I see you don't glean your news from any of the major news networks. You depend on the Scotland times. lol....thanks thats cute.
However there is nothing new in thier article either.
If you like UK papers London times is a good read as well.
I see you don't glean your news from any of the major news networks. You depend on the Scotland times. lol....thanks thats cute.
However there is nothing new in thier article either.
If you like UK papers London times is a good read as well.
Fine, charge them and try them in a transparent tribunal so the world can see the supposed evidence.
Or do we have to take the US military's, known and admitted liars, word for it?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
yes, you do.
deal with it.
We cannot allow our enemies to see who we have. dont you think that might make any of the intel they provide null and void? oh ya, you dont think about things like that. you're more worried that they are getting extra soft toilet paper and pillows than in protecting the soldiers downrange who depend upon the intel gathered from prisoners in order to stay alive...
These are not POW's we're talking about here. These men are war criminals, protected persons, and detainees. Go and study their rights in the Law of War and GC's. Those rights do not include "transparent tribunals."
So like I said, too bad, so sad, deal with it!
Indeed.
But we will also have to deal with the hatred and distrust we are building around the world and that will eventually be the death of the empire. The damage to the American image abroad is startling and very sad.
In the meantime don't be so sure your bosses will come out of this fiasco unscathed.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
like i said, people like you are more interested in prosecuting GWB than in the safety of the troops or the setruction of our enemies. you'd much rather see our entire government thrashed apart and jailed than the enemy. you'd much rather worry about our country's image than the lives of our troops and their safety gained through interrogating detainees at Gitmo. if given the chance, you'd probably run around Gitmo or Iraq with a camera HOPING to score pictures of something done "wrong" by our troops... that would probably make you feel good about yourself.
dont even try to deny it. you are one step away from working FOR the enemy, and the sad part is that you dont even realize it...
Don't you feel good with Jack Bauer here protecting our country? Thankfully, many, if not most, people working to protect us have a little more mass between their ears.
I seriously doubt you're in a position to know who's being detained...but independent reports would seem to indicate that a lot of them are just people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not that I expect you care, for you it's really about dehumanizing them so you don't feel so bad. If they really are bad guys, well so much the better. But if it's just some poor, dumb Iraqi, well, you won't loose too much sleep over him. You'll just call 'em all "war criminals" and try not to strain your brain thinking too much about it.
Seriously, whenever I run into people like you, who aren't just blowhards on the internet, but people who actually are "helping" to fight the war on terrorism, I tend to wonder if you aren't just as much of a danger to us as the people we started this war to defeat. Sure, they are the more immediate threat, but people like you will rot this country from the inside in the long run.
My allegiances are to American ideals not whatever government currently sits in power. And, IMHO, the current government is an enemy of American ideals and far more dangerous to the American way of life than any Islamic nutbag(s) could be.
I find it frightening, and quite contrary to the spirit America was founded upon, that you put so much faith and trust in authority.
Yes indeed. Though, if a person of this caliber really works in military intelligence, are we really surprised our intelligence was so pathetically wrong and could we ever trust it again?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
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- 76
yayyy for personal insults and uninformed commentary from the sidelines!
just out of curiosity, how many of you have been to Gitmo? Baghdad? Khost? Ramadi? Ghazni? Kabul? Bagram? Basra? Fallujah?....
ok, let's make this easier. how many of you have ever been within 3000 miles of a combat zone?
just curious... im just trying to figure out if any of you are anything more than CNN/NYT Warriors...? yay? nay? anyone?...
ok then, read on with your bad selves!
just out of curiosity, how many of you have been to Gitmo? Baghdad? Khost? Ramadi? Ghazni? Kabul? Bagram? Basra? Fallujah?....
ok, let's make this easier. how many of you have ever been within 3000 miles of a combat zone?
just curious... im just trying to figure out if any of you are anything more than CNN/NYT Warriors...? yay? nay? anyone?...
ok then, read on with your bad selves!
its a catch 22 palehorse if some terrorist foriegn/or home grown were to destroy thier lives they would be crying about incompetent itelligence.
If you do whats necessary to get the intelligence they would cry about some scumbags rights.
I thought you were being deployed are you back already?
How about we try this question: Who here is trained and paid to lie for their employer thereby always casting the best possible light upon those who write his/her checks?
Hey Tom Cruise, tell us what you honestly think about Scientology?
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
:roll:
One of the most fundamental precepts of the Constitution, and that underlay all the thinking of the Framers, was the importance of dissent and free thinking. As far as I'm concerned, speaking as a veteran who HAS deployed into combat zones, the sheep are those who refuse to think critically about the line being fed them by their government. I'll also observe that the Iraqi resistance forces are not "wolves" knocking at the door of the United States - they only became a threat to us and our forces when we chose to invade their country without provocation.
I respect and appreciate your service, but I don't believe you or anyone else in Iraq (including several close friends of mine) are "protecting" me or any other American. You're doing your duty by following deeply flawed, poorly-thought-out orders by a command authority that isn't thinking in your best interests.
If you could provide some evidence of this safety then please do so. All I see is unrelenting car bombings and assassinations happening every single day. Iraq has barely improved for the past three years (some better facilities but at what cost?). They crapped together a government that can't even resolve differences between themselves, and even with more and more Iraqis in power the attacks have not been slowing down.
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Yes indeed. Though, if a person of this caliber really works in military intelligence, are we really surprised our intelligence was so pathetically wrong and could we ever trust it again?
Even less encouraging is that he still believes Iraq was a threat to the United States.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Yes indeed. Though, if a person of this caliber really works in military intelligence, are we really surprised our intelligence was so pathetically wrong and could we ever trust it again?
Even less encouraging is that he still believes Iraq was a threat to the United States.
I will never go so far as to say that Iraq was an imediate or direct threat given what we know NOW. However, they WERE a threat to atleast some degree, and had there actually been WMD's, then they would have been an immediate threat. They also spent a dozen years violating peace resolutions and shooting at our planes on a regular basis... so I'm sure some of our pilots considered them a threat. in fact, im damn sure!
That said, I'm realistic enough to know that pulling out of Iraq completely, NOW, simply is not a viable option. What I have yet to see from the opposition is just that: a VIABLE alternative.
Because without a viable alternative, we have to stay the course. If someone can come up with a way to reform or eradicate fanatical Islamists, overnight, instead of the 20-50 years I project it will take, then I'm allllll ears!
anyone? anyone?
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Simple, end imperialism and meddling in their soverign nations governments, provoking jihads and funding terrorism and terrorism states, propping up dictators who slaughter countless doesent make the locals very happy either mind you .
Islamic people become fanatical when they are screwed over, just like our own fundies here in america chomping at the bit to invade the mideast.
It is simple, treat your neighbors as you would like to be treated. Now how is that so %#$%#$ hard for the military and cia + friends, tell the corporations to fvck off and BUY what they need like everyone else, if you dont like a democraticlly elected leader, too bad, wait do not overthrow someone elses government unless you are invited to by the majority of the populace in a DIRE emergency. (That does not mean for fruit/oil companies) Problem solved.
(Well, not really solved, now we have the muslim world enraged far far worse and have bigtime blowback coming thanks to dipsh1ts like bush jumping into a hornets nest with both feet and pissing all over)
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
that answer was a whole lot of nothing in terms of the here and now. you have totally and completely ignored the reality of the situation; and that reailty is that we are ALREADY there, ALREADY entrenched, and there are ALREADY thousands and thousands of extremists who will stop at nothing to kill every single one of us. (worldwide... not just in Iraq of the ME!)
so NOW what? quit giving me the tired old preventative policy when it's too f'n late for that. we have to deal with the reailty we have created, and it's not going to be easy. Those soundbites you just threw out sound alright, ideologically speaking, but NONE of them solve the real problems on the ground. NONE of them will fix the real problems we are ALREADY facing.
Those ideals may be a PART of the solution, but they are far from a solution by themselves. Changing policy is one thing, but again, it does nothing to eliminate or eradicate the fanaticals that are already out there.
so once again, give us a VIABLE alternative! im talking about the nuts and bolts of a REALISTIC total plan involving logistics and multi-faceted strategies to give our nation safety and security, as well as eliminating the enemies out there.
now, i dont expect you to understand half of what I've written, nor do I expect you to have half a clue as to where to start logistically. But like I said, I'm willing to listen to whoever you and yours elect to step forward with a VIABLE plan.
I just dont think the anti's are any more capable of coming up with one than our current leadership. I have yet to see someone with the brains, cajones, and capacity to spit out a viable alternative... and that goes for BOTH sides of the aisle!
So until I do, we'll stay the course, and for me that means taking on our enemies one at a time until they're all gone.
so, what grand plan does your side offer as an alternative? I wont hold my breath... all I'm likely to get are more ideolistic soundbites and wishy-washy "what could have been" bullsh*t....
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Leave. Just walk away and let those people be. Stop making it worse, we have already done them wrong, why continue? How is that so damn hard? Pack it up, haul ass, vamoose, get the hell out. They don't like us meddling (and who would) so STOP ALREADY.
I got a viable plan: Make up a bvllshit story (those guys are GREAT at this) about peace with honor. The military takes their sh1t, bags it up, turn the vehicles around and leave the way you came in while the gettins good and at least 2 digits of americans still support them.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
then Iran swoops in, takes over with their fanatical shiite rule, and all hell breaks loose when they go after the House of Saud, Syria, Jordan, and finally Israel. We then have one gigantic fundamentalist cesspool to deal with. A rebirth of a fundamentalist Arab peninsula centered on Babylon... WITH NUKES!
yay. good plan.
*belch*
the key word in my post was "viable"... perhaps you missed it. GL!
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Already gonna happen, people told you all this before we even invaded excpet more of our soldiers and iraqis going to die while pulling their pud in iraq waiting for the collapse.
Oh yeah, it is already a country of shia rule, thanks to the US's puppet government and half-assed constitution written by a cleric noone bothered to read! *clap clap* good work.
So, you ready to die for allah in the iraqi homeland for shia freedom? Fool.
Just once it would be nice to see the military and the admin not royally f' up a war unless someone else does the brunt of the job for them.
It is about time to seriously gut this military and keep it out of the hands of greedy admins and get it back to doing what is should be doing, defending america, what a total waste of taxpayer money defending the newest islamic state while our own country heads into the sh1tter.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
exactly when has that ever happened?
and no, Iran has not been able to swoop down and initiate their dream of a reborn Caliphate...not yet. but they damn sure will the second some anti convinces our Admin to pull out. THAT day will be the very beginning of WWIII.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
Is your real name Bill Clinton?
If anything, we need to triple the size of our forces and budgets; or re-initiate the draft.
Then it wouldnt be a problem to guard the borders AND eliminate fanatical Islam from the planet.
but hey, that's just my opinion... Bill ClintonRot wants quite the oppisite. so be it.
Steeplerot
Lifer
- Mar 29, 2004
- 13,051
- 6
- 81
Pick a war, any war since turn of last century.
Oh teh noooes!! The Calphiate, go strap on your tinfoil boy. Thats a whopper, even if true it is already done, iraq is a shia state already, once secular, now a fundie haven. Like I said, congrats. *clap clap*
Good luck in your mission to defend allahs newest state of iraq. May he be with you. (you do believe in a god right?)
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