Toyota offering buyouts to 18,000 US workers

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.

Without going into details... they have a set number in mind that they hope will take it, maybe a few thousand, but if all 18K took it they would be screwed.

I have to disagree with that. They're just attempting to do the same thing the domestics have done and want to further encourage. Getting rid of the high priced help allows you to hire low priced help. Production is in the toilet, a perfect time to train a new workforce. Which, if you're here very much, the majority feel will take all of ten minutes. Anyone can put in a bolt - right? :roll:

I think when a major corporation puts out a number like that, they are fully prepared for that number to go. They understand as well if not more than the next person, that it's not going to happen, but if it does, that's all the better.

Putting out a number of 18,000 is not going to make 2,000 fence sitters decide to go. If they say 18,000 they're prepared and hoping for that number.

Trust me, from industry experience on this one... they do NOT want all 18K to go. They expect a certain number to go based on trends they have from surveys and other methods and will come up with a buyout package suitable enough to hit that number plus or minus some certain amount.

 

[Strk]

It's not really a surprise. Toyota has gone through rapid expansion and were hit pretty bad by the downturn. Obviously, everyone has been hit hard, but Toyota was posting some of the industry's largest profits.

Is Honda the only major auto company still posting profits? I think Subaru, but they're pretty small compared to everyone else.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Strk
It's not really a surprise. Toyota has gone through rapid expansion and were hit pretty bad by the downturn. Obviously, everyone has been hit hard, but Toyota was posting some of the industry's largest profits.

Is Honda the only major auto company still posting profits? I think Subaru, but they're pretty small compared to everyone else.

Hyundai Motor Co. is still posting a profit increase.
Kia Motors Corp. is still posting a profit increase.

And yes, that is over last year's results.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Strk
It's not really a surprise. Toyota has gone through rapid expansion and were hit pretty bad by the downturn. Obviously, everyone has been hit hard, but Toyota was posting some of the industry's largest profits.

Is Honda the only major auto company still posting profits? I think Subaru, but they're pretty small compared to everyone else.

Hyundai Motor Co. is still posting a profit increase.
Kia Motors Corp. is still posting a profit increase.

And yes, that is over last year's results.

Yep, cheaper (price) cars = more sales = more profit.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Strk
It's not really a surprise. Toyota has gone through rapid expansion and were hit pretty bad by the downturn. Obviously, everyone has been hit hard, but Toyota was posting some of the industry's largest profits.

Is Honda the only major auto company still posting profits? I think Subaru, but they're pretty small compared to everyone else.

Hyundai Motor Co. is still posting a profit increase.
Kia Motors Corp. is still posting a profit increase.

And yes, that is over last year's results.

I thought Hyundai and Kia merged?

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Strk
It's not really a surprise. Toyota has gone through rapid expansion and were hit pretty bad by the downturn. Obviously, everyone has been hit hard, but Toyota was posting some of the industry's largest profits.

Is Honda the only major auto company still posting profits? I think Subaru, but they're pretty small compared to everyone else.

Hyundai Motor Co. is still posting a profit increase.
Kia Motors Corp. is still posting a profit increase.

And yes, that is over last year's results.

I thought Hyundai and Kia merged?

AFAIK, no.

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.

Without going into details... they have a set number in mind that they hope will take it, maybe a few thousand, but if all 18K took it they would be screwed.

I have to disagree with that. They're just attempting to do the same thing the domestics have done and want to further encourage. Getting rid of the high priced help allows you to hire low priced help. Production is in the toilet, a perfect time to train a new workforce. Which, if you're here very much, the majority feel will take all of ten minutes. Anyone can put in a bolt - right? :roll:

I think when a major corporation puts out a number like that, they are fully prepared for that number to go. They understand as well if not more than the next person, that it's not going to happen, but if it does, that's all the better.

Putting out a number of 18,000 is not going to make 2,000 fence sitters decide to go. If they say 18,000 they're prepared and hoping for that number.

Trust me, from industry experience on this one... they do NOT want all 18K to go. They expect a certain number to go based on trends they have from surveys and other methods and will come up with a buyout package suitable enough to hit that number plus or minus some certain amount.

Fingolfin269 has it exactly right. They have models that show how many people will accept the package.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.

Without going into details... they have a set number in mind that they hope will take it, maybe a few thousand, but if all 18K took it they would be screwed.

I have to disagree with that. They're just attempting to do the same thing the domestics have done and want to further encourage. Getting rid of the high priced help allows you to hire low priced help. Production is in the toilet, a perfect time to train a new workforce. Which, if you're here very much, the majority feel will take all of ten minutes. Anyone can put in a bolt - right? :roll:

I think when a major corporation puts out a number like that, they are fully prepared for that number to go. They understand as well if not more than the next person, that it's not going to happen, but if it does, that's all the better.

Putting out a number of 18,000 is not going to make 2,000 fence sitters decide to go. If they say 18,000 they're prepared and hoping for that number.

Trust me, from industry experience on this one... they do NOT want all 18K to go. They expect a certain number to go based on trends they have from surveys and other methods and will come up with a buyout package suitable enough to hit that number plus or minus some certain amount.

Fingolfin269 has it exactly right. They have models that show how many people will accept the package.

OK, I concede. Not a problem.

I'm curious why they would throw out a big number like that. Fairness - offering it to all? Psychology, making things look dire - to entice more people into taking it? Blowing smoke up the BOD's asses? What's the reasoning?

Edit: Pluralized ass to asses (how often do you get to do that, huh?)

 

[spidey07]

The offer is to all, depending on years of service it can be or not be in an employee's best interest.

Again - this is to avoid unemployment claims. By making the employee have a choice, they cannot claim unemployment.

 

[soccerballtux]

Hey maybe if Chrystler and GM weren't saturating the market with inefficiency, Toyota would be picking up extra car sales--> not need to lay off as many workers.

This is a prime example of why inefficient companies need to die and we're seeing how them _not_ dying hurts the better guys.

 

[spidey07]

Buy out extended to UK along with shorter hours, keep in mind workers are hourly so all of this is essentially a paycut.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/.../idUKTRE51H2QF20090218

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
Hey maybe if Chrystler and GM weren't saturating the market with inefficiency, Toyota would be picking up extra car sales--> not need to lay off as many workers.

This is a prime example of why inefficient companies need to die and we're seeing how them _not_ dying hurts the better guys.

So your argument is that people should have fewer options, making the remaining few get more sales? I'm not entirely sure how they're saturating the market with inefficiency though.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: spidey07
And yet the Toyota Union is demanding a pay raise and an annual $22,500 bonus. The buyout is nothing more than to avoid all the unemployment benefit claims.

I don't know about a pay raise, but Japanese companies normally pay employees a year end bonus of a few months salary. This is standard practice and one of the reasons japanese save so much money.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Ktulu
[
Anybody here still believe that the current auto industry crisis has to do with their products and not the economy? I remember so many people here saying to let GM die, afterall Toyota will just buy up there plants and hire their workers. No way that's gonna happen, they're getting f*cked too now.

It's the American infatuation with high speed/high dollar automobiles that people suddenly are afraid to spend money on now. Let them die.

High speed/high dollar automobiles as you put it, make up a very small % of the market, too small to have any sort of an impact.

See, you have the typical American outlook. What you consider high speed/high dollar, and what I consider high speed/high dollar are vastly different.

Top 10 best-selling cars/trucks in America and their prices, from cars.com

Ford F-series $21k+
Chevy Silverado $19k+
Toyota Camry $19k+
Honda Accord $20k+
Toyota Corolla $15k+
Honda Civic $15k+
Nissan Altima $19k+
Chevy Impala $23k+
Dodge Ram $21k+
Honda CRV $21k+

You may not consider a $20k Accord a high speed/high dollar vehicle, but $20k is a crapload of money spent just to get to work. Americans can afford it, so they spend it. But recently people can't afford even that so they're not buying new cars across the board.

Nobody wants a KIA Rio for $11k, or a Smart Car for $12k. I'm not saying that these 2 cars in particular are the answer, but if people started wanting $11k cars, then all of the major automakers could produce them. They'd be slow, "ugly", and lack a lot of fancy features. But guess what, they'd get people to work just the same.

Wow, I usually agree with you Bill, but on this we are polar opposites. a $20K vehicle is not high dollar. How about $40K+ BWM's and Lexus.
the reason the top ten vehicles are the top 10 is that the offer the best price/feature/performace ratio of all the vehicles on the road.

You know, I go to work, I should have something to show for it. I spent $20K on a used Silverado because it's the vehicle i wanted. Not everyone can fit comfortably in every vehicle. I'm taller than average and have huge feet so a little car just won't work for me. I actually tried with a Kia Spectra and I had to give it up. I loved the gas milage, but I felt like I was in a clown car.
As far as the mfg making what people wanted, that's what they did. Why else do you think there are tons of SUV's from all makes on the road. Toyota has the most SUVs in their line up.

I do think we need to have more deisel options here, but with the overly restrictive regulations on deisel emissions it's just been to hard to impliment. I just hope GM can bring out the 4.5L turbo charged Deisel for the 1500 series trucks/suburbans, through the new 6 speed transmission on it and I'll buy that.

compared to average US income levels a 20k car is rather expensive. If people are struggling to make mortgage payments into the four digits, how are they going to pay for a car loan (let alone some that attempt 2) of 400+ a month.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.

Without going into details... they have a set number in mind that they hope will take it, maybe a few thousand, but if all 18K took it they would be screwed.

That's a crock. If they have a set number, they could come up with names to go with that set number, give them a severance package and let them go. If Toyota is offering buyouts to 18,000 peeps, they want to trim their workforce by 18,000 peeps. There is nothing to read into it.

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: Strk
It's not really a surprise. Toyota has gone through rapid expansion and were hit pretty bad by the downturn. Obviously, everyone has been hit hard, but Toyota was posting some of the industry's largest profits.

Is Honda the only major auto company still posting profits? I think Subaru, but they're pretty small compared to everyone else.

Hyundai Motor Co. is still posting a profit increase.
Kia Motors Corp. is still posting a profit increase.

And yes, that is over last year's results.

I thought Hyundai and Kia merged?

AFAIK, no.

Why don't you look it up? Hyundai and Kia merged in 1998.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: spidey07
And yet the Toyota Union is demanding a pay raise and an annual $22,500 bonus. The buyout is nothing more than to avoid all the unemployment benefit claims.

I don't know about a pay raise, but Japanese companies normally pay employees a year end bonus of a few months salary. This is standard practice and one of the reasons japanese save so much money.

So why no outrage at the Toyota Union for the bonuses? We're talking about $22,500 dollar bonus here (per year) for people putting bolts on a car.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: spidey07
And yet the Toyota Union is demanding a pay raise and an annual $22,500 bonus. The buyout is nothing more than to avoid all the unemployment benefit claims.

I don't know about a pay raise, but Japanese companies normally pay employees a year end bonus of a few months salary. This is standard practice and one of the reasons japanese save so much money.

So why no outrage at the Toyota Union for the bonuses? We're talking about $22,500 dollar bonus here (per year) for people putting bolts on a car.

It's only $22,500 because of the lousy exchange rate, the dollar is in the tank.
And this is normal. Japanese workers get a lower salary in exchange for a large bonus at the end of the year.
What are you saying, that japanese autoworkers are overpaid? Because I think they earn every yen they are paid. What is it that you do that makes you so superior to "people putting bolts on a car"?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.

Without going into details... they have a set number in mind that they hope will take it, maybe a few thousand, but if all 18K took it they would be screwed.

That's a crock. If they have a set number, they could come up with names to go with that set number, give them a severance package and let them go. If Toyota is offering buyouts to 18,000 peeps, they want to trim their workforce by 18,000 peeps. There is nothing to read into it.

Believe what you want man. What I wrote is the truth and I am not getting into further specifics. In fact I guess it's in my best interest to just avoid this thread entirely.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: spidey07
The offer is to all, depending on years of service it can be or not be in an employee's best interest.

Again - this is to avoid unemployment claims. By making the employee have a choice, they cannot claim unemployment.

How does it impact a company to have employees claim unemployment insurance; the companies don't pay it out, gov does.

compared to average US income levels a 20k car is rather expensive.

It SHOULD be, but to most people they don't seem to think it's a big deal to pay a substantial part of monthly income on their car. I don't agree with it, but that's what people are used to.

That's a crock. If they have a set number, they could come up with names to go with that set number, give them a severance package and let them go. If Toyota is offering buyouts to 18,000 peeps, they want to trim their workforce by 18,000 peeps. There is nothing to read into it.

I don't know either way, but I'm inclined to the % approach. If Toyota wants 9000 gone and knows that 50% typically accept packages like this they can either offer to 18k or they can pick 9000 workers to can. To them, the impact is the same either way, but to an employee what would you rather have? In one case you have an option and a sense from your employer that it's trying to do right by you and in the other you have no option; you're gone.