employed.

..and employment is more important than the lives of our soldiers, gotcha.

Funny how the 'culture of life'ers chuck their precepts out the window as soon as money enters the picture. I can see the 'tough sh!t that's life' attitude when talking about bloodthirsty terrorists and such, but that's just flat out cold concerning our own troops. Holding our guys and gals in uniform subject to the "Not Invented Here Syndrome" doesn't seem like supporting them at all, but maybe it's just me.


Hell, with all the hardware and political backing we give Israel, they should donating these to us. Let us evaluate it for ourselves, if it doesn't work we can always go back to adorning our vehicles with common garden fencing (which ain't too shabby for RPG encounters short of 'The Chechen Swarm.')

 

[jrenz]

Originally posted by: kage69

War creates jobs and keeps people employed.

..and employment is more important than the lives of our soldiers, gotcha.

Funny how the 'culture of life'ers chuck their precepts out the window as soon as money enters the picture. I can see the 'tough sh!t that's life' attitude when talking about bloodthirsty terrorists and such, but that's just flat out cold concerning our own troops. Holding our guys and gals in uniform subject to the "Not Invented Here Syndrome" doesn't seem like supporting them at all, but maybe it's just me.


Hell, with all the hardware and political backing we give Israel, they should donating these to us. Let us evaluate it for ourselves, if it doesn't work we can always go back to adorning our vehicles with common garden fencing (which ain't too shabby for RPG encounters short of 'The Chechen Swarm.')

Guess what genious... American industry won WWII. Get over yourself.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: jrenz

Originally posted by: kage69

War creates jobs and keeps people employed.

..and employment is more important than the lives of our soldiers, gotcha.

Funny how the 'culture of life'ers chuck their precepts out the window as soon as money enters the picture. I can see the 'tough sh!t that's life' attitude when talking about bloodthirsty terrorists and such, but that's just flat out cold concerning our own troops. Holding our guys and gals in uniform subject to the "Not Invented Here Syndrome" doesn't seem like supporting them at all, but maybe it's just me.


Hell, with all the hardware and political backing we give Israel, they should donating these to us. Let us evaluate it for ourselves, if it doesn't work we can always go back to adorning our vehicles with common garden fencing (which ain't too shabby for RPG encounters short of 'The Chechen Swarm.')

Guess what genious... American industry won WWII. Get over yourself.

Non sequitur.

 

[wetech]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You know, if this is a "time of war"...aren't defense contractors and their congressional supporters engaged in war profiteering? Seems to me that that would be pretty illegal, maybe some ACTUAL treason for the ranting righties...but how about that, all is quiet from their side of the fence. I suppose those defense boys DO give a lot of money to the Republican party...

Your post makes zero sense. The defense industry is supposed to shut down during a time of war, otherwise it's war profiteering?

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Passions
War creates jobs and keeps people employed.

It's a fact.

It has been a fact for thousands of yrs.

Get over it already.

Do you know how absurd what you just said really is?

War is destruction. It can't 'create' anything.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Passions
War creates jobs and keeps people employed.

It's a fact.

It has been a fact for thousands of yrs.

Get over it already.

Do you know how absurd what you just said really is?

War is destruction. It can't 'create' anything.

got us out of the great depression...

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: abc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0snvhQmi78


NBC just ran a segment on this Israeli developed system they will start to use... i'm not sure if it's their govt.... probably not, just some contractor like we do here... 300k to 400k per system...


USA (the army) won't consider it according to NBC.... despite what this video suggests....

because USA has already contracted to 'Army fav' Raytheon to develope a system... which will come in 2011!

BTW this system has well over a 90pct protection rate as stated by the maker, and i think independent tests by some group in USA has deemed it at 98pct.


But alas, this is where we see $$$ and contracts getting away from the real goal... protecting US lives there... what a shame.

it's always $$$.

This was a FOX news segment. Can you post anything to back up your claim that the military refuses to use this Israeli system??

 

[theeedude]

Didn't Israeli tanks just get their nose bloodied big time by Hezbollah RPGs?

 

[Aimster]

Hezbollah took out some Israeli tanks with their RPGs

Now what you will see are RPGS that separate into 3 rounds to defeat the trophy system.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Hezbollah took out some Israeli tanks with their RPGs

Now what you will see are RPGS that separate into 3 rounds to defeat the trophy system.

My point is that Israelis better prove the technology in their forces if they want to win any US military orders.

 

[LEDominator]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You know, if this is a "time of war"...aren't defense contractors and their congressional supporters engaged in war profiteering? Seems to me that that would be pretty illegal, maybe some ACTUAL treason for the ranting righties...but how about that, all is quiet from their side of the fence. I suppose those defense boys DO give a lot of money to the Republican party...

<shrug> Eisenhower warned against the Military Industrial complex. Not to mention that quite a bit of the defense industry is in California which isn't exactly known for being conservative. Go figure, lol.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You know, if this is a "time of war"...aren't defense contractors and their congressional supporters engaged in war profiteering? Seems to me that that would be pretty illegal, maybe some ACTUAL treason for the ranting righties...but how about that, all is quiet from their side of the fence. I suppose those defense boys DO give a lot of money to the Republican party...

I forget his name but the head of Consolidated Aircraft (makers of the B-24 Liberator and PBY Catalina and other crucial WW2 aircraft) was so incensed that the government put profit limitations on how much he could charge for these aircraft, IN TIME OF WAR, that he sold the company and left the business. It was not that he couldn't make a profit, it was that the profit was limited.
So it never surprises me when a defense contractor puts profit ahead of this country.

 

[Termagant]

Yawn..... and if the US Army bought the trophy system we'd have liberals in here posting about how it's a waste of money, unproven, didn't even help the Israelis in Lebanon.