And as a result of Toyota getting so big, they are now having their share of quality issues just like the big 3 did. Toyota is riding high on their recent past reputation (and its well deserved too). The new Camry is a perfect example of what is going wrong with Toyolet with the transmission issues, the cheapness of the interior, etc. The new Tundra....selling worse than the old one and is no threat to the F150 or Silverado.
One product which happens to be truck with 381 HP while GM, Dodge and Ford are spewing a bunch of vehicle commercials (not trucks) all over 300 HP.
The only ownage here is the dumb American Sheeple.
They are also being held back by their image of being unreliable and low resale value in comparison to Toyota.
It will take a few years, but things can turn around. GM and Ford still have a few vestiges from the old days. They've both taking steps to turn that around though besides just improving the cars like reducing dependency on fleet sales.
So uh.....
How has GM managed more sales than Toyota up to this point, probably comparable manufacturing costs (I believe the majority of toyota's cars are in America or Japan are made in America or Japan), and yet loses money as Toyota skyrockets?
Sounds like a poorly managed company. Seems like American management needs to take a step back and look at how Asian companies do it. Or better yet, American stockholders.
How has GM managed more sales than Toyota up to this point, probably comparable manufacturing costs (I believe the majority of toyota's cars are in America or Japan are made in America or Japan), and yet loses money as Toyota skyrockets?
Sounds like a poorly managed company. Seems like American management needs to take a step back and look at how Asian companies do it. Or better yet, American stockholders.
middlehead
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
- 4,573
- 2
- 81
Apparently it makes the baby Jesus cry.Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I don't understand. What is wrong with having cars with 300hp?
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
I'm just an armchair analyst so my opinion isn't really worth squat....
But....
I think a huge problem for the "Big US 3" is their inability to get away from badge engineering. They put so much work into trying to make a generic vehicle that can be worked over by 5 different brands only to dilute the overall quality and attention to detail that Honda or Toyota put into their cars. It's like they engineer down to the lowest common denominator.
Choice is good, but sometimes too many choices are bad. Do I want a Chevy? Or a Buick? Or a Saturn? Or a maybe a Pontiac of the same basic car(size, engine, ect) minus a different grill and maybe one option or two. Awww screw it. I'm just going to get a Honda because I can't make up my mind.
I know that Honda and Toyota do quite a bit of carryover to Lexus and Acura, but when Honda takes the Accord to the plate for a redesign they don't have 5 other brands trying to suck away at the teet of attention.
foghorn67
Lifer
- Jan 3, 2006
- 11,883
- 63
- 91
Seeing how most have cylinder de-activation or uber tall gearing, how does HP relate to your equation?
How is Toyota different?
Most of the commercials I have seen about HP is the Tundra.
The only commercial I have seen for Ford is the Fusion and Edge, which don't name specific HP numbers.
Neither do the GM commercials I have seen.
Perhaps you are talking about local/regional commercials for your area made by the dealerships?
AgaBoogaBoo
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2003
- 26,108
- 5
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Compare the number of options available on each brand and platform - Honda is by far the simplest.
Starting at something that basic is the best way, I don't remember numbers, but the total number of combinations available in cars is drastically less with Honda than other brands. Honda will give you less colors to choose from for the body's paint, but in the end it will be cheaper for them since they're buying fewer things in larger quantities, have less products and buyers and suppliers to keep track of. They started everything based on these principles along with many other minor things that help them produce cars more efficiently with a higher reliability.
AgaBoogaBoo
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2003
- 26,108
- 5
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I don't think his point was about specific numbers, but rather the general image of each brand. When a person thinks Toyota, they think simple, efficient (gas mileage), and reliability. Whether or not those are all still true, that's what a person thinks, and that's what sells the car.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,590
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Originally posted by: bctbct
GM decided to bow out of the race to be biggest and opted to be profitable. But a gold star to Toyota to keep their fans happy
Funny, Toyota is both bigger and more profitable. I don't see why the two have to be mutually exclusive...well, assuming you're comparing two comparable companies and not one well run and organized one and one that has it's hands and feet tied by union thugs of course.
AgaBoogaBoo
Lifer
- Feb 16, 2003
- 26,108
- 5
- 81
Take a look at gas prices - every damn time you fill up gas, you notice the price. Doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, the gas prices are going up and if you value your money even a little bit, you'll notice it going up. We're constantly filling up our cars with gas.Originally posted by: middlehead
Apparently it makes the baby Jesus cry.Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I don't understand. What is wrong with having cars with 300hp?
Toyota has a different image and branding that they've established for quite a while. Other companies looked at Toyota/Honda and just thought how stupid they are, but now since the problems are more evident, it's clear they were doing the right thing.
Honestly, until I see that GM changes their platform and image, it will be hard to recommend one of their cars to a person who just wants a simple daily driver that gets good gas mileage, and is reliable. I'll just say, go over to Toyota, you won't have any confusion, it'll be as simple as ordering food at a restaraunt.
You can say whatever you want about it being bland, but it's what people want.
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: bctbct
GM decided to bow out of the race to be biggest and opted to be profitable. But a gold star to Toyota to keep their fans happy
Funny, Toyota is both bigger and more profitable. I don't see why the two have to be mutually exclusive...well, assuming you're comparing two comparable companies and not one well run and organized one and one that has it's hands and feet tied by union thugs of course.
Not the union thug argument again.
Toy is more profitable because their customers pay more for a basic car. They also are taking advantage of cheap labor in the South, new plants with HUGE tax incentives. Getting to the top is easier than staying at the top.
Perception whether it is valid or not sells Toyota, for now.
Ktulu
Diamond Member
- Dec 16, 2000
- 4,354
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: bctbct
GM decided to bow out of the race to be biggest and opted to be profitable. But a gold star to Toyota to keep their fans happy
Funny, Toyota is both bigger and more profitable. I don't see why the two have to be mutually exclusive...well, assuming you're comparing two comparable companies and not one well run and organized one and one that has it's hands and feet tied by union thugs of course.
Not the union thug argument again.
Toy is more profitable because their customers pay more for a basic car. They also are taking advantage of cheap Non Unionized labor in the South, new plants with HUGE tax incentives. Getting to the top is easier than staying at the top.
Perception whether it is valid or not sells Toyota, for now.
Fixed
Also, GM/Ford spend a hell of alot more money on legacy costs than Toyota, legacy costs brought about by union members. I thought we've been over this.
Just thought I 'd throw this in here since Ford is the devil for only producing large vehicles 'that people wanted BTW'
Dearborn, Michigan - While 70 per cent of Ford Motor Company's vehicle sales in the U.S. were trucks and traditional SUVs three years ago, the company says the split is now nearly 50/50, with a major consumer shift to crossover vehicles and midsize cars.
Crossover sales overall have grown from 500,000 in 2000 to 2.4 million in 2006, surpassing both full-size pickups and SUVs in annual sales. Ford predicts crossover sales to reach at least three million units per year by the end of the decade, challenging small cars as the industry's largest segment.
The company currently produces the Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossovers in Oakville, Ontario, and will add the all-new Ford Flex in 2008. Ford says that the Edge, after only three months on the market, is outperforming the Fusion sedan in sales, while the Lincoln MKX is outselling the Acura RDX and both Infiniti FX models. Altogether, first-quarter sales of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury crossovers in the U.S. climbed 29 per cent, the largest increase of any major automaker.
Dearborn, Michigan - While 70 per cent of Ford Motor Company's vehicle sales in the U.S. were trucks and traditional SUVs three years ago, the company says the split is now nearly 50/50, with a major consumer shift to crossover vehicles and midsize cars.
Crossover sales overall have grown from 500,000 in 2000 to 2.4 million in 2006, surpassing both full-size pickups and SUVs in annual sales. Ford predicts crossover sales to reach at least three million units per year by the end of the decade, challenging small cars as the industry's largest segment.
The company currently produces the Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossovers in Oakville, Ontario, and will add the all-new Ford Flex in 2008. Ford says that the Edge, after only three months on the market, is outperforming the Fusion sedan in sales, while the Lincoln MKX is outselling the Acura RDX and both Infiniti FX models. Altogether, first-quarter sales of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury crossovers in the U.S. climbed 29 per cent, the largest increase of any major automaker.
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