Toyota runs GM powered Tundra in Baja 500

[theeedude]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...ed-tundra-in-baja-500/

Power for the PreRunner comes from none other than GM's LS2 small-block. TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

For the record, Toyota does not sponsor team TForce or its hopped-up PreRunner, but you can imagine that choosing a GM engine over one by Toyota because of reliability isn't exactly what the folks in Aichi, Japan like hearing.

I guess Toyota's engines just don't cut it. 🙂

 

[overst33r]

Why wouldn't the Tundra 5.7 V8 suffice? I heard there were some camshaft issues early on, but other than that, I think it'd be cheaper to buy a V8 tundra than swap in an LSx...

 

[mwmorph]

Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: mariok2006
Why wouldn't the Tundra 5.7 V8 suffice? I heard there were some camshaft issues early on, but other than that, I think it'd be cheaper to buy a V8 tundra than swap in an LSx...

Given that 0% of the truck is stock...
http://store.summitracing.com/...D19156261&autoview=sku

I can't find the price of the Toyota engine.

 

[woodie1]

Forgive the off topic but - don't all NASCAR cars run the same engine? I know, last time I read a story on them, they were all pushrod V8s.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: woodie1
Forgive the off topic but - don't all NASCAR cars run the same engine? I know, last time I read a story on them, they were all pushrod V8s.

If by the same engine, you mean pushrod V8s. Yes. But by the same definition the Civic, Cobalt, Focus, and Elise all have the same engine. 🙂

the engines in NASCAR are loosely based on (former) production engines from GM, Dodge, and Ford, or in the case of Toyota, brand spanking new designs to fit the formula, however none of the manufacturers I would say resemble anything that's been put in a street car.

 

[ElFenix]

toyota isn't running this truck

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: woodie1
Forgive the off topic but - don't all NASCAR cars run the same engine? I know, last time I read a story on them, they were all pushrod V8s.

If by the same engine, you mean pushrod V8s. Yes. But by the same definition the Civic, Cobalt, Focus, and Elise all have the same engine. 🙂

the engines in NASCAR are loosely based on (former) production engines from GM, Dodge, and Ford, or in the case of Toyota, brand spanking new designs to fit the formula, however none of the manufacturers I would say resemble anything that's been put in a street car.

Nope, that's not what I meant.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

 

[996GT2]

The truck isn't even sponsored by Toyota...so the team is free to do whatever they want. It's just like people putting small-blocks in RX-7s. Does Mazda condone it? No...but people do it anyway.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
The truck isn't even sponsored by Toyota...so the team is free to do whatever they want. It's just like people putting small-blocks in RX-7s. Does Mazda condone it? No...but people do it anyway.

Why would they put Toyota stickers and style it like a Toyota if they weren't sponsored by Toyota?

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: 996GT2
The truck isn't even sponsored by Toyota...so the team is free to do whatever they want. It's just like people putting small-blocks in RX-7s. Does Mazda condone it? No...but people do it anyway.

Why would they put Toyota stickers and style it like a Toyota if they weren't sponsored by Toyota?

Straight from the article:

For the record, Toyota does not sponsor team TForce or its hopped-up PreRunner

And by your line of reasoning, every Civic ricer out there who puts a gigantic Honda sticker on their windshield is automatically sponsored by Honda Motorsport...

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

You're full of sh!t if you think SBC's don't have long-term reliability.

 

[Mermaidman]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: woodie1
Forgive the off topic but - don't all NASCAR cars run the same engine? I know, last time I read a story on them, they were all pushrod V8s.

If by the same engine, you mean pushrod V8s. Yes. But by the same definition the Civic, Cobalt, Focus, and Elise all have the same engine. 🙂

the engines in NASCAR are loosely based on (former) production engines from GM, Dodge, and Ford, or in the case of Toyota, brand spanking new designs to fit the formula, however none of the manufacturers I would say resemble anything that's been put in a street car.

Nope, that's not what I meant.

In that case, the answer is 'no.' NASCAR teams don't use the same motor. Some of the larger teams (e.g. Roush, Hendrick) will sell or loan motors to other teams. In some instances, teams collaborate on engine programs.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

You're full of sh!t if you think SBC's don't have long-term reliability.

they chose the LS2 because they are reliable and easy to maintain for the race, that does not mean that:

1) the toyota V8 is unreliable. it may be just that the LS2 is easier to service.
2) the LS2 is unreliable in the long run. something reliable for a race can also be reliable in the long run.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

You're full of sh!t if you think SBC's don't have long-term reliability.

Fanboyish, anyone?

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

You're full of sh!t if you think SBC's don't have long-term reliability.

Fanboyish, anyone?

Um no, it's generally accepted by most people, fanboy or not. Anti-domestic are we?

 

[BlackTigers]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

You're full of sh!t if you think SBC's don't have long-term reliability.

Fanboyish, anyone?

Um no, it's generally excepted by most people, fanboy or not. Anti-domestic are we?

So the engine being reliable is an exception?

K.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: BlackTigers91

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

You're full of sh!t if you think SBC's don't have long-term reliability.

Fanboyish, anyone?

Um no, it's generally excepted by most people, fanboy or not. Anti-domestic are we?

So the engine being reliable is an exception?

K.

Ha, nice one BlackTigers91.

And Ktulu, I don't think it's so much me being anti domestic as you being decidedly anti-foreign, since you've posted in just about every thread about foreign cars for nothing other than to talk about how bad they are or how much better a domestic counterpart is.

Case in point: you practically worshipped the Cadillac CTS in the Hyundai Genesis thread, even though the 2 cars aren't even really competitors and the CTS is far from being best even in its own class. So how's the pay from GM lately, eh?

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Mermaidman

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: woodie1
Forgive the off topic but - don't all NASCAR cars run the same engine? I know, last time I read a story on them, they were all pushrod V8s.

If by the same engine, you mean pushrod V8s. Yes. But by the same definition the Civic, Cobalt, Focus, and Elise all have the same engine. 🙂

the engines in NASCAR are loosely based on (former) production engines from GM, Dodge, and Ford, or in the case of Toyota, brand spanking new designs to fit the formula, however none of the manufacturers I would say resemble anything that's been put in a street car.

Nope, that's not what I meant.

In that case, the answer is 'no.' NASCAR teams don't use the same motor. Some of the larger teams (e.g. Roush, Hendrick) will sell or loan motors to other teams. In some instances, teams collaborate on engine programs.

You guys are right. Did some searching and discovered I mixed up another Series with NASCAR. I guess now that all the cars in NASCAR look alike I somehow equated that to them having the same basic drive train.
At least I didn't start a war.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: BlackTigers91

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

You're full of sh!t if you think SBC's don't have long-term reliability.

Fanboyish, anyone?

Um no, it's generally excepted by most people, fanboy or not. Anti-domestic are we?

So the engine being reliable is an exception?

K.

Ha, nice one BlackTigers91.

And Ktulu, I don't think it's so much me being anti domestic as you being decidedly anti-foreign, since you've posted in just about every thread about foreign cars for nothing other than to talk about how bad they are or how much better a domestic counterpart is.

Case in point: you practically worshipped the Cadillac CTS in the Hyundai Genesis thread, even though the 2 cars aren't even really competitors and the CTS is far from being best even in its own class. So how's the pay from GM lately, eh?

1) So I spelled accepted wrong, big deal, it's Friday afternoon, I was playing football during lunch so I pretty worn out.
2) I'm not anti-foreign, I own a civic and have no problems buying anything foreign if it's suits my needs. If a domestic sucks, I'll point it out as well. BTW ,would '>' instead of '>>>>>>>>' not be considered worshiping?
3)Although the CTS does technically compete against the likes of the IS, G35, 3 series, etc. it's proportions have it more suited to competed with larger luxury cars like the 5 series. In fact GM has been planning in bringing in a smaller car to move up the CTS in class. In which case the CTS competes against the Genesis just fine.

Besides, if you think it's annoying how much I defend domestics, it's equally annoying how much anti-domestic bias there is on this forum.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: BlackTigers91

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

You're full of sh!t if you think SBC's don't have long-term reliability.

Fanboyish, anyone?

Um no, it's generally excepted by most people, fanboy or not. Anti-domestic are we?

So the engine being reliable is an exception?

K.

Ha, nice one BlackTigers91.

And Ktulu, I don't think it's so much me being anti domestic as you being decidedly anti-foreign, since you've posted in just about every thread about foreign cars for nothing other than to talk about how bad they are or how much better a domestic counterpart is.

Case in point: you practically worshipped the Cadillac CTS in the Hyundai Genesis thread, even though the 2 cars aren't even really competitors and the CTS is far from being best even in its own class. So how's the pay from GM lately, eh?

1) So I spelled accepted wrong, big deal, it's Friday afternoon, I was playing football during lunch so I pretty worn out.
2) I'm not anti-foreign, I own a civic and have no problems buying anything foreign if it's suits my needs. If a domestic sucks, I'll point it out as well. BTW ,would '>' instead of '>>>>>>>>' not be considered worshiping?
3)Although the CTS does technically compete against the likes of the IS, G35, 3 series, etc. it's proportions have it more suited to competed with larger luxury cars like the 5 series. In fact GM has been planning in bringing in a smaller car to move up the CTS in class. In which case the CTS competes against the Genesis just fine.

Besides, if you think it's annoying how much I defend domestics, it's equally annoying how much anti-domestic bias there is on this forum.

... Full of shit? I guess it really shows how much you know about engine technology. 😕

Pushrods are excellent but OHC is more useful in race applications where higher sustained RPMs are going to be needed for long terms.

Decreased valve train inertia is useful when going for higher rpms which is why motorcycle motors are exclusively OHC. It would be optimal to put pushrods in those applications for the weight and size advantages but it's not practical. Similarily, here, when you're going to be running in their upper rev range over hostile, jostling terrain, the pushrods themselves risk deformation and damage while running so they will probably be replaced at least once this season while OHC will last longer under higher G forces from off road racing and high RPM running.

I've never bashed the LSx engines, they're my favorite motors, they run well, make excellent power for their small size and weight and due to the aforementioned size, can fit in almost anything.

Try to allay your fanboyism next time when making dubious attacks and claims.

 

[heymrdj]

Originally posted by: Ktulu
Besides, if you think it's annoying how much I defend domestics, it's equally annoying how much anti-domestic bias there is on this forum.

AMEN!!

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: BlackTigers91

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: 996GT2

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph
Lower maintenance with a chevy small block. What they need is the simplest engine so repairs are quick and easy. Noo need for long term reliability, just short term, fuel economy and easy repairs and LS2s fit that mold.

TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that's much cheaper than facing fuel.

Sounds this crew member disagrees.

...?

I probably should rephrase it, no need for long term reliability, just short term reliability with simple maintenance. I didn't disagree, I meant that for racing, the LS2 will probably be more reliable.

You're full of sh!t if you think SBC's don't have long-term reliability.

Fanboyish, anyone?

Um no, it's generally excepted by most people, fanboy or not. Anti-domestic are we?

So the engine being reliable is an exception?

K.

Ha, nice one BlackTigers91.

And Ktulu, I don't think it's so much me being anti domestic as you being decidedly anti-foreign, since you've posted in just about every thread about foreign cars for nothing other than to talk about how bad they are or how much better a domestic counterpart is.

Case in point: you practically worshipped the Cadillac CTS in the Hyundai Genesis thread, even though the 2 cars aren't even really competitors and the CTS is far from being best even in its own class. So how's the pay from GM lately, eh?

1) So I spelled accepted wrong, big deal, it's Friday afternoon, I was playing football during lunch so I pretty worn out.
2) I'm not anti-foreign, I own a civic and have no problems buying anything foreign if it's suits my needs. If a domestic sucks, I'll point it out as well. BTW ,would '>' instead of '>>>>>>>>' not be considered worshiping?
3)Although the CTS does technically compete against the likes of the IS, G35, 3 series, etc. it's proportions have it more suited to competed with larger luxury cars like the 5 series. In fact GM has been planning in bringing in a smaller car to move up the CTS in class. In which case the CTS competes against the Genesis just fine.

Besides, if you think it's annoying how much I defend domestics, it's equally annoying how much anti-domestic bias there is on this forum.

... Full of shit? I guess it really shows how much you know about engine technology. 😕

Pushrods are excellent but OHC is more useful in race applications where higher sustained RPMs are going to be needed for long terms.

Decreased valve train inertia is useful when going for higher rpms which is why motorcycle motors are exclusively OHC. It would be optimal to put pushrods in those applications for the weight and size advantages but it's not practical. Similarily, here, when you're going to be running in their upper rev range over hostile, jostling terrain, the pushrods themselves risk deformation and damage while running so they will probably be replaced at least once this season while OHC will last longer under higher G forces from off road racing and high RPM running.

I've never bashed the LSx engines, they're my favorite motors, they run well, make excellent power for their small size and weight and due to the aforementioned size, can fit in almost anything.

Try to allay your fanboyism next time when making dubious attacks and claims.

All these quoted quotes look pretty cool so i'll just quote it again.