Trickle down economics does not work

[Doc Savage Fan]

Yes and as I pointed out before this only happend because he borrowed a crazy amount of money from japan to outspend the soviets.

By the time that Ronald Reagan left office in 1988 the National Debt was 2.6 Trillion. Reagan more than doubled what all the previous presidents from Washington through Carter had accumulated in the prior 200 years.

Add the fact that he signed EITC into law which is the primary reason poor people owe no net fed taxes.

Reagonics wasn't perfect but it actually worked.

 

[soulcougher73]

Reagonics wasn't perfect but it actually worked.

Sounds like bubble economics that popped.

 

[lotus503]

Reagonics wasn't perfect but it actually worked.

Its only worked because of the sheer volume of dollars borrowed from Japan and China, without them it would have failed miserably.

Our current borrow spend trend is straight from reaganomics and a miserable failure. decades of this horrible policy is why were in such bad shape now.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Its only worked because of the sheer volume of dollars borrowed from Japan and China, without them it would have failed miserably.

Our current borrow spend trend is straight from reaganomics and a miserable failure. decades of this horrible policy is why were in such bad shape now.

Reagonomics and Obamanomics are very different. Surely you know this. There have been plenty of Presidents since Reagan that could have chose to reverse his "horrible policy". Yet you lay it all on his doorstep regarding today's economic issues. Interesting.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Sounds like bubble economics that popped.

What bubble are you talking about...the tech bubble?

 

[lotus503]

Reagonomics and Obamanomics are very different. Surely you know this. There have been plenty of Presidents since Reagan that could have chose to reverse his "horrible policy". Yet you lay it all on his doorstep regarding today's economic issues. Interesting.

Fundamentally they are not real different at all. and just because no president or leader since reagan has had the balls to do anything about shitty supply side policy doesnt make supply side policy good.

Rather than talk in plattitudes regarding economics maybe you could use some math and facts in support of it? I certainly use math and logic to rip it apart.

 

[lotus503]

What bubble are you talking about...the tech bubble?

supply side econ creates asset inflation, which is just another term for bubble.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Fundamentally they are not real different at all. and just because no president or leader since reagan has had the balls to do anything about shitty supply side policy doesnt make supply side policy good.

Rather than talk in plattitudes regarding economics maybe you could use some math and facts in support of it? I certainly use math and logic to rip it apart.

What?

Here are some facts from my previous post.

"If you recall, Reagan was elected during the country's worst recession since the Great Depression. Under Reaganomics, inflation dropped from 13.5 to 4.1 percent, unemployment dropped from 9.5 to 5.2 percent, jobs increased by almost 20 million, and median family income rose every year from 1982 to 1989. Reaganomics wasn't perfect but it brought us the greatest peacetime expansion in American history."

By all means...rip these facts apart with your math and logic. Have at it.

 

[ElFenix]

What?

Here are some facts from my previous post.

"If you recall, Reagan was elected during the country's worst recession since the Great Depression. Under Reaganomics, inflation dropped from 13.5 to 4.1 percent, unemployment dropped from 9.5 to 5.2 percent, jobs increased by almost 20 million, and median family income rose every year from 1982 to 1989. Reaganomics wasn't perfect but it brought us the greatest peacetime expansion in American history."

By all means...rip these facts apart with your math and logic. Have at it.

was it reagan or the massive reduction in the real price of oil?

 

[lotus503]

What?

Here are some facts from my previous post.

"If you recall, Reagan was elected during the country's worst recession since the Great Depression. Under Reaganomics, inflation dropped from 13.5 to 4.1 percent, unemployment dropped from 9.5 to 5.2 percent, jobs increased by almost 20 million, and median family income rose every year from 1982 to 1989. Reaganomics wasn't perfect but it brought us the greatest peacetime expansion in American history."

By all means...rip these facts apart with your math and logic. Have at it.

and all of that was on the back of 2.6 trillion in debt. Mostly tax breaks and military spending i.e. supply side theory. Its not that it didnt provide a short term stimulus if you will, its that its not sustainable.

I think Supppy side has conditions where its policies are good and there are other times when Keynesians are better, what we have in this country however is supply side Dogma, which asserts it as the answer to everything, when its not.

Clinton as an example side skirted supply side failure by shitty trade agreements and riding the better side of asset inflation.

Bush Jr. - went full tilt supply side and rode the bad side of asset inflation into the toilet.

Obama claims to want to end supply side, does some Keynesian type spending but really its more supply side bullshit.

 

[Phokus]

Reagonics wasn't perfect but it actually worked.

lol, all he did was pass a mess to HW Bush.

 

[Phokus]

Reagonics wasn't perfect but it actually worked.

Which part worked, the part where Reagan raised taxes 13 times (even on the sacred holy grail capital gains taxes that conservatives 'hate' because it supposedly discourages investment), or the part where he tripled the deficit?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Which part worked, the part where Reagan raised taxes 13 times (even on the sacred holy grail capital gains taxes that conservatives 'hate' because it supposedly discourages investment), or the part where he tripled the deficit?

Do you actually care about deficits? If so, Reagan should be the least of your worries.

 

[lotus503]

Do you actually care about deficits? If so, Reagan should be the least of your worries.

I dont care at all about deficits, I care that we do not have the political will to deal with them in a meaningful way.

the appropriate response right now would be substantial demand side investment offset by a tax increase. Once the revenue base has stabilized and started to increase you ease off that policy and pay down debt, once you pay down debt you return to more supply side.

Problem is we have a massive bond bubble right now thats going to make '08 look small when it pops, we will keep screwing with supply side until that happens, Americans have to not just get fucked they have to get royally fucked before they stand in the street and demand soemthing be done.

 

[BoberFett]

Reagonomics and Obamanomics are very different. Surely you know this. There have been plenty of Presidents since Reagan that could have chose to reverse his "horrible policy". Yet you lay it all on his doorstep regarding today's economic issues. Interesting.

Actually they're not all that different. Prop up the economy and give the false appearance of prosperity through debt.

 

[BoberFett]

Do you actually care about deficits? If so, Reagan should be the least of your worries.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesgl...udget-deficits-how-the-presidents-truly-rank/

Reaganomics was no different than what we're doing now.

Clinton was helped by the tech bubble.

Bush II was helped by the housing bubble.

Obama and forward we're going to pay the price for decades worth of a false economy.

 

[lotus503]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesgl...udget-deficits-how-the-presidents-truly-rank/

Reaganomics was no different than what we're doing now.

Clinton was helped by the tech bubble.

Bush II was helped by the housing bubble.

Obama and forward we're going to pay the price for decades worth of a false economy.

/thread

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

/thread

/thread

 

[BoberFett]

Of course you both know that by agreeing with me, you're agreeing that Obama is an economic failure as well...

 

[Jhhnn]

Reagonics wasn't perfect but it actually worked.

Anybody can look good while tripling the National debt. It went from <$1T on 9/30/81 to nearly $3T on 9/30/89. It stood at $4.4T on 9/30/93 under his Repub successor, despite a slight increase in taxes.

Amazing what can be accomplished with militarized Keynesianism, huh? Too bad wwe didn't spend the money on something more useful than burying death in the desert until it became obsolete, huh?

Reagonomics and Obamanomics are very different. Surely you know this. There have been plenty of Presidents since Reagan that could have chose to reverse his "horrible policy". Yet you lay it all on his doorstep regarding today's economic issues. Interesting.

Clinton did, in fact, reverse the direction of deficits, nearly balancing the budget late in his second term. Debt rose by a mere $1.33B in FY 2000. Dubya couldn't stand it, promptly reversed course.

Yeh, I know, it was all because of a Repub congress, the same Repubs who spent like drunken sailors during the Bush years, cut taxes & engaged in 2 elective wars simultaneously.

Your comparison of the Reagan era recession to 1929 or today's situation is bogus. The Reagan era recession was induced by the FRB with high interest rates, to curb inflation & protect the value of Rich people's hoards of it. 1929 & 2008 are both balance sheet depressions. I'd suggest you learn what that means.

 

[lotus503]

Of course you both know that by agreeing with me, you're agreeing that Obama is an economic failure as well...

Correct, but I think its a systemic failure not beholden to any particular politician.

 

[Sureshot324]

"The poor and middle class spend all their money (consumerism)."

do you think that would be the case without social engieering?

I think it has more to do with human nature than social engineering.

 

[lotus503]

I think it has more to do with human nature than social engineering.

I don't otherwise there wouldn't be billions spent to create false demand.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Of course you both know that by agreeing with me, you're agreeing that Obama is an economic failure as well...

Neither Obama nor Romney's economic approach is going to really soften the blow when it comes.

 

[lotus503]

Neither Obama nor Romney's economic approach is going to really soften the blow when it comes.

exactly the last of the supply side bubbles will be bonds and soon.