As stated before, I think you, as the left turner, should turn into the leftmost lane, and the right turner should turn into the right most lane. If there was an accident like the diagram provided, I have no idea who would be at fault...
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
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Both drivers are wrong. When making a left hand turn, you are obligated to turn into the left-most lane. The driver making the right hand turn is obligated to turn into the right-most lane. Only after you have established position in your respective lanes, can you merge into other lanes. Edited pic to show the technically "proper" turns to have made.
ZV
When you make a left-hand turn, you always turn into the lane that is closest to you. So the blue guy was at fault.
nik
nik
what edro13 is saying is that the person turning left doesn't know (for sure) if the person turning right has a YIELD sign, as the person turning left only sees the back of the sign.
I believe that if there were no yield sign, he would have the right of way. Since he has the yield sign, you have the right of way. Since that right hand turn lane is seperate from the main lane, it is a turn-right-anytime lane (ie no signal, unless there is a signal that you haven't mentioned). So, the only way you can control that lane of traffic is to give them a yield sign. This means that they can turn right whenever they want, but they have to make sure that the lane(s) is(are) clear for them to turn into. This is an effective setup, and the most logical one, because when the lanes of traffic they were connected to get the green, then there is no one to get in their way, and traffic can stream out of the right turn lane until it is clear for left turns or the opposite direction traffic gets the green.
Next time someone honks at you, honk back at them to tell them that they are wrong. If you keep letting too many people honk at you on that turn, it will set a precedent and then people won't care what the rules are, they will just think they are right
. The right turners are most definitely wrong here.
Edit: Oh yeh, and as other people have said, you are supposed to turn into the nearest lane. So in the end, both of you are wrong for doing that. However, if you turn into a farther lane, and then the guy at the yield turns into you and hits you, you will get a ticket for turning into the wrong lane, he will be liable for the accident. However, if the guy has a fast talking lawyer, the lawyer may be able to convince a judge that the accident wouldn't have happened if you hadn't turned into the farthest lane. However, the right turning guy is still at fault. I guess you can make your turn into an open lane and then jockey for a position into the right lane as quickly as possible.
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Next time someone honks at you, honk back at them to tell them that they are wrong. If you keep letting too many people honk at you on that turn, it will set a precedent and then people won't care what the rules are, they will just think they are right
. The right turners are most definitely wrong here.Edit: Oh yeh, and as other people have said, you are supposed to turn into the nearest lane. So in the end, both of you are wrong for doing that. However, if you turn into a farther lane, and then the guy at the yield turns into you and hits you, you will get a ticket for turning into the wrong lane, he will be liable for the accident. However, if the guy has a fast talking lawyer, the lawyer may be able to convince a judge that the accident wouldn't have happened if you hadn't turned into the farthest lane. However, the right turning guy is still at fault. I guess you can make your turn into an open lane and then jockey for a position into the right lane as quickly as possible.
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Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
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No, the left-turner is wrong. It's simply not legal to make a left turn into the right lane. You are legally required to use the left lane when making a left turn. Both drivers are at fault, but I think the blue car is moreso since the person making the right turn almost certainly assumed that the blue car would make the turn properly instead of doing a turn and double lane change simultaneously.Originally posted by: bleckywelcky
Next time someone honks at you, honk back at them to tell them that they are wrong. If you keep letting too many people honk at you on that turn, it will set a precedent and then people won't care what the rules are, they will just think they are right
ZV
Both drivers are wrong. When making a left hand turn, you are obligated to turn into the left-most lane. The driver making the right hand turn is obligated to turn into the right-most lane. Only after you have established position in your respective lanes, can you merge into other lanes. Edited pic to show the technically "proper" turns to have made.
ZV[/quote]
ZV is correct, as usual. If you need to make that immediate right turn, you need to be careful, because those other drivers are simply not expecting you to just shoot across the road like that.
DING DING DING we have a winner. In theory both should be able to turn at the same time if you are both following the rules. If you hit where you have drawn, not only will the police probably scratch their heads, but you both would probably end up with tickets.
No, just the other guy would get a ticket....I'd get a personalized body bag. I just about got nailed by some woman this morning (turning right) who shot all the way over into the left lane right off the bat. I generally try to get into the middle lane and then work my way over, but it's difficult since I'm only going 20-ish mph (bicycle, remember) and the people turning right are already accelerating past me and are then all pissed off that I'm in the middle of the road. This is a good example of how Atlanta just isn't set up well for bike commuters.
Anywho, thanks for the input all. Seems that I'll just have to watch my ass making this turn every morning. I was just curious about the legality of the situation in case someone does finally manage to run me over.
i think you have the right of way but i'm guessing most people won't know that. so i'd be really careful regardless.
Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
get one of those personal air-horns and blast them
Hehe...I would love to if I could figure out how to mount and power one on my bike. That would rule. Imagine blithely driving along in your car to work, suddenly having the sh*t scared out of you by a 130db WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!! and turning around to see some guy on a mountain bike giving you the bird.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
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The left turn has the right of way because in that case the right turn is merging (note the lane) and the left turn has completed the turn and is going straight. Thus it's no longer a left vs. right, but a straight vs. merge, at which point the merge must yeild.
Edit: In California, if you are in the outside most lane you can choose ANY lane not taken up by the inner lanes. And in this case, that means ANY of the three lanes. There ARE intersections like this around my area (Sacramento, Folsom, Placerville), they're quite common actually. Forcing left turns to choose the inner most lane doesn't make sense in alot of intersections because that would mean that he'd immediately have to make two lane changes to get to the outside, which is more hazardous than just going there in the first place. And there shouldn't be anyone in the outside lanes at that point anyways.
Edit: In California, if you are in the outside most lane you can choose ANY lane not taken up by the inner lanes. And in this case, that means ANY of the three lanes. There ARE intersections like this around my area (Sacramento, Folsom, Placerville), they're quite common actually. Forcing left turns to choose the inner most lane doesn't make sense in alot of intersections because that would mean that he'd immediately have to make two lane changes to get to the outside, which is more hazardous than just going there in the first place. And there shouldn't be anyone in the outside lanes at that point anyways.
If you're afraid of getting hit while riding your bike through this intersection, why don't you just use the crosswalk?
Originally posted by: ATLien247
If you're afraid of getting hit while riding your bike through this intersection, why don't you just use the crosswalk?
A) There isn't one.
B) A bicycle is legally considered a vehicle on the road, and is thus supposed to use the turn lanes and signals and everything else like a car. I initially left out the bit about me being on a bike since I didn't want to sidetrack the thread with the whole "bikes on the road" debate since the laws regarding bikes and cars are essentially the same.
The guy turning right always has to give the right of way to all oncoming traffic (yield) but he can turn anytime he feels like it as long as no "established" traffic are coming, even when there is traffic heading from the eastern area of your map (there's alot of one-way streets there huh?).. so if you can make it to the leftmost lane, and then slowly change lanes to the right, then he will have to yield to you, but if you go directly to the right, then there will be an accident and you will be at fault cause you didn't move to the left first.
Originally posted by: Fausto1
Originally posted by: ThisIsMatt
get one of those personal air-horns and blast them
Hehe...I would love to if I could figure out how to mount and power one on my bike. That would rule. Imagine blithely driving along in your car to work, suddenly having the sh*t scared out of you by a 130db WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!! and turning around to see some guy on a mountain bike giving you the bird.
Hehe You can get them, it's basically a can of compressed air with a horn on the top, and you just press it. I see and hear them at sporting events all the time (not the bull horn that people blow through). I'm sure you could rig it up on your handle bars somehow.. even duct-tape would work
Hehe.....the irony is that this is really the only busy road that I even cross, much less ride on. The rest of my route is through neighborhoods and parks that are either inaccessable to cars or just don't get a lot of traffic since they're not good "cut-through" routes.
The root problem is that Atlanta is a terrible city to ride a bike in (narrow roads, very few bike paths/lanes, aggressive drivers, etc). This route is pretty much the best I could do. I don't need a zillion confrontations with motorists first thing in the morning, so I chose this route even though it's far from the most direct.
I cross an intersection like this often. Not sure what the law is, but in practice it seems like the car making the right yields to the car making the left since technically:
A) the oncoming car doesn't cross your intended path so you don't have to yield to it
B) by the time you get to the yield, you are on the other street and he now has to yield to you.
Another problem is people don't know how to behave when bikes are on the road. I was turning right at an intersection and there was a cyclist to my right going straight. So I waited for the cyclist to go across instead of trying to cut in front of him and the punk behind me starts laying on his horn. WTF!
A) the oncoming car doesn't cross your intended path so you don't have to yield to it
B) by the time you get to the yield, you are on the other street and he now has to yield to you.
Another problem is people don't know how to behave when bikes are on the road. I was turning right at an intersection and there was a cyclist to my right going straight. So I waited for the cyclist to go across instead of trying to cut in front of him and the punk behind me starts laying on his horn. WTF!
Welcome to my world. I deal with idiots like that every time I'm commuting or out training. Oh well. <shrugs>
HomeBrewerDude
Lifer
- Jan 18, 2001
- 14,465
- 1
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Their yield sign gives you the right of way. However, if you were half the man you claim to be, your would be cycling into work instead of driving. ;0
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