Trim with Intel RST 11.2/11.5 and RAID 0? Update: Trying 11.5 RST with 11.5.x.x OROM

[Engineer]

Update: Hellhammer determined it did not work (below). After reading burner's comments about OROM, I read around and seems that there are extracted images of the Intel OROM for RAID around the web and it "seems" pretty easy to patch your BIOS. I patched my Biostar P67 AMI BIOS very easily but have not been brave enough to try it yet.

Links down in the thread for the procedures and files to download for the brave souls out there.

______________________________________________________________

I know that the official TRIM release was supposed to be on the 11.5 version but I found this while snooping around:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=4355086#post4355086

Downloads (yes, it works with non Intel boards as I'm running it on a Biostar but I did not download directly from Intel so don't know about that one).

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Det...Desktop+Boards"&DownloadType=Drivers&lang=eng

From the help section....(Getting Started).

• Trim (Microsoft Windows 7* only)
This feature provides support for all pass-through solid-state drives (SSDs) in your storage system that meets the ATA-8 protocol requirements. Also, support is provided for SSDs that are part of a RAID 0 array. This feature optimizes write operations, helps reduce device wear, and maintains unused storage area on devices as large as possible.

I have read that this may only work with Windows 8, regardless of what the help file states. Anyone know of anything different? Would suck if Intel didn't release this for Windows 7 (assuming that it's not too much difficulty - i.e. Windows 8 may have been better designed for this).

 

[Hellhammer]

Hmm... I have some spare SSDs, maybe I should give it a try.

 

[Engineer]

Hmm... I have some spare SSDs, maybe I should give it a try.

The question is: How do you (we) know if it's working? I guess you could load the drives down with lots of writes/deletes and see if the TRIM cleans them up after a short time. I assume most new drives have garbage collection and will clean themselves up over time (not sure if you have to log off or go to BIOS screen though).

Would be nice if it worked though.

 

[Hellhammer]

The question is: How do you (we) know if it's working? I guess you could load the drives down with lots of writes/deletes and see if the TRIM cleans them up after a short time. I assume most new drives have garbage collection and will clean themselves up over time (not sure if you have to log off or go to BIOS screen though).

Would be nice if it worked though.

The same way we test it in our reviews Torture the drive with some 4KB random writes and then see if a single TRIM pass will restore the performance.

 

[Engineer]

:biggrin:

Have at it man...have at it!

 

[Hellhammer]

Filling the RAID 0 volume with data now... Give me an hour or so.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The same way we test it in our reviews Torture the drive with some 4KB random writes and then see if a single TRIM pass will restore the performance.

I was under the impression that TRIM happens in the background and not something you run like a defrag on a normal HDD.

 

[Hellhammer]

I was under the impression that TRIM happens in the background and not something you run like a defrag on a normal HDD.

In real world scenarios it does. However, formatting (just use Windows Disk Management) applies TRIM on the whole drive/volume as it is basically telling the drive to delete all.

 

[Engineer]

Damn man, what time is it in Finland?

I thought this was going to be a few days. Pleasantly surprised! :thumbsup:

 

[Hellhammer]

Damn man, what time is it in Finland?

I thought this was going to be a few days. Pleasantly surprised! :thumbsup:

4.30 AM at the moment. I work night shift so my internal clock is pretty much in US time (I usually go to bed at around 9 AM my time). There isn't much to do at night anyway so running the test in the background isn't a problem.

 

[Burner27]

I believe you need OROM 11.0 or higher on your mobo to work in conjunction with these new drivers that promise Trim for Raid arrays. I have yet to see any manufacturer release that version for any of their boards.

 

[Engineer]

I believe you need OROM 11.0 or higher on your mobo to work in conjunction with these new drivers that promise Trim for Raid arrays. I have yet to see any manufacturer release that version for any of their boards.

After reading around, I think you're right! (damnit).



It seems there is something for Asus boards but I'm not sure if that's a hacked version or a released version.

I'm sure that my Biostar board will never see such an update.

"cuss_words_here".

Edit: Anyone brave enough to piece together custom BIOS editions using the various extracted Intel OROM's out there?

Edit #2: Checked my system and the Orom was at 10.0.xx.xx. I flashed to the latest BIOS and it's now at 10.5.xx.xx.

Edit #3: Now I've patched my BIOS with OROM 11.0.xx.xx but am afraid to flash it!

 

[Hellhammer]

It was a no go.

 

[Engineer]

It was a no go.

Thanks for trying. Burner tipped me off as to what the issue is. Hopefully soon.

 

[Burner27]

After reading around, I think you're right! (damnit).



It seems there is something for Asus boards but I'm not sure if that's a hacked version or a released version.

I'm sure that my Biostar board will never see such an update.

"cuss_words_here".

Edit: Anyone brave enough to piece together custom BIOS editions using the various extracted Intel OROM's out there?

Edit #2: Checked my system and the Orom was at 10.0.xx.xx. I flashed to the latest BIOS and it's now at 10.5.xx.xx.

Edit #3: Now I've patched my BIOS with OROM 11.0.xx.xx but am afraid to flash it!

What program did you use to:

A)see which version of the ORom you have installed
B)how you patched yours to version 11

 

[Engineer]

What program did you use to:

A)see which version of the ORom you have installed
B)how you patched yours to version 11

The Intel RST program to read. Go to help and then select the system report button.

See these threads as guides on the BIOS procedure (AMI BIOS for my board):

http://forums.mydigitallife.info/th...-old-title-Intel-ICH9R-7-6-0-1011-rom/page107

EDIT: English translated version (directly from the source) of the site translated below:

http://www.win-lite.de/wbb/board208...pci-rom-modules-of-an-ami-phoenix-award-bios/

Translated German version of the above link.

http://translate.google.com/transla...s-modding-aktualisierung-von-pci-rom-modulen/


Here is a thread (translated) with all of the binaries for various OROMs already extracted:

http://translate.google.com/transla...module-bereits-extrahiert/#post148637&act=url

The replacement of the OROM was almost "too easy", hence my apprehension as to whether it was done right or not, lol. I guess I could always upgrade to a new Z68 or something if I were to accidentally kill this BioStar board (assuming I could not get it repaired or BIOS chip replaced), lol!

 

[Makaveli]

Damnit i've been waiting for this.

If this is locked into that POS windows 8 only i'm going to go thermonuclear on somebody!

Need more details and testing!!!!!

 

[Engineer]

Now running OROM 11.2.0.1527

RST version 11.2.0.1006

Not sure what it gains me (yet) but I'm there. Don't really want to destroy my installed system to test whether anything is working or not (at least not right now). Was really easy to change using the links above (AMI BIOS).

Could try the 11.5 BETA that is supposed to support TRIM but I have read that these are enterprise X79 chipset support versions. Several have run them on other platforms but no definite results that I can see yet.

 

[Hellhammer]

I would flash my BIOS too but can't really afford losing my main system, even temporarily. I have an SSD coming in next week which needs quick reviewing and don't really have time to play with my BIOS if something goes wrong.

 

[Engineer]

Now at

Intel RAID Rom 11.5.0.1347 and 11.5.0.1184 Beta RST Windows Drivers.

Will see how well they work. Drives show up as SCSI devices in Device Manager.

Edit: About 2 hours ago, I placed a couple hundred files, just over 22GB worth, into a folder on the desktop. I deleted them and proceeded to empty the recycle bin. I tested with AS-SSD at 1453. Just did a retest at 1521. Not sure if TRIM had anything to do with it or was simply garbage collection from sitting (logged on) idle for the last few hours or the test simply ran on another portion of the drive. More testing is needed.

 

[Orbidia]

Hellhammer,

Part 1:

Thank you for checking the RST 11.2 driver for Trim support and confirming it doesn't work without the motherboard BIOS update.

Is it possible you could do one final test in Windows 7 with the Updated 11.x OROM as well? If this is true, it is big news. It does say it in the readme that it supports trim with RAID 0 in Windows 7. It also states:
"F6 and RAID BIOS configurations need to be performed prior to installation of this driver for proper operation."
So you have only confirmed what the readme says - Trim won't be supported without the BIOS update. I still have hope.

It's been almost a month since this driver was released. I think a lot of people have been waiting for a long time for this functionality. I've searched around the Internet and there's a lot of discussion about this but nobody has done the full test with the BIOS upgrade. In fact, Anandtech is one of the ONLY places which actually conclusively tests for Trim with SSDs.

Anandtech is the undisputed leader when it comes to SSD testing. It would be so nice to hear it from you guys that this barrier has finally been crossed. If true, it seems like it should be mentioned on the Anandtech website. I really hope Windows 7 isn't left out of RAID 0 Trim as I'm not planning on upgrading to Windows 8 and I don't think many businesses are either.

Even on Intel's own "Communities" SSD forums, nobody knows and nobody has tested it... Look at this confusing exchange:
http://communities.intel.com/thread/29704
I look forward to finding out if Intel finally accomplished this or not and I don't know anyone else to ask to truly test it. Anandtech to the rescue?

Part 2:

There is one more thing I would like to suggest. And there is no better place to get my tiny idea out there.

********************************
******* The idea is this!! ***********
********************************
Windows 7 has a command which says if Trim is actively being sent to an SSD. But there is no good way to know if the SSD is performing the trim operations. I just don't understand why in this day and age with all the SMART attributes and polling of data, SSDs can't have a simple way of receiving a query saying "I'm sending you a fake Trim command... Are you seeing it?" And then the SSD either responds "Yes. I received the signal, I really have Trim enabled." Or it doesn't send anything back at all in which case Trim isn't enabled. This is something which is needed since Trim was first implemented and yet you guys have this very laborious process to test if Trim really works! I realize this needs to be done at the firmware level which is why I''m mentioning it here. I actually looked for Anand's e-mail a while to mention this idea but he doesn't make it readily available.

I realize Anand has a little sway with the SSD manufacturers so if he could mention this to a couple of them (particularly the ones with their own Firmware divisions), maybe the ball could get rolling. I realize it is difficult to add features to firmware but this one is certainly worthwhile and once one manufacturer implements it, maybe others will follow. It would be even better to have a standard way of doing it across all manufacturers but the idea has to start somewhere! Oh well... that's my idea which is really just obviousness itself.

If you can happen to get this small idea to Anand so maybe he can pass it on to the manufacturers, I really think all SSD users would benefit greatly. A simple way of confirming Trim support for the average user is all I'm really asking. Who wouldn't want that?

Thanks for listening!

 

[Engineer]

Can someone with a RAID 0 array of SSD's (not using Intel RST 11.5 and OROM 11.5) run Crystal Disk Info 5.0 and see if their drives are listed with TRIM active or not?

Thanks

 

[kbp]

Can someone with a RAID 0 array of SSD's (not using Intel RST 11.5 and OROM 11.5) run Crystal Disk Info 5.0 and see if their drives are listed with TRIM active or not?

Thanks

It's showing TRIM active on my RAID0 storage disks. (2 Intel 320's)

 

[Engineer]

It's showing TRIM active on my RAID0 storage disks. (2 Intel 320's)

Thanks. Looks like Crystal looks at the underlying drives and not the raid system.


Edit: Also, after reading about testing TRIM on the OCZ forums, I created a text file, found that file on the disk using a Hex editor, deleted the file and emptied the recycle bin. I waited a bit and checked the disk location again and the file contents were still there. This indicates to me that TRIM is not working as of this release.

Edit #2: I tried the above procedure on my single SSD drive system and TRIM, if working, did not erase the contents of the file either, so I'm not so sure that the method works.

Is there a time limit that one must wait for TRIM to kick in and clean the drive once activated?

 

[Owls]

I personally believe that Intel will not support raid 0 trim on any of the older boards (X58, etc) unless the OROM gets updated and we all know those older boards will not be updated directly by the manufacturers.

So that leaves you with two options: take a risk and update the OROM yourself which could cause side effects or upgrade to a newer Z77 or X79 board.