[TR] FreeSync monitors will sample next month, start selling next year

[DarkKnightDude]

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. At least some sites will get a hands on impression by next month.

 

[Silverforce11]

i've posted the reason in the other FS threads, but they keep getting locked for some reason. so for the umpteenth time:

GS is in a perilous situation (corporate beancounter-wise). vendors need to order enough GS control units to justify the millions of dollars required for NV to fab an asic GS chip. if they cant get enough consumer interest to persuade the vendors, then GS will die on the vine.

If vesa's adaptive sync is a default standard in the long term as eventually all low end display controllers enable it, the vendors are more inclined to play a waiting game to see who comes out on top. This waiting threatens adoption of GS, as you need wide level enthusiasm to convince vendors to buy in.

if FS performs well enough, or if intel decides to jump into the mix with their own version using vesa-AS; not enough vendors are going to bother with GS to justify the asic expenditure or a $200 premium for the fpga version.

its pretty silly as it probably wouldnt be that hard for nv to make something to work with AS.

So you are basically saying the haters are doing it because they feel threatened that GS is going to die in a fire due to the $200 premium and poor adoption rate?

Surely, GS *must* be superior since its got an expensive addon hardware module to support it. If its the superior solution then surely there must be lots willing to pay extra for it.

So no need to feel threaten... people need to relax.

 

[3DVagabond]

So you are basically saying the haters are doing it because they feel threatened that GS is going to die in a fire due to the $200 premium and poor adoption rate?

Surely, GS *must* be superior since its got an expensive addon hardware module to support it. If its the superior solution then surely there must be lots willing to pay extra for it.

So no need to feel threaten... people need to relax.

AMD's FreeSync has additional hardware as well. It's just that it's on board the card.

I think the problem gorobei was alluding to is that in order for GSync to become a profitable adventure they are going to need to sell fairly significant quantities to offset the cost of the ASICS in the monitors. With FreeSync they are using already commercially available components as it just moves the eDP standard to the desktop. It's already being used in the very high volume portable market as an energy saving feature. As an IHV what are you going to do? Are you going to take a chance on having to buy into new more expensive tech and hope it sells? Or, are you going to incorporate tech into your desktop monitors that you are already using in your portables? Seems like DP1.2a is very low risk.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

It wouldn't be the first time a piece of superior technology was rendered obsolete by a piece of good enough tech that catered to a big market. The writing is on the wall.

You would be crazy to buy a gsync monitor because nvidia will eventually have to support these adaptive sync monitors.

 

[3DVagabond]

It wouldn't be the first time a piece of superior technology was rendered by a piece of good enough tech that catered to a big market. The writing is on the wall.

You would be crazy to buy a gsync monitor because nvidia will eventually have to support these adaptive sync monitors.

Which tech are you calling superior, and why?

 

[gorobei]

this is the long version since i may not have been clear.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36354343&postcount=60

 

[SoulWager]

this is the long version since i may not have been clear.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36354343&postcount=60

Adaptive sync needs a large install base before it makes economic sense for Nvidia to support it on their GPUs. It's a question of comparing profit by people with nvidia gpus buying freesync monitors over g-sync monitors vs the profit gained by selling video cards to people that already own freesync monitors. Similarly, but more near term, when AMD releases adaptive sync compatible drivers, Nvidia may have a business case to support that standard on g-sync displays. This is because there's already a large install base of AMD GPUs.


On BOM cost, work on a g-sync ASIC was likely underway when the feature was first announced last year. Nvidia can afford the OTE, and has a lot of in house experience designing chips. Long term, I see equivalent BOM cost between gsync and freesync, with a ~$20 premium for nvidia's licensing. Similar to SLI vs crossfire.

 

[Abwx]

FAQ published by AMD on FS, guess that it answer a lot of technical questions discussed by there, dont know if it wasnt already posted.

http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/freesync-faq.aspx

 

[DigDog]

this is the long version since i may not have been clear.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36354343&postcount=60

G-Sync doesn't have an H in the name. :biggrin:

What you say there is reasonable but history has provided other examples of expensive, unnecessary solutions which have taken the market by storm (the phonograph being one - both machine and records were incredibly expensive yet they took like fire);

Anyway, it's still a matter of wait and see.

First off, *when* Fs comes to market, it will get tested and only then we'll see if it's what we want (or what the consumers think they want) - drop a frame and you might be everyone's laughingstock.

Also, if Fs is based solely on GPU hardware and DP functionality, it's very possible that Nv will copy it verbatim, call it idk, New-Sync.

NVidia have demonstrated to be very effective marketers and they could easily steal Fs from AMD if it proved to be better (or cheaper).

AMD has proven to be not-so-great at marketing... so you know that could easily happen.

And btw, the costs with manufacturing the chip, just write them off as advertisement - The King Of The Variable Refresh Rate Monitors: NVidia! (something something slogan)! Don't Fall Behind!

 

[SoulWager]

Considering the pcper reviews of the swift, it looks very difficult for freesync to perform better than g-sync. About the only way to provide a better user experience within the scope of a g-sync module is to figure out how to do low persistence at the same time as variable refresh without visible brightness changes. This is a difficult problem, it requires research into human vision, and a calibration table for each panel. I don't think Nvidia has solved this problem yet, but I do think it would be easier to do if you have custom hardware in the monitor.

There are a lot of questions about freesync that probably won't be answered until we see some actual reviews, products ship, or sometime later:

Will it support the high refresh rates and resolutions of g-sync? When?
When will monitors be available in large quantities?
When will drivers be available?
Will those drivers work with the laptops demoed at CES, or other existing eDP driven displays?
How much vram overhead does freesync add?
What is the fallback case at max refresh, and how much judder or latency does it add?
Is there a ULMB equivalent implemented in these displays?
Will these displays be significantly cheaper than equivalent g-sync monitors when they ship?
Will it work in windowed(fullscreen) mode before g-sync does?

There's more, but you get the idea.

 

[Mand]

So you are basically saying the haters are doing it because they feel threatened that GS is going to die in a fire due to the $200 premium and poor adoption rate?

Surely, GS *must* be superior since its got an expensive addon hardware module to support it. If its the superior solution then surely there must be lots willing to pay extra for it.

So no need to feel threaten... people need to relax.

I'm hating on AMD because they lied to us about FreeSync. Repeatedly. For months. That's why I'm not particularly inclined to take this news as "Whee, they announced they're giving us samples! That's great! There's no possible way this could be another lying smokescreen!"

Currently, G-Sync is superior because FreeSync doesn't exist. AMD claims it will be as good or better, and cheaper, and full of rainbows and unicorns. But they haven't shown us anything to make us believe that.

If you want to get into mentality, ask why the more rabid contingent of AMD fans are so desperate to cling to anything positive whatsoever that they can ignore simple facts of the untruths AMD has been peddling for the last eight months, and instead make up this amazing, free, trivially easy implementation of FreeSync that has absolutely no basis in reality, and then go champion it all over the internet. Because their fanboying is surely not going to impact product development or adoption.

Oh, wait. By falsely hyping up FreeSync and lying about G-Sync, that fools people into not buying G-Sync, and not buying the Geforce cards to use it with. Huh, fancy that.

 

[Erenhardt]

Oh, wait. By falsely hyping up FreeSync and lying about G-Sync, that fools people into not buying G-Sync, and not buying the Geforce cards to use it with. Huh, fancy that.

Whoah... Hold on for a minute... the singular form is "person".

 

[96Firebird]

Whoah... Hold on for a minute... the singular form is "person".

Don't worry, I'm sure you weren't the only one fooled!

 

[jackstar7]

Oh, wait. By falsely hyping up FreeSync and lying about G-Sync, that fools people into not buying G-Sync, and not buying the Geforce cards to use it with. Huh, fancy that.

You could not give AMD your money. That should solve the problem from your end.

As for them employing a sketchy strategy to protect their business... well, I'm sure nV has never done anything like that.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Which tech are you calling superior, and why?

I think the feeling from many is that gsync is better because nvidia made it. If adaptive sync is good enough and Intel gets on board with it due to its open nature there is literally nothing nvidia can do but opt to support the standard.

They could choose to attempt to keep gsync alive at great cost to their bottom line in an attempt to lock people in to nvidia GPUs. I think that would be a silly thing to do because display controller manufacturers are going to be building chips that support this standard in massive quantities once Intel gets on board.

 

[Mand]

You could not give AMD your money. That should solve the problem from your end.

As for them employing a sketchy strategy to protect their business... well, I'm sure nV has never done anything like that.

Me buying or not buying their product, personally, is not going to change their approach. For the record, I currently have an AMD card.

And just because others have done it does not make it right. It's wrong to lie and smear your competitor rather than develop your own product. AMD should not get a pass just because others have failed to do the right thing in the past.

I think the feeling from many is that gsync is better because nvidia made it. If adaptive sync is good enough and Intel gets on board with it due to its open nature there is literally nothing nvidia can do but opt to support the standard.

No, G-Sync is better because it exists. Will Adaptive Sync be better? Who knows. What we do know is that it doesn't exist yet, so it can't be better yet. Also, the open standard is not always the one that is adopted: see HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Me buying or not buying their product, personally, is not going to change their approach. For the record, I currently have an AMD card.

And just because others have done it does not make it right. It's wrong to lie and smear your competitor rather than develop your own product. AMD should not get a pass just because others have failed to do the right thing in the past.



No, G-Sync is better because it exists. Will Adaptive Sync be better? Who knows. What we do know is that it doesn't exist yet, so it can't be better yet. Also, the open standard is not always the one that is adopted: see HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray.

Do you think the closed standard will win when every company that makes a GPU on earth (AMD, intel, and ARM manufacturers) can make a driver for adaptive sync because it's open?

Adaptive sync will allow mobile devices to use less power which is something these companies will not ignore. They will all support it.

 

[Silverforce11]

I think the feeling from many is that gsync is better because nvidia made it.

It should be better because they are charging $200 for it.

 

[DigDog]

By falsely hyping up FreeSync and lying about G-Sync, that fools people into not buying G-Sync, and not buying the Geforce cards to use it with. Huh, fancy that.

whats stopping people from buying dem G-s monitors is 1) the cost and 2) there's like, 3 of them. not exactly everywhere.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It should be better because they are charging $200 for it.

You dont know the final price of Freesync yet. It may end up in the same price range. GSync could be done for something like less than 40$ too, if everyone just...worked towards that goal.

 

[jackstar7]

Me buying or not buying their product, personally, is not going to change their approach. For the record, I currently have an AMD card.

And just because others have done it does not make it right. It's wrong to lie and smear your competitor rather than develop your own product. AMD should not get a pass just because others have failed to do the right thing in the past.

Ugh, so you support their tactics even while claiming to hate them.

I'm not saying it is right or giving anyone a pass. I'm saying it is business. To expect honesty is just naive. That's why we have sites that do testing and analysis, to get at data.

 

[Phynaz]

Oh, wait. By falsely hyping up FreeSync and lying about G-Sync, that fools people into not buying G-Sync, and not buying the Geforce cards to use it with. Huh, fancy that.

Ummm...That's Marketing's job. Get them to buy your product instead of someone else's.

 

[Mand]

Ugh, so you support their tactics even while claiming to hate them.

I'm not saying it is right or giving anyone a pass. I'm saying it is business. To expect honesty is just naive. That's why we have sites that do testing and analysis, to get at data.

But they haven't even provided anything for people to test with. I don't expect full honesty, but I do expect not to be outright lied to. They lied about their product, they lied about their competitor's product, and they've chosen not to release any information that would assist in third-party verification. Yes, I do get to criticize them for it.

My AMD card is nearly five years old. AMD of the last year isn't the same company as when I got my card.

I don't "support their tactics" in the slightest. Hence the posts.

 

[blackened23]

Ummm...That's Marketing's job. Get them to buy your product instead of someone else's.

This news about free-sync isn't surprising. From the outset, I thought there was no way this would become a real product available for purchase until 2015, and here we are, I was correct. The news hit initially in January of this year, 2014.

That said, a competing standard is a good thing but I'm not really feeling AMD's marketing a year or a year and a half out from a real product. Kinda sketchy. NV didn't really say anything at all until G-sync was ready, and while you can argue the DIY kit didn't constitute a real product....nonetheless, you don't see NV marketing stuff just to steer customers a year or a year and a half out before a product hits. Shield .... marketed it when it was pretty much ready. G-sync? Same thing. Everything else? Same thing. I find the entire thing amusing, really. My initial thoughts were that FS wouldn't hit until 2015, and that is apparently the case.

Let's face facts. AMD is just doing this to give AMD fans hope for something better to sell the cards. To give AMD fans the idea that they had this working all along. Uh-huh. Yeah okay AMD. The name "free-sync" from the outset was a shot at Nvidia. NV spurred them to create their thing, and the name is a direct shot at NV. A year out. A year out. How funny is that?

Good for them. The obvious question is, is this marketing strategy by AMD working anywhere? Instilling hopes and dreams into their fans years before something hits? Well, market share numbers for AMD and dGPUs aren't pretty at all. They're regressing in market share, not progressing. And I personally find the announce something to instill hopes more than a year out to be pretty ridiculous. But whatever floats AMD's boat man. Their marketing team are full of clowns, but i'm sure they'll do what they feel is best. And this is their way, apparently.

Whatever. Like I said, competing product is good. Should be interesting to see how FS turns out, and more importantly, will they have something comparable to ULMB. Will they have 144hz panels? I look forward to the reviews, the only problem being is that hopefully AMD won't impose restrictions on what can and cannot be test. Sorta like their mobile APU reviews where reviewers are prohibited from talking battery life. What will it be with FS ? Or will reviewers have unfettered access for comparisons to something like the ROG Swift panel?. Whatever though. We'll see next year.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

This news about free-sync isn't surprising. From the outset, I thought there was no way this would become a real product available for purchase until 2015, and here we are, I was correct. The news hit initially in January of this year, 2014.

That said, a competing standard is a good thing but I'm not really feeling AMD's marketing a year or a year and a half out from a real product. Kinda sketchy. NV didn't really say anything at all until G-sync was ready, and while you can argue the DIY kit didn't constitute a real product....nonetheless, you don't see NV marketing stuff just to steer customers a year or a year and a half out before a product hits. Shield .... marketed it when it was pretty much ready. G-sync? Same thing. Everything else? Same thing. I find the entire thing amusing, really. My initial thoughts were that FS wouldn't hit until 2015, and that is apparently the case.

Let's face facts. AMD is just doing this to give AMD fans hope for something better to sell the cards. To give AMD fans the idea that they had this working all along. Uh-huh. Yeah okay AMD. The name "free-sync" from the outset was a shot at Nvidia. NV spurred them to create their thing, and the name is a direct shot at NV. A year out. A year out. How funny is that?

Good for them. The obvious question is, is this marketing strategy by AMD working anywhere? Instilling hopes and dreams into their fans years before something hits? Well, market share numbers for AMD and dGPUs aren't pretty at all. They're regressing in market share, not progressing. And I personally find the announce something to instill hopes more than a year out to be pretty ridiculous. But whatever floats AMD's boat man. Their marketing team are full of clowns, but i'm sure they'll do what they feel is best. And this is their way, apparently.

Whatever. Like I said, competing product is good. Should be interesting to see how FS turns out, and more importantly, will they have something comparable to ULMB. Will they have 144hz panels? I look forward to the reviews, the only problem being is that hopefully AMD won't impose restrictions on what can and cannot be test. Sorta like their mobile APU reviews where reviewers are prohibited from talking battery life. What will it be with FS ? Or will reviewers have unfettered access for comparisons to something like the ROG Swift panel?. Whatever though. We'll see next year.

AMD is saving people from being locked to one hardware vendor with a gsync monitor. That's a good thing not a negative. The monitors are coming, and soon.

Monitors are something I keep around much longer than all my other components. Why would I tie myself to nvidia hardware for 5+ years when in that time the hardware landscape could change drastically.

It is my belief that nvidia will abandon gsync shortly after adaptive sync is released. I myself would not buy a gsync monitor because of this. Others have more disposable income than me, but even if I had the funds I wouldn't spend them in a stupid manner.

Long story short if you love nvidia products go buy yourself a gsync monitor with a mediocre resolution and questionable display quality, just don't be surprised when its obsolete in 1-3 years.