Toyota reliability continues downward spiral

[ultimatebob]

I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

Subaru has been in the top rankings for 3 to 5 years now.... And even before that, Subarus have been tough over built cars from the very beginnings of Subaru history.

It's not even remotely surprising. 😛

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

Also, Toyota bought out the stake GM had in suburu.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

Also, Toyota bought out the stake GM had in suburu.

Meaning CR blindly rates Subaru now too?

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

Also, Toyota bought out the stake GM had in suburu.

Meaning CR blindly rates Subaru now too?

Meaning you can give Toyota as much crap as you want but last year was statistically an outlier, a discrepancy according to historical trends. If you do the math, it was a fluke. The V8 camshafts were traced back to the original material defect from the supplier which is out of Toyota's control, but if it really makes you feel better then, "OMG TOYOTA IS GOING TO CRASH AND BURN!!111!!1!!11"

And Suburu has been taking cues and design from Parent Toyota, as seen by the external design direction of the new models.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

Also, Toyota bought out the stake GM had in suburu.

Meaning CR blindly rates Subaru now too?

Meaning you can give Toyota as much crap as you want but last year was statistically an outlier, a discrepancy according to historical trends. If you do the math, it was a fluke. The V8 camshafts were traced back to the original material defect from the supplier which is out of Toyota's control, but if it really makes you feel better then, "OMG TOYOTA IS GOING TO CRASH AND BURN!!111!!1!!11"

And Suburu has been taking cues and design from Parent Toyota, as seen by the external design direction of the new models.

Sounds to me like a bunch of excuses.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

Also, Toyota bought out the stake GM had in suburu.

Meaning CR blindly rates Subaru now too?

Meaning you can give Toyota as much crap as you want but last year was statistically an outlier, a discrepancy according to historical trends. If you do the math, it was a fluke. The V8 camshafts were traced back to the original material defect from the supplier which is out of Toyota's control, but if it really makes you feel better then, "OMG TOYOTA IS GOING TO CRASH AND BURN!!111!!1!!11"

And Suburu has been taking cues and design from Parent Toyota, as seen by the external design direction of the new models.

Sounds to me like a bunch of excuses.

It's called logic and statistics. I guess when you invest in stocks, you just pick a random symbol and buy a random number of shares? Trends dictate future actions.

So far you have contributed no valid arguments as to why you think Toyota is going down the crapper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

Statistics is a mathematical science pertaining to the collection, analysis, interpretation or explanation, and presentation of data. It is applicable to a wide variety of academic disciplines, from the physical and social sciences to the humanities. Statistics are also used for making informed decisions.

But hey, spouting random FUD works too I guess.

It's funny you get no me for making excuses but you don't have any information to say or even a valid counterpoint. Sounds like you're out of arguments and facts.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

Also, Toyota bought out the stake GM had in suburu.

Meaning CR blindly rates Subaru now too?

Meaning you can give Toyota as much crap as you want but last year was statistically an outlier, a discrepancy according to historical trends. If you do the math, it was a fluke. The V8 camshafts were traced back to the original material defect from the supplier which is out of Toyota's control, but if it really makes you feel better then, "OMG TOYOTA IS GOING TO CRASH AND BURN!!111!!1!!11"

And Suburu has been taking cues and design from Parent Toyota, as seen by the external design direction of the new models.

Sounds to me like a bunch of excuses.

It's called logic and statistics. I guess when you invest in stocks, you just pick a random symbol and buy a random number of shares? Trends dictate future actions.

So far you have contributed no valid arguments as to why you think Toyota is going down the crapper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

Statistics is a mathematical science pertaining to the collection, analysis, interpretation or explanation, and presentation of data. It is applicable to a wide variety of academic disciplines, from the physical and social sciences to the humanities. Statistics are also used for making informed decisions.

But hey, spouting random FUD works too I guess.

It's funny you get no me for making excuses but you don't have any information to say or even a valid counterpoint. Sounds like you're out of arguments and facts.

What facts have you stated other than what your own opinion. I'd like to know what numbers you're basing your "statistics" on. I hope they're not CR numbers because even they've admitted that their numbers are misrepresented.

You do realize there's been a steady increase in the amount of recalls Toyota puts out. It's not some simple fluke. They're growing pains. Toyota is simply too large now and they're showing it. Nobody expects them to "CRASH AND BURN". But they are gonna have issues like every other car company of its size.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

Also, Toyota bought out the stake GM had in suburu.

Meaning CR blindly rates Subaru now too?

Meaning you can give Toyota as much crap as you want but last year was statistically an outlier, a discrepancy according to historical trends. If you do the math, it was a fluke. The V8 camshafts were traced back to the original material defect from the supplier which is out of Toyota's control, but if it really makes you feel better then, "OMG TOYOTA IS GOING TO CRASH AND BURN!!111!!1!!11"

And Suburu has been taking cues and design from Parent Toyota, as seen by the external design direction of the new models.

Sounds to me like a bunch of excuses.

It's called logic and statistics. I guess when you invest in stocks, you just pick a random symbol and buy a random number of shares? Trends dictate future actions.

So far you have contributed no valid arguments as to why you think Toyota is going down the crapper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics

Statistics is a mathematical science pertaining to the collection, analysis, interpretation or explanation, and presentation of data. It is applicable to a wide variety of academic disciplines, from the physical and social sciences to the humanities. Statistics are also used for making informed decisions.

But hey, spouting random FUD works too I guess.

It's funny you get no me for making excuses but you don't have any information to say or even a valid counterpoint. Sounds like you're out of arguments and facts.

What facts have you stated other than what your own opinion. I'd like to know what numbers you're basing your "statistics" on. I hope they're not CR numbers because even they've admitted that their numbers are misrepresented.

JDpower VDS
http://www.autospectator.com/c...-associates-vehicle-de

Lexus Leads Nameplate Rankings for 13 Years in a Row

http://www.consumeraffairs.com.../05/toyota_tundra.html

Toyota Motor Corp. reports 20 engine failures in the truck

Toyota engineers have determined that a flaw in the casting of a still-undetermined number of Tundra camshafts which were manufactured for Toyota's Alabama engine plant by an outside supplier caused the engine failures.

http://www.thecarconnection.co..._2006.S173.A10341.html

The problem, Toyota says, involved only a half-percent of Camrys built thus far for the 2007 model year.

So now that 20 tundras snapped cams because an outside supplier cast them wrong and 0.5% of early production Camrys have problems, statistically Toyota is still way up there.

As for recalls, those are BS ways to count reliability. Remember Ford Pinto Memo? Recalls are only issued if it is better financially for the company. A company not putting out recalls does not mean it's better reliability wise, just that it's not officially recognizing and willing to fix the problems.

I'd rather go in for a recall than for a real issue. It's a customer service, not a condemenation.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

You want facts?
JDpower VDS
http://www.autospectator.com/c...-associates-vehicle-de

Lexus Leads Nameplate Rankings for 13 Years in a Row

http://www.consumeraffairs.com.../05/toyota_tundra.html

Toyota Motor Corp. reports 20 engine failures in the truck

Toyota engineers have determined that a flaw in the casting of a still-undetermined number of Tundra camshafts which were manufactured for Toyota's Alabama engine plant by an outside supplier caused the engine failures.

http://www.thecarconnection.co..._2006.S173.A10341.html

The problem, Toyota says, involved only a half-percent of Camrys built thus far for the 2007 model year.

Hmm, so now that 20 tundras snapped cams because an outside supplier cast them wrong and 0.5% of early production Camrys have problems, even though statistically Toyota is stil way up there, It's crashing and burning and everyone should make a mad dash fro any other brand?

But I'd like to say again, it's always been me putting up cold facts. Your turn, support your argument, why dont you put up some real facts about why Toyota is crashing and burning quality wise when Lexus is #1 for 13 years, Toyota is still in the top 3 manufacturers in CR's report and the top 15th percentile in JDpower's report and the number of cars affected by the problems CR is citing is almost negligible?

Pick your recall.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Pick your recall.

Seems most of those only affected a few hundred cars, which doesn't really count. That's just manufacturing variances or one lazy installer in one factory.

Any way to sort the >10,000 unit recalls, so that we can actually look for systematic problems?

 

[PingSpike]

You really can't just say "the outside supplier screwed up" when you shit breaks. I mean...how does that change anything? If I owned a sandwich company I couldn't just stick some rotten lettuce on there and say "the farmer screwed up, he sent me rotten lettuce" and expect that to make it all better.

Toyota makes good stuff, but its pretty overrated as well. And with that overratedness seemed to come overpricedness. I like toyota cars, but not much more then most other makes. And since their dealerships are staffed by assholes and their used cars cost to much I have a hard time choosing them personally.

 

[desy]

"Toyota makes good stuff, but its pretty overrated as well. And with that overratedness seemed to come overpricedness. I like toyota cars, but not much more then most other makes. And since their dealerships are staffed by assholes and their used cars cost to much I have a hard time choosing them personally"

Sums it up for me, boring looking too.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
You really can't just say "the outside supplier screwed up" when you shit breaks. I mean...how does that change anything? If I owned a sandwich company I couldn't just stick some rotten lettuce on there and say "the farmer screwed up, he sent me rotten lettuce" and expect that to make it all better.

Toyota makes good stuff, but its pretty overrated as well. And with that overratedness seemed to come overpricedness. I like toyota cars, but not much more then most other makes. And since their dealerships are staffed by assholes and their used cars cost to much I have a hard time choosing them personally.

You can't. Every single part they use is from a supplier for the most part. It's toyota's responsibility to maintain quality checks.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

the engines, transmissions, and chassis for the Camry and Tacoma are built with pride in the U.S.A. :roll:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...acturing_North_America

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Toyota wanted to be a Ford/GM and now they are, completely huge with too many models and packages, doing nothing well and everything average.

Yes, the pendulum is swinging in the other direction. In days of old Mr. Taguchi would have performed Seppuku. Lucky for him it's out of voque. Western ways have been adopted, no need for drastic measures.

 

[zig3695]

Originally posted by: Sluggo

Originally posted by: redly1
All the Ford and GM owners that broke Ford and GM stuff are now breaking Toyota stuff...that's all there is to it.

Used to be that Toyota drivers were mamby pamby tree hugger types. Now that they are mainstream, average Joe is driving his camry as hard as any caprice or Taurus.

You mean the people who drop to "D" from "R" while still going backwards at about 5MPH, or the people who change their oil, when the red light on the dash tells them to do so?

My father is guilty of both of the above.

red oil lights basically mean youre FUCKED but with my 99 ford ranger 4x4 i can be going any speed in reverse and drop into drive without any hangups. thats how i light up the rears when i really want to. when you hit it into drive it just keeps rolling backward until you give it enough gas to get going. its completely different on chevy trucks, but maybe the newer ones allow it.

 

[zig3695]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

no f'n kidding.....

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: zig3695

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

no f'n kidding.....

I'd wager that neither of you have ever even owned a Subaru.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: zig3695

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

no f'n kidding.....

I'd wager that neither of you have ever even owned a Subaru.

It just shows the power of marketing and how perception is reality.

 

[Pliablemoose]

He he, I dogged the shit out of Consumer Reports for giving a good rating to Toyotas & Hondas, particularly new models with no track record for the last year or so, emails & in their incredibly miserable to use forums.

Dumb asses really need to get their heads out of their asses as far as car reviews & their reliability rankings.

now if they'd just take an honest look at Hondas instead of giving them the rubber stamp of approval with a knee jerk orgasm every time they review one.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: zig3695

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

no f'n kidding.....

I'd wager that neither of you have ever even owned a Subaru.

It just shows the power of marketing and how perception is reality.

But this is just it. I've never heard of Subaru being called unreliable. In fact it has always been the polar opposite. :shrug:

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: zig3695

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'm just amazed that the Subaru is now in the top five in reliability. How did THAT happen?

no f'n kidding.....

I'd wager that neither of you have ever even owned a Subaru.

It just shows the power of marketing and how perception is reality.

But this is just it. I've never heard of Subaru being called unreliable. In fact it has always been the polar opposite. :shrug:

Older Subarus during the time of the 'Justy' were crap.

 

[Harabec]

Originally posted by: zoiks
Older Subarus during the time of the 'Justy' were crap.

Eh?
The old DL's are perhaps some of the most reliable pieces of machinery on the planet.

That's the way it is in Israel, anyway. Going strong for 20-30+ years, hundreds of thousands of KM's, zero maintenance in desert conditions. The Bedouins like them a lot, in legal or stolen form...