Transtition from Gentoo to Debian: Easy?

[GTaudiophile]

I've been running a Gentoo box now for over 2 years. It has served me well as a basic file (SAMBA) and web server (APACHE). I am strongly considering the move to Debian when I rebuild my server later this year.

Has anyone made this transition? Anything I should know about?

 

[sourceninja]

I made the oposite move on my desktop pc, I went from debian to ubuntu to gentoo. I would say there is really no major issues to look out for. Somethings are done a little different, but you will pick that up in about 5 minutes. Just stay away from debian unstable, they are doing a abi change and a lot of stuff doesn't work.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
I made the oposite move on my desktop pc, I went from debian to ubuntu to gentoo. I would say there is really no major issues to look out for. Somethings are done a little different, but you will pick that up in about 5 minutes. Just stay away from debian unstable, they are doing a abi change and a lot of stuff doesn't work.

What is the last stable version I should download?

 

[rahvin]

I put a debain install on my laptop (gentoo on the home server) and I can't stand it. I'm probably an idiot but apt-get is not as easy to use as emerge, sure it's quicker but I don't fee like it's as logicial!

 

[groovin]

as long as u know what you want it to do, then research those points. ive only used debian briefly, but ive heard that apt-get installs lots of dependencies, so if youre used to using USE variables to trim down your Gentoo, somethign similar to that might not be in Debian. Perhaps a debain guru on here would know better.

 

[Nothinman]

What is the last stable version I should download?

Sarge.

Just stay away from debian unstable, they are doing a abi change and a lot of stuff doesn't work.

All of the X stuff has been sorted out, I just upgraded to Xorg yesterday without any issues. There is still the C++ ABI transition, but that only breaks C++ crap so you're probbaly fine unless you use KDE/QT stuff.

I put a debain install on my laptop (gentoo on the home server) and I can't stand it. I'm probably an idiot but apt-get is not as easy to use as emerge, sure it's quicker but I don't fee like it's as logicial!

How is 'apt-get install mozilla' any harder or less logical than 'emerge mozilla'? And it's recommended to use synaptic since it's a little smarter and gives you more control over the final package list, but the UI takes a while to get used to.

 

[n0cmonkey]

apt installs the proper dependencies, what's wrong with that again?

 

[groovin]

n0c, theres nothing wrong with dependency resolution, but ive heard (i said before, i am not experienced with debian so please correct me) some people complain that when they try to install some trival app, if somethign liek xorg is listed as a depend, then suddenly youre installing a bunch of stuff that might not be needed to run the program minimally. of course i dont think the problem is severe as some guys say they are, just throwing it out in case someone can chime in on it.

 

[Nothinman]

That can be true for things like mplayer that support aalib in addition to X output, since the package is compiled with X support it requires the base X libs be installed. But if you really care about the disk space, you can use 'apt-get source' to get the source and rebuild the package yourself.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
That can be true for things like mplayer that support aalib in addition to X output, since the package is compiled with X support it requires the base X libs be installed. But if you really care about the disk space, you can use 'apt-get source' to get the source and rebuild the package yourself.

Isn't that just like emerge mplayer with a -X in your make.conf?

The problem I have with apt-get is it wouldn't let me do apt-get update <app>, maybe I don't understand the syntax but when I did apt-get update it wanted to update everything, not just the single app.

 

[pitupepito2000]

the way you do it is "aptitude install package" and it will try to install the latest version in this case it will update your package. Also aptitude is better than apt-get. If you want to know why aptitude is better than apt-get read : http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=111649

 

[Nothinman]

The problem I have with apt-get is it wouldn't let me do apt-get update <app>, maybe I don't understand the syntax but when I did apt-get update it wanted to update everything, not just the single app.

If you only want to update a specific packge you just do 'apt-get install <app>'.

 

[sourceninja]

You can also use synaptic to update a single app by finding it in the gui and selecting the version of it you want. But i'm an aptitude man myself when I have to use debian. Personally, I find gentoo eaiser to get exactly what I want. Ebuilds are a little easier to make then debs when there is a package you can't find. Plus USE flags let you save space and time by limiting what the app depends on (like why would I want X support for links). That said, both are really nice distros and are really easy to use and maintain, although some features like runlevels are handled a lot better in gentoo then in debian (rc-update rules). Debian handles a lot of things for you such as reverse dependances (no need for revdep-update) and it rarley breaks in stable, but when it does I find it breaks really bad (although you did something to deserve it). You should also look at ubuntu, I find it a lot better to work with then debain (updated more frequently and still has great package choices). For a server I just pick their server install which gives you a bare minimu of software (just enough to get to a bash prompt and use apt). Then I use apt or aptitude to install just the stuff I want for my server.

My question is, if you already have a working machine, why do you want to change it?

BTW to reinstall or update a program in debian I belive it is apt-get install --reinstall blahblah

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
If you only want to update a specific packge you just do 'apt-get install <app>'.

If the package is already installed why do I want to install it? Don't I want to update it?

 

[Nothinman]

If the package is already installed why do I want to install it? Don't I want to update it?

I guess you could look at it as correct by saying that you're telling apt to install the latest version of the package, whether a version is installed already or not.

If you want to argue semantics, wtf does 'emerge' mean?

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

If the package is already installed why do I want to install it? Don't I want to update it?

I guess you could look at it as correct by saying that you're telling apt to install the latest version of the package, whether a version is installed already or not.

If you want to argue semantics, wtf does 'emerge' mean?

Main Entry: emerge
Pronunciation: i-'m&rj
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): emerged; emerg·ing
Etymology: Latin emergere, from e- + mergere to plunge -- more at MERGE
1 : to become manifest
2 : to rise from or as if from an enveloping fluid : come out into view
3 : to rise from an obscure or inferior position or condition
4 : to come into being through evolution



I bet some damn german wrote apt-get, you can probably apt-get seig heil and it'll install a nazi.

 

[Nothinman]

I didn't mean dictionary meaning, I know what the word means literally =) I meant how the hell does it relate to software installation. If you ever thought "Man I can't wait to emerge this software into my computer" before knowing the command from Gentoo, there's something wrong with you =)

And from some perspective a nazi did write apt, Debian are definately in the top 5 list of license nazis =)

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
I didn't mean dictionary meaning, I know what the word means literally =) I meant how the hell does it relate to software installation. If you ever thought "Man I can't wait to emerge this software into my computer" before knowing the command from Gentoo, there's something wrong with you =)

And from some perspective a nazi did write apt, Debian are definately in the top 5 list of license nazis =)

You are just jelous of my expanded and affluent oriented vocabulary. I of course have always wanted to emerge software.

Seriously though, I find emerge's command set to be extremely intuitive, I can't say the same thing about apt-get and the only conclusion I can draw is someone foreign wrote apt-get and someone american wrote emerge. I find linux has a lot of idiosyncroncies though because of the international development.

 

[nweaver]

I am a heavy gentoo user, and installed Ubuntu Server today. Apt-get hell trying to get stuff to work. It doesn't even come with a compiler!!

I did an apt-get gcc and then I still had to get an apt-get g++

still having issue. I'm not really pleased. I liked the desktop install, but the server install is a pita so far.

 

[bersl2]

Gentlemen, congratulations on Godwinning the thread. I stand in awe of your semiological skills.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: nweaver
I am a heavy gentoo user, and installed Ubuntu Server today. Apt-get hell trying to get stuff to work. It doesn't even come with a compiler!!

I did an apt-get gcc and then I still had to get an apt-get g++

still having issue. I'm not really pleased. I liked the desktop install, but the server install is a pita so far.

*comfort* I feel your pain, based on my experience Debian will never be on my server. It'd be redhat before Debian ever had a chance.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Well, I had no issues installing Gentoo and getting it to do what I wanted it to do. So, why not stick with it I suppose?

(Though I have not updated the kernel or anything else on that rig for 2 years. It just runs fine 24/7, doing what I want it to do.)

 

[Nothinman]

I am a heavy gentoo user, and installed Ubuntu Server today. Apt-get hell trying to get stuff to work. It doesn't even come with a compiler!!

You shouldn't have a compiler on a server.

(Though I have not updated the kernel or anything else on that rig for 2 years. It just runs fine 24/7, doing what I want it to do.)

So you're essentially asking for a break-in, eh?

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I am a heavy gentoo user, and installed Ubuntu Server today. Apt-get hell trying to get stuff to work. It doesn't even come with a compiler!!

You shouldn't have a compiler on a server.

(Though I have not updated the kernel or anything else on that rig for 2 years. It just runs fine 24/7, doing what I want it to do.)

So you're essentially asking for a break-in, eh?

I need a compiler to compile the app that the server is running for. The debian repository is 2.1ish and it's about to realease 3.2 (and no longer support the old version). The new version has features we want. I may remove it when I'm done, but I don't see why. But then, look at my background (heavy Gentoo, where a compiler is FAR from optional).

And I disagree on RedHat. I get pissed every time I have to do something on our redhat servers. Their LVM/EXT custom stuff breaks our Altiris Imaging solution too.

And as far as breakin on an old server. If it doesn't have any world facing ports, and you trust your other security stuff...

 

[Nothinman]

The debian repository is 2.1ish and it's about to realease 3.2 (and no longer support the old version).

Maybe I'm tired, but I can't figure out what that sentence is supposed to mean.