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Toyota: recalls won't totally fix gas pedal issues

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Take a look at what Toyota said after they duplicated the issue:

After revealing that Toyota's consultants had been able, late Monday night, to replicate Gilbert's results, Lentz expressed skepticism that "crossing wires" reflected a real-world issue.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/23/autos/Toyota_recall_hearing/

They need to stop denying it, say 'we're researching all possibilities' and really look in to it. If it does turn out to be an electronics issue after they've vehemently denied it they'll lose even more trust than they have.
 
they can look into it, but it is indeed important to consider real world scenarios. you could cause major driveability problems in any car with little effort; with a good amount of effort, you could probably find something that wouldn't set a DTC.

if there's not a reason for these two wires to ever come into accidental contact, i wouldn't spend much time pursuing it right now, either. when a car company issues a recall or TSB for something like this, they're generally going to know the exact cause of the problem- if multiple cars are having shorts as a result of improper routing, chafed wiring, or whatever, they're going to find out where and why. there's a difference between looking for A problem and THE problem.
 
I must say I was a little bit unsettled on my way home from work today when the toyota behind me on the highway suddenly surged forward. Apparently was just the driver deciding he wanted to go faster so he hit the gas and moved to the left lane - not like it helped him any, all 3 lanes were pretty well packed so he had to hit the brakes.

Normally I wouldn't think much of it, but with all this nonsense going on I almost don't trust the general toyota traffic out there.
 
Y'all listen to brblx now, he knows what he's talking about.

Fleet mechanics see a far wider set of problems than most private garages or dealerships. A large airport fleet sends out 4k-5k cars, putting on nearly a million miles every three or four days. People find a way to break everything.

I'm kinda bummed they threw out all those good toyota floormats. Even the new ones!!
 
Take a look at what Toyota said after they duplicated the issue:



http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/23/autos/Toyota_recall_hearing/

They need to stop denying it, say 'we're researching all possibilities' and really look in to it. If it does turn out to be an electronics issue after they've vehemently denied it they'll lose even more trust than they have.

"Exponent, which conducted the tests for Toyota, was able to replicate the same phenomenon described by Gilbert in a non-Toyota vehicle."
 
You can make anything fail if you fool around with it long enough, but how realistic is the failure? How likely is the failure in the real world?

Is it about as likely as that extra plumbing 60 minutes did on an Audi?
 
You can make anything fail if you fool around with it long enough, but how realistic is the failure? How likely is the failure in the real world?

Is it about as likely as that extra plumbing 60 minutes did on an Audi?

didn't they have to make welds to the transmission in the Audi in order to "simulate" it for their journalistic integrity?

Either way, my wife and I are doomed. I drive a Toyota and she drives an Audi... I might just stick with walking from this point forward.
 
🙄 Sorry, but having a car with an acclerator that doesn't respond to what the driver is doing (or brakes in the case of the Prius) is not acceptable. Even for the best driver having the car's controls react in an unpredictible way is dangerous. It can mean the difference between stopping before an intersection or ending up in the middle of it.

Yeah, I said those things are acceptable. Those are my exact words.

Not sure how the Prius system works. But for a conventional car, every driver should and needs to know how to get a car into control stop if the engine decide to WOT, power steering stop working, or power brake stop working.
 
It would more likely be RF interference with the unshielded wires that are running in and out of the ECU but I still don't believe it.

EMI from a cell tower should be negligible. There's signals going all through the air. What about Wifi, radio, etc etc? Come on. If you're designing electronics like this which doesn't need as tight specifications as say semiconductor grade, and isn't as sensitive, how could your component be susceptible to short circuiting from cell tower signals? That's pretty pathetic. Shielded or unshielded, cell towers shouldn't be messing up your ECU.
 
EMI from a cell tower should be negligible. There's signals going all through the air. What about Wifi, radio, etc etc? Come on. If you're designing electronics like this which doesn't need as tight specifications as say semiconductor grade, and isn't as sensitive, how could your component be susceptible to short circuiting from cell tower signals? That's pretty pathetic. Shielded or unshielded, cell towers shouldn't be messing up your ECU.

Solar radiation can and does cause bit errors. Of course the ECU should go into a failsafe mode of something like that happens.
 
This would have been less of an issue if people drove manuals in this country: putting the car in neutral is second nature if you drive a manual!
 
Yeah, I said those things are acceptable. Those are my exact words.

Not sure how the Prius system works. But for a conventional car, every driver should and needs to know how to get a car into control stop if the engine decide to WOT, power steering stop working, or power brake stop working.

No, you claimed that we'd be better off educating the driver and my point was even with a well educated driver having a car with controls that aren't predictable and reliable is a severe problem.

As for the Prius, there's a software issue where the brakes lose quite a bit of their stopping power for a period of time and it appeared to be aggravated by rougher road surfaces. It wasn't an incredibly long period of time but could easily make the difference between stopping with a decent amount of space or hitting the car in front of you at a stop light. It had to do with the transition between the brakes that recharge the batteries and the traditional brakes that are used during heavy braking.
 
This shit is about to get very serious

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...t-rescue-jailed-minnesota-man/article1480692/


'Toyota defence' might rescue jailed Minnesota man

By Steve Karnowski
The Associated Press
'I know 100 per cent in my heart that I took my foot off the gas and that I was stepping on the brakes as hard as possible'

Ever since his 1996 Toyota Camry shot up an interstate ramp, plowing into the back of an Oldsmobile in a horrific crash that killed three people, Koua Fong Lee insisted he had done everything he could to stop the car.
A jury didn't believe him, and a judge sentenced him to eight years in prison. But now, new revelations of safety problems with Toyotas have Mr. Lee pressing to get his case reopened and his freedom restored. Relatives of the victims - who condemned Lee at his sentencing three years ago - now believe he is innocent and are planning to sue Toyota. The prosecutor who sent Mr. Lee to prison said he thinks the case merits another look.
"I know 100 per cent in my heart that I took my foot off the gas and that I was stepping on the brakes as hard as possible," Mr. Lee said in an interview Wednesday at the state prison in Lino Lakes. "When the brakes were looked at and we were told that nothing was wrong with the brakes, I was shocked."
Mr. Lee's accident is among a growing number of cases, some long resolved, that are getting new attention since Toyota admitted its problems with sudden acceleration were more extensive than originally believed. Numerous lawsuits involving Toyota accidents have been filed over the recent revelations, and attorneys expect the numbers will climb.
In testimony before Congress, company executive renewed their apologies for underestimating the safety problems but also acknowledged that they still may not have identified all the causes for the sudden acceleration.
The uncertainty could wind up helping Lee and others. Attorneys for both the 32-year-old St. Paul man as well as the victims' families say they're encouraged by the evidence that the problems went beyond models that originally were recalled.
If Mr. Lee's car was defective, "We don't want an innocent man sitting in prison," said Phil Carruthers, who prosecuted the case for Ramsey County.
A Toyota spokesman declined to comment on Mr. Lee's case.
Mr. Lee, a recent Hmong immigrant with only about a year of driving experience, was driving his pregnant wife, 4-year-old daughter, father and brother home from church the afternoon of June 10, 2006, when their Camry zoomed up an Interstate 94 exit ramp in St. Paul. Police said it was travelling between 70 and 90 mph when it rear-ended an Oldsmobile stopped at a red light.
Javis Trice Adams, 33, and his 10-year-old son, Javis Adams Jr., died at the scene. Mr. Adams' 6-year-old niece, Devyn Bolton, was paralyzed from the neck down, and died shortly after Mr. Lee was convicted.
At his 2007 trial, Mr. Lee testified he was certain he tried to brake. But a city mechanic testified the brakes worked fine, and Mr. Carruthers, the prosecutor, argued Mr. Lee must have hit the gas by mistake. Lee's attorney at trial, Tracy Eichorn-Hicks, seemed to concede as much, arguing Lee's actions fell short of gross negligence.
In the end, a jury convicted Mr. Lee on two counts of criminal vehicular homicide. At sentencing, Ramsey County District Judge Joanne Smith gave Mr. Lee the maximum after emotional testimony that included Devyn Bolton's mother, Bridget Trice, saying to Mr. Lee: "I hope you understand what you've done to my family, Mr. Lee. You have ruined it."
Mr. Lee's Camry wasn't among those subject to Toyota's recent safety recalls, but Toyota did recall some 1996 Camrys for defective cruise controls that could cause sudden acceleration.
Mr. Lee's current attorney, Brent Schafer, said several '96 Camry owners whose cars were not in the recall have filed sudden-acceleration complaints with federal regulators.
Bob Hilliard, a Texas attorney, is preparing a lawsuit by the victims in the Lee crash. Mr. Hilliard said other federal complaints suggest a defect more widespread than recalled cruise controls - something with engine control modules that could extend to other Toyota makes and model years.
Mr. Hilliard said he's aware of about 16 potential class-action cases filed around the country on the basis of the automaker's recent revelations. Attorneys for the victims' family declined to make them available, but Mr. Hilliard said they feel differently about Mr. Lee now. "They seem to have made peace with the fact that he's telling the truth," Mr. Hilliard said.
Mr. Lee said he's grateful.
"I feel like them believing in me is a gift that I've received from God," he said.
Mr. Schafer said he'll file paperwork soon asking to reexamine the wrecked Camry, which still sits at the St. Paul police impoundment lot. All sides expect that request to be granted. Then Mr. Schafer would have to persuade the judge that new evidence merits a new trial.
Judges usually are skeptical about claims of new evidence, but Joseph Daly, a law professor at Hamline University in St. Paul, said Lee's chances appear to be good. "I really think a judge would be inclined to let that evidence be presented," Mr. Daly said.
Still, Mr. Carruthers said several factors would work against Lee. Lee testified his brakes didn't work, not that his car suddenly accelerated. And two experts - a city mechanic and an engineer hired by Mr. Lee's insurance company - didn't identify sudden acceleration as a problem with the car. Mr. Schafer said sudden acceleration is the only reasonable explanation for what happened.
Mr. Lee said he never had driven before immigrating to the United States and settling in St. Paul's large Hmong community in 2004. He was working to get his high school equivalency degree before the crash, and he's still working on it in prison. He wept as he described the impact of his imprisonment on his wife and four children, ages 8, 5, 3 and 2, who are on welfare.
"Right now it is very difficult for them," Mr. Lee said tearfully. "It's because my children are still very young. My wife is going to school and there aren't people to help her out. My kids ask about me constantly. They ask me when I'm going to come home. They ask about me. I don't know what to say to them."
 
Relatives of the victims - who condemned Lee at his sentencing three years ago - now believe he is innocent and are planning to sue Toyota.

Read: Relatives found a bigger wallet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down-playing Toyotas issues by any means, but that's what I get from that.
 
This shit is about to get very serious

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...t-rescue-jailed-minnesota-man/article1480692/


'Toyota defence' might rescue jailed Minnesota man

By Steve Karnowski
The Associated Press
'I know 100 per cent in my heart that I took my foot off the gas and that I was stepping on the brakes as hard as possible'

Ever since his 1996 Toyota Camry shot up an interstate ramp, plowing into the back of an Oldsmobile in a horrific crash that killed three people, Koua Fong Lee insisted he had done everything he could to stop the car.
A jury didn't believe him, and a judge sentenced him to eight years in prison. But now, new revelations of safety problems with Toyotas have Mr. Lee pressing to get his case reopened and his freedom restored. Relatives of the victims - who condemned Lee at his sentencing three years ago - now believe he is innocent and are planning to sue Toyota. The prosecutor who sent Mr. Lee to prison said he thinks the case merits another look.
"I know 100 per cent in my heart that I took my foot off the gas and that I was stepping on the brakes as hard as possible," Mr. Lee said in an interview Wednesday at the state prison in Lino Lakes. "When the brakes were looked at and we were told that nothing was wrong with the brakes, I was shocked."

SNIP

Sorry but that is NOT a toyota issue. His car is older and was a direct system (cable). That and in the current cases, like the tropper in CA, the brakes were roasted and burned out. In this case his brakes were fine.

Also older Toyota cars did not have as many complaints as they do now. Toyota does have issues with its cars in the last 5-10 years, but older than that it came in around the same level as everybody else.

Like someone else said, the people see a bigger wallet. I agree things like this will pop up more, but not because Toyota cars 10+ years old had issues, but that these people see money because of toyotas current cars and their problems.
 
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Have there been any reports of "software updates" with this recall? The reason that I ask is that as I was driving through Knoxville, TN this morning, there was a Toyota commercial on for a local dealer that stated that all mechanical fixes have been installed and all software updated on all of their cars on the lot. I haven't heard software updates up to that point and wonder if he slipped something out that wasn't supposed to be....
 
Have there been any reports of "software updates" with this recall? The reason that I ask is that as I was driving through Knoxville, TN this morning, there was a Toyota commercial on for a local dealer that stated that all mechanical fixes have been installed and all software updated on all of their cars on the lot. I haven't heard software updates up to that point and wonder if he slipped something out that wasn't supposed to be....

It may refer to the Prius issue with the brakes?
 
I must say I was a little bit unsettled on my way home from work today when the toyota behind me on the highway suddenly surged forward. Apparently was just the driver deciding he wanted to go faster so he hit the gas and moved to the left lane - not like it helped him any, all 3 lanes were pretty well packed so he had to hit the brakes.

Normally I wouldn't think much of it, but with all this nonsense going on I almost don't trust the general toyota traffic out there.

I know the feeling, every time I'm behind a Ford SUV I'm thinking it's going to roll over or catch fire in front of me. 🙂
 
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