[TR] FreeSync monitors will sample next month, start selling next year

[BrightCandle]

The list of lies around AMD and Freesync are astounding though. Off the top of my head:
- Firmware upgrades because no additional hardware needed.
- Available for sale by the end of 2014 (now saying 2015).
- Freesync would have no additional cost.
- Existing scalars already supported it.
- The full range of AMD cards would support it (turns out only 290 and other latest models do).
- It would be standards based (partially true but the distinction between Freesync and adaptive sync make it clear its not just standards based).
- Huddy telling everyone Gsync added a frame of latency when we had reviews out saying the opposite.
- That they had demos showing Freesync working - they have to this day only shown fixed refresh rate demos, never variable rate refresh.

They still haven't technically explained how it works either. It certainly works quite different to gsync, because in gsync the monitor is still in control of when it refreshes, whereas in Freesync it sounds like its the GPU. But that does have a lot of potential technical issues with overdrive so they really do need to explain how its going to work.

Still no news on models, refresh rates etc that will be coming out, no details of partners etc. This is a product we are meant to be buying in 4 months time and we don't yet even know who is intending to make a Freesync monitor. What AMD chooses to tell us is just strange, it spreads a lot of lies and then doesn't actually explain the things about its solution it needs to. Its hard to know if it will actually be any good when released or not, we just know that about 80% of what AMD has said up to this point about the technology has been wrong.

 

[Eymar]

Wow. I post a thread sharing the good news that some cool tech will be more widely available soon, and it turns into a five page rant fest full of accusations of lying and deceit. For the love of god, I don't know why I even bother with this place any more.

Yeah it's a broken record, but you get use to it and just filter out the noise In the end this is a good step for adaptive sync and the next being hands on previews next month. My hope is that there is a 27-30" 4k version out next year (adaptive sync or Gsync).

 

[Phynaz]

Wow. I post a thread sharing the good news that some cool tech will be more widely available soon, and it turns into a five page rant fest full of accusations of lying and deceit. For the love of god, I don't know why I even bother with this place any more.

Yep, most people posting in this thread should ashamed to call themselves tech enthusiasts.

 

[sontin]

Because they call AMD out about their Vaporsync? D:

 

[SoulWager]

Using the forum search function to get countless results showing anti AMD trolls posting their own opinions is not proof.



I once again ask you to think rationally. Just because YOU aren't interested in adaptive vsync to save power on the desktop doesn't mean that the millions of people buying CPU's with onboard GPU's from intel and amd do not care about that extra power usage. Stop thinking in terms of enthusiasts. If 10,000 monitors and workstations in a massive office building are all suddenly using less power that is something that companies will upgrade for thus buying new Intel chips. This is why I believe others are going to follow AMD in supporting the standard.

Intel and ARM are all about lowering power usage on all fronts. The writing is on the wall. You just need to take your nvidia shrine off said wall to see it. Gsync is a great idea. I said one of the companies needed to make that exact technology in a thread a few months before we had heard anything about Gsync. The problem is that Nvidia's exclusionary tactics are a losing proposition in this instance. My opinions have nothing to do with my feeling to either nvidia or amd.

The primary motivation for decreasing power consumption on mobile devices is increasing battery life without increasing weight, and it's extremely important in that market segment.

On the desktop, the primary motivation for decreasing power usage is heat dissipation(small form factor cases and fan noise, which aren't really relevant to a passively cooled desktop monitor). Nobody is going to spend 50 bucks more on a monitor to save a buck a year on electricity.

 

[96Firebird]

The primary motivation for decreasing power consumption on mobile devices is increasing battery life without increasing weight, and it's extremely important in that market segment.

On the desktop, the primary motivation for decreasing power usage is heat dissipation(small form factor cases and fan noise, which aren't really relevant to a passively cooled desktop monitor). Nobody is going to spend 50 bucks more on a monitor to save a buck a year on electricity.

eDP already has power saving features, called PSR. Looks like the wiki article is a little dated for this section, as they talk about future power savings in 2012. I wonder how far they've come now.

 

[SoulWager]

eDP already has power saving features, called PSR. Looks like the wiki article is a little dated for this section, as they talk about future power savings in 2012. I wonder how far they've come now.

G-sync does PSR, a-sync/freesync does not. It might save a watt or two, which simply isn't relevant on the desktop. GPUs can be driven below 5w idle even without PSR or variable refresh.

 

[Abwx]

GPUs can be driven below 5w idle even without PSR or variable refresh.

Only AMD GPUs manage 5W or less at idle, Nvidia is at double this value, roughly....

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/925-3/consommation.html

 

[AtenRa]

January 6, 2014

AMD Demonstrates "FreeSync", Free G-Sync Alternative, at CES 2014

June 5, 2014

Computex 2014: AMD Demonstrates First FreeSync Monitor Prototype

At this point AMD is emphasizing that while they were able to get FreeSync up and running on existing hardware, owners shouldn’t be expecting firmware updates as this is very unlikely to happen (though this is ultimately up to monitor manufacturers). Instead AMD is using it to demonstrate that existing panels and scalers already exist that are capable of variable refresh, and that retail monitors should not require significant/expensive technology upgrades. Meanwhile AMD is also holding to their earlier projection of 6-12 months for retail monitor availability with retail prototypes expected around September, which puts final retail availability potentially as early as very late this year, but more likely into the first half of 2015.

 

[Mand]

January 6, 2014

AMD Demonstrates "FreeSync", Free G-Sync Alternative, at CES 2014

June 5, 2014

Computex 2014: AMD Demonstrates First FreeSync Monitor Prototype

Very good example of AMD's lies.

To anyone wondering why we don't trust AMD anymore in regards to FreeSync, brightcandle summarized nicely:

The list of lies around AMD and Freesync are astounding though. Off the top of my head:
- Firmware upgrades because no additional hardware needed.
- Available for sale by the end of 2014 (now saying 2015).
- Freesync would have no additional cost.
- Existing scalars already supported it.
- The full range of AMD cards would support it (turns out only 290 and other latest models do).
- It would be standards based (partially true but the distinction between Freesync and adaptive sync make it clear its not just standards based).
- Huddy telling everyone Gsync added a frame of latency when we had reviews out saying the opposite.
- That they had demos showing Freesync working - they have to this day only shown fixed refresh rate demos, never variable rate refresh.

They still haven't technically explained how it works either. It certainly works quite different to gsync, because in gsync the monitor is still in control of when it refreshes, whereas in Freesync it sounds like its the GPU. But that does have a lot of potential technical issues with overdrive so they really do need to explain how its going to work.

Still no news on models, refresh rates etc that will be coming out, no details of partners etc. This is a product we are meant to be buying in 4 months time and we don't yet even know who is intending to make a Freesync monitor. What AMD chooses to tell us is just strange, it spreads a lot of lies and then doesn't actually explain the things about its solution it needs to. Its hard to know if it will actually be any good when released or not, we just know that about 80% of what AMD has said up to this point about the technology has been wrong.

 

[Leadbox]

January 6, 2014

AMD Demonstrates "FreeSync", Free G-Sync Alternative, at CES 2014

June 5, 2014

Computex 2014: AMD Demonstrates First FreeSync Monitor Prototype

It has certainly progressed a lot faster than I expected, will be very interesting to see what they can show with the sample monitors next month.

 

[Mand]

It has certainly progressed a lot faster than I expected, will be very interesting to see what they can show with the sample monitors next month.

This isn't progress!

They haven't demonstrated working frame-by-frame variable refresh. How does transferring something that doesn't show variable refresh from a laptop to something that doesn't show variable refresh on a desktop count as progress?

 

[Leadbox]

This isn't progress!

They haven't demonstrated working frame-by-frame variable refresh. How does transferring something that doesn't show variable refresh from a laptop to something that doesn't show variable refresh on a desktop count as progress?

This is all happening well within their given/expected timeline, I see it as progress you don't and that is fine. Lets see what next month brings.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

The list of lies around AMD and Freesync are astounding though. Off the top of my head:
- Firmware upgrades because no additional hardware needed.
- Available for sale by the end of 2014 (now saying 2015).
- Freesync would have no additional cost.
- Existing scalars already supported it.
- The full range of AMD cards would support it (turns out only 290 and other latest models do).
- It would be standards based (partially true but the distinction between Freesync and adaptive sync make it clear its not just standards based).
- Huddy telling everyone Gsync added a frame of latency when we had reviews out saying the opposite.
- That they had demos showing Freesync working - they have to this day only shown fixed refresh rate demos, never variable rate refresh.

They still haven't technically explained how it works either. It certainly works quite different to gsync, because in gsync the monitor is still in control of when it refreshes, whereas in Freesync it sounds like its the GPU. But that does have a lot of potential technical issues with overdrive so they really do need to explain how its going to work.

Still no news on models, refresh rates etc that will be coming out, no details of partners etc. This is a product we are meant to be buying in 4 months time and we don't yet even know who is intending to make a Freesync monitor. What AMD chooses to tell us is just strange, it spreads a lot of lies and then doesn't actually explain the things about its solution it needs to. Its hard to know if it will actually be any good when released or not, we just know that about 80% of what AMD has said up to this point about the technology has been wrong.

Very good example of AMD's lies.

To anyone wondering why we don't trust AMD anymore in regards to FreeSync, brightcandle summarized nicely:

You guys are hilarious.

At this point AMD is emphasizing that while they were able to get FreeSync up and running on existing hardware, owners shouldn’t be expecting firmware updates as this is very unlikely to happen (though this is ultimately up to monitor manufacturers). Instead AMD is using it to demonstrate that existing panels and scalers already exist that are capable of variable refresh, and that retail monitors should not require significant/expensive technology upgrades. Meanwhile AMD is also holding to their earlier projection of 6-12 months for retail monitor availability with retail prototypes expected around September, which puts final retail availability potentially as early as very late this year, but more likely into the first half of 2015.

- Firmware upgrades because no additional hardware needed.

At this point AMD is emphasizing that while they were able to get FreeSync up and running on existing hardware, owners shouldn’t be expecting firmware updates as this is very unlikely to happen (though this is ultimately up to monitor manufacturers).

Owners shouldn't be expexting updates as this is very unlikely to happen.

- Available for sale by the end of 2014 (now saying 2015).

Meanwhile AMD is also holding to their earlier projection of 6-12 months for retail monitor availability with retail prototypes expected around September, which puts final retail availability potentially as early as very late this year, but more likely into the first half of 2015.

2015. Prototypes in September. Seems like they are still on course.

- Freesync would have no additional cost.
They said this back during a time when the only way to get a Gsync monitor was a $200 add in board.

- Existing scalars already supported it.
Existing scalers already supported the eDP standard which allowed them to change refresh rate on their hacked demo. Not the same as saying the final product won't require a new scaler.

- The full range of AMD cards would support it (turns out only 290 and other latest models do).
This was back at a time when they were using eDP scalers to hack together a prototype. They never said that all AMD gpu's would support whatever addendums were added to the displayport standard. They could run the eDP hack prototype on a kaveri APU.

- It would be standards based (partially true but the distinction between Freesync and adaptive sync make it clear its not just standards based).
Adaptive sync is the standard. Freesync is AMD's driver implementation to RUN the standard.

- Huddy telling everyone Gsync added a frame of latency when we had reviews out saying the opposite.
There is a big difference between being uninformed based on your technical advisers best guess about a product they didn't understand yet and outright lying.

- That they had demos showing Freesync working - they have to this day only shown fixed refresh rate demos, never variable rate refresh.
I have never seen a dinosaur therefore they don't exist. I've never seen DX12 it doesn't exist. I have never seen Windows 10 so it doesn't exist. I have never seen Europe so it doesn't exist.

It's obvious to me that none of you are capable of rational thought where AMD is concerned. Next time someone has a Freesync topic just name it "VESA Adaptive Sync" and leave AMD out. I'm sure the trolls won't even enter the thread to post. All of this is a prime example of why NDA's exist. Being open about your new technology and its development only creates problems.

 

[AtenRa]

Very good example of AMD's lies.

To anyone wondering why we don't trust AMD anymore in regards to FreeSync, brightcandle summarized nicely:

Did you buy a FreeSync capable monitor and it didnt work as advertized ??

 

[waffleironhead]

The list of lies around AMD and Freesync are astounding though. Off the top of my head:
- Firmware upgrades because no additional hardware needed.
- Available for sale by the end of 2014 (now saying 2015).
- Freesync would have no additional cost.
- Existing scalars already supported it.
- The full range of AMD cards would support it (turns out only 290 and other latest models do).
- It would be standards based (partially true but the distinction between Freesync and adaptive sync make it clear its not just standards based).
- Huddy telling everyone Gsync added a frame of latency when we had reviews out saying the opposite.
- That they had demos showing Freesync working - they have to this day only shown fixed refresh rate demos, never variable rate refresh.

They still haven't technically explained how it works either. It certainly works quite different to gsync, because in gsync the monitor is still in control of when it refreshes, whereas in Freesync it sounds like its the GPU. But that does have a lot of potential technical issues with overdrive so they really do need to explain how its going to work.

Still no news on models, refresh rates etc that will be coming out, no details of partners etc. This is a product we are meant to be buying in 4 months time and we don't yet even know who is intending to make a Freesync monitor. What AMD chooses to tell us is just strange, it spreads a lot of lies and then doesn't actually explain the things about its solution it needs to. Its hard to know if it will actually be any good when released or not, we just know that about 80% of what AMD has said up to this point about the technology has been wrong.

Do you have sources for these lies? I'd like to read where amd stated all these things. That's some pretty damning stuff.

 

[rgallant]

The full Adaptive-Sync needs a advanced display controller in the GPU. Only GCN 1.1 gpus support this.

and for gsnync you need this:
GSYNC is Nvidia GeForce only. For now, these graphics cards will be G-Sync compatible: GTX TITAN series, GTX 780 (Ti), GTX 770, GTX 760, GTX 690, GTX 680, GTX 670, GTX 660 Ti, GTX 660, GTX 650 Ti Boost. You need to be running Windows 7 or higher as operating system.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/asus-rog-swift-pg278q-gsync-gaming-monitor-review,5.html
-sort of excludes most nv users

 

[ShintaiDK]

and for gsnync you need this:
GSYNC is Nvidia GeForce only. For now, these graphics cards will be G-Sync compatible: GTX TITAN series, GTX 780 (Ti), GTX 770, GTX 760, GTX 690, GTX 680, GTX 670, GTX 660 Ti, GTX 660, GTX 650 Ti Boost. You need to be running Windows 7 or higher as operating system.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/asus-rog-swift-pg278q-gsync-gaming-monitor-review,5.html
-sort of excludes most nv users

So what you say is nVidia buyers the last 2-2½ year can use gsync. While AMD users need to have bought one within the last 10 months?

 

[SoulWager]

Only AMD GPUs manage 5W or less at idle, Nvidia is at double this value, roughly....

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/925-3/consommation.html

750 Ti and R7 260x both idle at 4w according to techpowerup, and that includes the whole video card, not just the GPU. PSR allows the GPU to shut down when nothing's changing over many frames, but the software and drivers still have to tell the GPU when it's okay to take a nap. There is no guarantee that GPUs supporting variable refresh will get driver updates for that power saving mode.

 

[rgallant]

So what you say is nVidia buyers the last 2-2½ year can use gsync. While AMD users need to have bought one within the last 10 months?

i was just pointing out both need certain card ack's to work , that seemed to be missing in the statement I quoted.

 

[Mand]

You guys are hilarious.

Well that's a great way to engage in a constructive discussion. Showing disrespect always makes people take you more seriously :awe:

- Firmware upgrades because no additional hardware needed.

A lie told by AMD. They later said that the whole point of FreeSync was to encourage display manufacturers to develop the necessary hardware.

Owners shouldn't be expexting updates as this is very unlikely to happen

"unlikely" is an understatement, since "impossible" is the actual situation.

- Available for sale by the end of 2014 (now saying 2015).

2015. Prototypes in September. Seems like they are still on course.

Unverifiable.

- Freesync would have no additional cost.
They said this back during a time when the only way to get a Gsync monitor was a $200 add in board.

A lie. It doesn't matter how much G-Sync costs, "no additional cost" is a complete untruth.

- Existing scalars already supported it.
Existing scalers already supported the eDP standard which allowed them to change refresh rate on their hacked demo. Not the same as saying the final product won't require a new scaler.

No existing scaler has been demonstrated to be capable of variable refresh. Nvidia said that they investigated that possibility, found nothing available, hence the creation of the G-Sync module. If existing scalers supported it, why didn't AMD demonstrate that?

- The full range of AMD cards would support it (turns out only 290 and other latest models do).
This was back at a time when they were using eDP scalers to hack together a prototype. They never said that all AMD gpu's would support whatever addendums were added to the displayport standard. They could run the eDP hack prototype on a kaveri APU.

They had no prototype. They had a deliberate deception that did not demonstrate what they claimed it demonstrated.

- It would be standards based (partially true but the distinction between Freesync and adaptive sync make it clear its not just standards based).
Adaptive sync is the standard. Freesync is AMD's driver implementation to RUN the standard.

At CES, AMD described FreeSync as open and available to everyone. Later, it became clear that it required Radeons. That's a reversal, at the very least. Yes, A-Sync and FreeSync aren't the same thing, something not even AMD's own FAQ has been able to correct in the minds of the rabid forum defenders.

- Huddy telling everyone Gsync added a frame of latency when we had reviews out saying the opposite.
There is a big difference between being uninformed based on your technical advisers best guess about a product they didn't understand yet and outright lying.

There is a big difference between being wrong once and repeating it over the course of weeks despite being immediately corrected. If you repeat something you know is untrue, that's called a lie.

- That they had demos showing Freesync working - they have to this day only shown fixed refresh rate demos, never variable rate refresh.
I have never seen a dinosaur therefore they don't exist. I've never seen DX12 it doesn't exist. I have never seen Windows 10 so it doesn't exist. I have never seen Europe so it doesn't exist.

They claimed the demos showed FreeSync working. The demos did not show FreeSync working. That's a lie.

It's obvious to me that none of you are capable of rational thought where AMD is concerned. Next time someone has a Freesync topic just name it "VESA Adaptive Sync" and leave AMD out. I'm sure the trolls won't even enter the thread to post. All of this is a prime example of why NDA's exist. Being open about your new technology and its development only creates problems.

It's obvious to me you're more interested in tearing down and insulting people than actually getting to the truth.

Have a nice day.

 

[SoulWager]

Do you have sources for these lies? I'd like to read where amd stated all these things. That's some pretty damning stuff.

Go read all the articles about AMD's demo at CES, and then look at anandtech's slow motion video of the CES demo, where it's pretty clear the freesync side of the demo is running in v-sync at a fixed 50hz refresh rate.(this is possible on pretty much any display)

Basically, all the press were left with the impression AMD was demonstrating variable refresh on existing, shipped, hardware, which is not actually possible. They did the exact same trick at Computex, but hiding the framerate display so it wasn't as obvious. Most of the stuff brightcandle listed was said in interviews following CES.

 

[sontin]

i was just pointing out both need certain card ack's to work , that seemed to be missing in the statement I quoted.

No, it is not missing. G-Sync is supported by "every" Kepler card since March 2012 while for the whole Adaptive-Sync spec you need on of the latest AMD cards. And that is the reason why it is unlikely that every vendor can support the whole A-V spec outside of AMD at this moment.

 

[Leadbox]

No, it is not missing. G-Sync is supported by "every" Kepler card since March 2012 while for the whole Adaptive-Sync spec you need on of the latest AMD cards. And that is the reason why it is unlikely that every vendor can support the whole A-V spec outside of AMD at this moment.

That is why having it added to the dp spec and not going it alone a la gsync is a smart move and anyone can use it in theory, now all we need is demo that satisfies Mand.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Well that's a great way to engage in a constructive discussion. Showing disrespect always makes people take you more seriously :awe:

A lie told by AMD. They later said that the whole point of FreeSync was to encourage display manufacturers to develop the necessary hardware.

"unlikely" is an understatement, since "impossible" is the actual situation.

Unverifiable.

A lie. It doesn't matter how much G-Sync costs, "no additional cost" is a complete untruth.

No existing scaler has been demonstrated to be capable of variable refresh. Nvidia said that they investigated that possibility, found nothing available, hence the creation of the G-Sync module. If existing scalers supported it, why didn't AMD demonstrate that?

They had no prototype. They had a deliberate deception that did not demonstrate what they claimed it demonstrated.

At CES, AMD described FreeSync as open and available to everyone. Later, it became clear that it required Radeons. That's a reversal, at the very least. Yes, A-Sync and FreeSync aren't the same thing, something not even AMD's own FAQ has been able to correct in the minds of the rabid forum defenders.

There is a big difference between being wrong once and repeating it over the course of weeks despite being immediately corrected. If you repeat something you know is untrue, that's called a lie.

They claimed the demos showed FreeSync working. The demos did not show FreeSync working. That's a lie.

It's obvious to me you're more interested in tearing down and insulting people than actually getting to the truth.

Have a nice day.

I don't understand how you can come to these conclusions. The ANANDTECH article is right there. Unless my reading comprehension is completely off basically every one of those so called lies is outright contradicted by the Anandtech article from Computex 2014.

You talk about a great way to start a conversation. Let's talk about a great way to ruin a thread. If you aren't interested in constructively talking about Freesync and Adaptive sync go post in a Gsync thread. No one is stopping you. You'll notice I'm absent from Nvidia threads on these forums because I don't have anything to say, negative or positive.

If you don't have anything but negative to say about AMD why are you wasting all this time and energy on your FUD?