Toyota trucks == Rust Buckets

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: KevinCU
http://www.jdpower.com/corpora...leases/pdf/2009043.pdf

Page 3.

Wow.
Game. Set. Match.

That's only the first 3/4 years though.

Note the Scion (aka: Toyota) is towards the bottom as well.

Huh? Toyota + Lexus are at the top.

His point is that Scion which is a Toyota brand is down at the bottom.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: KevinCU
http://www.jdpower.com/corpora...leases/pdf/2009043.pdf

Page 3.

Wow.
Game. Set. Match.

That's only the first 3/4 years though.

Note the Scion (aka: Toyota) is towards the bottom as well.

Huh? Toyota + Lexus are at the top.

Scion is Toyota's "downmarket" brand, similar to Chevrolet to GM. It was created because Toyota was known for boring soul-less cars. One side effect that helps keep Toyota near the top is the people who would normally buy cars like the Celica and Tercel turn around and get the TC. Thus sticking Scion with the "unreliable" crowd.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: nerp

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: nerp

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: nerp
I can't tell you how many FOrd and GMs in the mid to late 90s I've seen with defective paint and those peeling and expanding circles.

This crap happens to all manufacturers one time or another.

Quit arguing. It's lame.

Paint problems and severe frame rust are vastly different issues. One make the vehicle look bad, the other is a safety concern.

No, they're both flaws in the manufacturing process. That was my point. It happens to everyone. It can happen to a component that is important for safety or not. But it happens to everyone. Saying Toyota is garbage because of this one issue ignores the fact that nearly every manufacturer at one point or another put out cars with components that were defective.

The process control you use on paint and what you use on structural components required to keep you from dying should be drastically different. It's a basic idea from failure modes and effects analysis (a six sigma tool which Toyota is huge on). You focus your energy on the possible failures that have the worst outcome and spend less time on failures that could be considered annoyances. On a car bad paint could be considered a failure but nobody will die from it.

You're exponding on your safety vs. cosmetic argument but I'm suggesting that you're bringing up mere details to a greater issue that no automaker is immune to. Yes, there should be measures to prevent a defect from entering the supply of parts that are critical for safety. Nobody disputes that. What I'm saying is that the possibility of a defect on any type of part exists for engine, structural, cosmetic, interior and exterior parts and I'd wager that every automaker has had a bad batch of parts at some point or another. I recall a lot of VWs for a time had a key engine component put in upside down (something to do with the rings), but not all VWs. You had no real way of knowing you were affected by it until the engine had chewed itself apart after 25,000 miles. THis isn't so much a safety issue as a severe error in the manufacturing. BUt it's an error in manufacturing and so is an improperly treated metal frame, a gas tank that tends to explode upon rear impact and the myriad airbag and electrical system problems that many domestic and foreign automakers have experience.

I agree wholeheartedly with this guy. Car manufactuters make cock ups in the manufacturing process.

At least with the Toyota debacle it is a progressive defect; rust is progressive and does not lead to a catastrophic failure overnight. i.e. the rust starts on one day and the next day the steel is in pieces on the floor. This should hopefully mean that during an annual MOT (I don't know what the equivalent is in the US) this defect would be picked up before it fails.

It could be worse in terms of safety:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/wat...09/04/mini_update.html
Please note the comments made by posters; this is not a one off problem. Watchdog (a BBC consumer affairs programme) also ran a similar programme back in 2002, which is where I remembered this from.

Here's a US link to the 'Mini catching fire' problem:
http://www.northamericanmotori...-engine-bay-fires.html

I would deem that a car catching fire due to a faulty component is a lot worse than a progressive defect such as a corroded structural member. Also note the steering pump failing spontaneously in the first link.

btw Minis are manufactured 5 miles from where I live in Oxford, England.

Back on topic; I hope that Toyota, now that they have recognised that a problem exists, will do right by the owners lumbered with these defective cars. At the end of the day, it would be morally wrong and highly impropable that the owners of these cars would be able to sell their cars to someone else, hence Toyota should foot the bill.

 

[woodie1]

No company I ever worked for would accept parts from an outside vendor until or unless they had passed a Q.C. check. Surely someone dropped the ball and Toyota screwed up big time.

Now what I don't understand is if this is such a big problem how come these trucks still command such a premium over their used counterparts. I looked at some used Tacomas for one of my kids last year and couldn't believe how little they depreciated. Decided on a 2004 F150 instead.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: woodie1
No company I ever worked for would accept parts from an outside vendor until or unless they had passed a Q.C. check. Surely someone dropped the ball and Toyota screwed up big time.

Now what I don't understand is if this is such a big problem how come these trucks still command such a premium over their used counterparts. I looked at some used Tacomas for one of my kids last year and couldn't believe how little they depreciated. Decided on a 2004 F150 instead.

Because Toyota is buying them off for a premium over KBB.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: woodie1
No company I ever worked for would accept parts from an outside vendor until or unless they had passed a Q.C. check. Surely someone dropped the ball and Toyota screwed up big time.

Now what I don't understand is if this is such a big problem how come these trucks still command such a premium over their used counterparts. I looked at some used Tacomas for one of my kids last year and couldn't believe how little they depreciated. Decided on a 2004 F150 instead.

Because Toyota is buying them off for a premium over KBB.

Doesn't compute.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: woodie1
No company I ever worked for would accept parts from an outside vendor until or unless they had passed a Q.C. check. Surely someone dropped the ball and Toyota screwed up big time.

Now what I don't understand is if this is such a big problem how come these trucks still command such a premium over their used counterparts. I looked at some used Tacomas for one of my kids last year and couldn't believe how little they depreciated. Decided on a 2004 F150 instead.

Because Toyota is buying them off for a premium over KBB.

Doesn't compute.

What doesn't compute? If there is a buyer who is willing to pay premium, that raises market value of a car.
Getting rust on your Tacoma is like hitting jackpot.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: boomhower
My Dad had one of the rusted out Tacomas, I believe it was a '99 and he bought new. As they said they bought it back to blue book retail plus 10%. Oddly enough, he bought another new Tacoma.

Are you sure about that?

I got retail + 50%... 😀

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: woodie1
No company I ever worked for would accept parts from an outside vendor until or unless they had passed a Q.C. check. Surely someone dropped the ball and Toyota screwed up big time.

Now what I don't understand is if this is such a big problem how come these trucks still command such a premium over their used counterparts. I looked at some used Tacomas for one of my kids last year and couldn't believe how little they depreciated. Decided on a 2004 F150 instead.

Because Toyota is buying them off for a premium over KBB.

Doesn't compute.

What doesn't compute? If there is a buyer who is willing to pay premium, that raises market value of a car.
Getting rust on your Tacoma is like hitting jackpot.

Prices for Tacomas were high before the whole extended warranty / buyback program.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: boomhower
My Dad had one of the rusted out Tacomas, I believe it was a '99 and he bought new. As they said they bought it back to blue book retail plus 10%. Oddly enough, he bought another new Tacoma.

Are you sure about that?

I got retail + 50%... 😀

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: woodie1
No company I ever worked for would accept parts from an outside vendor until or unless they had passed a Q.C. check. Surely someone dropped the ball and Toyota screwed up big time.

Now what I don't understand is if this is such a big problem how come these trucks still command such a premium over their used counterparts. I looked at some used Tacomas for one of my kids last year and couldn't believe how little they depreciated. Decided on a 2004 F150 instead.

Because Toyota is buying them off for a premium over KBB.

Doesn't compute.

What doesn't compute? If there is a buyer who is willing to pay premium, that raises market value of a car.
Getting rust on your Tacoma is like hitting jackpot.

Prices for Tacomas were high before the whole extended warranty / buyback program.

Correct!

 

[crosshairs]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
It is most certainly not willful ignorance. To suggest than _any_ of the current GM cars will drive for 300,000 miles without more than a $500 repair is, however.

The Toyota's do this no problem.

Further, you're welcome to point out Toyota has supply problems, but that's not the point. The point is how they've handled it in the past, how they're handling this situation, and how they will continue to handle problems like these, and the effect it has on consumer confidence. If Toyota and Honda were on the verge of bankruptcy and only surviving thanks to continued life support from the government, these supply quality control issues would be much greater problems. Toyota's not going anywhere; they're more than solving the problems with current vehicles, so the whole point is moot.

Even the rednecks are figuring out Toyota just plain makes a better truck. See the linked BBC video above.

I spent a hell of a lot more than $500 getting my '88 Accord (meticulous maintenance) to "only" 217,000 miles. In fact, I spent several thousand on repairs to get it there, and even then the floorpan rusted out and I had to replace the transmission at 205,000 miles. In terms of overall reliability, the Ford Explorers my father owned had fewer problems. Significantly fewer actually.

To claim that a Toyota will automatically go 300,000 miles without more than $500 in non-maintenance repairs is to be living in a fantasy world.

The fact is that the overall quality levels of a brand new Toyota, a brand new Ford, and a brand new Chevrolet are not meaningfully different.

ZV

I said more than $500 in any one repair bill.

Our Buick would develop a new problem ever time we didn't put Shell gas in it. Sold that, got an 88 Camry, drove it for 10 years until 2005, no problems.

Friend told me about his aunt's Monte Carlo which she had to dump $25k into within the first year of owning it (brand new off lot).

http://www.thebiglot.com/used-...chevrolet_for_sale.asp
They don't bother building any name recognition. Keeps Consumer Reports from ever being able to give a "reliability" rating.

In short, they're doing it wrong, and it's no surprise they're bankrupt.

So using the wrong brand of gas caused specific problems? huh? and how could your friend's aunt "dump" $25K into the Monte Carlo if she bought it brand new ? I guess no one at the dealership told her that her repairs were covered under warranty so she shelled out more than the value of the car in one year out of her own pocket?, your not making any sense here..

Trolls rarely do...most of them just spew garbage that they heard ...few ever have any real world experience with the product hey hate so much.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Toyota kicked our asses in the truck dept.?

I never knew that. I thought they consistently lost badly to the F150 and the Ranger.

Watch the Tundra ads closely. All the work trucks, that are staged to show that they really built these platforms and crazy contraptions, are Ford and Chevy trucks. Why no T100 or Tacoma or hell even previous generation Tundra's there?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: marincounty
Text

Despite an arctic-inspired name, certain Toyota Tundra full-size pickups....

Haha, play the blame game. It's toyota's responsibility to QC and approve the parts they get. But lets just blame it on big dumb Americans. Maybe they can get the president to appologize on their behalf.

In the comments in the linked article you hear all kinds of crazy comments, such as:

"It's always been well known that foreign vehicles are made from inferior steel than you would find on an American vehicle, If you don't believe me go look at the frame underneath a F series and you will see just how thick it is and it comes properly rust coated from the factory. My family has two plow trucks ( 96 Bronco, 97 F350) and both have been plowing since new and look great underneath with no serious corrosion, You guys should really just avoid buying foriegn trucks from now on and buy a truck that won't ever experience frame rust."

. 28, 2009 5:12pm EDT | from steves

The frames are made in America by Americans.

Rednecks have been bad-mouthing japanese cars forever. This is just another opportunity for them due to some widely publicized problems with Toyota trucks. I realize people are pissed that Toyota kicked Detroit's ass.

Does anyone have any numbers of how many trucks this is affecting? The article I quoted mentions more than two dozen trucks. Is this a real problem or is this just a few trucks?

And your comment about the president is uncalled for and has nothing to do with the subject.

The quality that Dana puts into the Toyota parts is the quality that Toyota wants them to put in it. Dana just makes the parts, Toyota tells them what to use and how much to use.
Dana makes parts for GM, Ford, and others, but they don't have the same problem.

As far as numbers it affects, it's a lot. I remember when I 1st heard about the Tacoma's being bought back, someone posted pics of hundreds sitting in fields waiting to be scrapped. And that was just in one city. Every vehicle that was made in that time frame could show the signs. It's just that those that were in harsher conditions like areas that used salt to ice roads were in a lot worse condition than say a truck that's been in central Texas or Arizona.

Lastly my comment was put in because he like to apologize and blame everything on dumb lazy Americans, much like how the import lovers like to say Americans can't make shit because they're dumb and lazy.

 

[StageLeft]

Without being close, surface rust can look worse than it is. That said, I was impressed with how much a co-worker got for their tacoma last year. Something like $12k from Toyota (bluebooked around $8500 tops) because of the rust issue. I agree with the idea above that if it turns out other of their trucks have severe rust problems it will be a major hit on Toyota as a truck brand.

Hmm, actually the pics in that pickuptrucks.com link show that this rust is truly severe.

It would be funny if they blame it on an American supplier. I don't care who supplies parts to what I buy. I look to the seller to make good on the product. That is what I pay them for.

 

[JS80]

lol tundras are made in the US

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: JS80
lol tundras are made in the US

Yes, but no domestic brand is having this issue. It's a Toyota problem, not a US auto industry issue.