Toyota offering buyouts to 18,000 US workers

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
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http://uk.reuters.com/article/.../idUKTRE51G0WE20090217

SAN ANTONIO (Reuters) - Even though Toyota Motor Corp touts its mighty Tundra pickup as "the truck that's changing it all," workers who build it in San Antonio are not immune from the threat of layoffs that have beset the Big Three U.S. automakers.

Opening the $1.2 billion plant in San Antonio in early 2007 was part of Toyota's public relations campaign to displace big U.S. truck makers like Ford, Chevy and Dodge in Texas, the world's largest market for full-sized pickup trucks.

But Toyota's timing in San Antonio could hardly have been worse.

In 2008, U.S. gasoline prices hit $4 a gallon, triggering a sharp drop in demand for gas-guzzling trucks like the Tundra. Toyota can produce nearly 200,000 Tundras a year in San Antonio, but North American sales fell to 137,000 in 2008 from 196,000 in 2007.

As U.S. automakers shut down plants and clamor for government funds in the face of a sharp drop in vehicle sales and a deepening recession, Toyota, the world's No. 1 automaker, is resisting job cuts for its 1,900 workers in San Antonio, instead reducing the workweek in the hopes sales will pick up.

But as Toyota faces its first corporate loss in its 70-year history, the automaker for the first time is offering buyouts to 18,000 of its U.S. workers in an attempt to thin its factory workforce voluntarily.

Worries about layoffs, which have cost 140,000 jobs at factories operated by U.S. automakers since 2005, also hang over San Antonio and "Toyota towns" in Indiana and Kentucky.

San Antonio attorney Julian Castro, a former City Council member who helped lure Toyota in 2003 to the Texas city of 1.3 million people, said he was "terribly concerned" the company might decide to cut jobs at the plant.

With the drop in Tundra sales, Toyota last week unveiled its 2010 Tundra, which can be fitted with a smaller, more fuel-efficient V8 engine.

"When the heat is on, failure ain't an option," the announcer says in a Tundra ad titled "Super Heat" that debuted during the 2009 Super Bowl.

After constructing two U.S. factories to build the Tundra, Toyota later this year will shift Tundra production from its Indiana plant to San Antonio and consolidate all production of the vehicle there.

San Antonio workers in November wrapped up a three-month production halt, where they drew full pay even while the plant was idled.

San Antonio plant worker Lori Williams remains upbeat.

"We're very positive," Williams said. "Everybody here is very glad they are not getting laid off. That's pretty much across the board."

CONFRONTING THE DOWNTURN

Toyota is on track to post an operating loss of $4.95 billion for the year ending March 31, its first-ever group-wide operating loss.

The company last week announced a series of measures designed to confront the worst automotive slump in decades.

The measures, which will apply to San Antonio and other U.S. assembly plants and parts operations in Indiana, Alabama, Missouri and West Virginia, include cutting salaried employee bonuses, slashing executive pay by as much as 30 percent and cutting pay for some factory workers by 10 percent by reducing hours.

"We hope the new measures will help us adjust while protecting jobs," said Jim Wiseman, vice president of external affairs for Toyota's North America unit.

The vast majority of Toyota's 25,000 factory workers in North America are not represented by a union and attempts by the United Auto Workers to organize the automaker's factories have hit a wall.

General Motors Corp is seeking concessions from the UAW and creditors under the terms of its $13.4 billion federal bailout and faces a Tuesday deadline to submit a restructuring plan to U.S. officials showing how it can cut costs and pay back the loans.

Last week, GM said it would cut 10,000 salaried jobs and is offering buyouts to some 22,000 of its factory workers.

Facing the same Tuesday deadline, GM's smaller rival Chrysler LLC was locked in nonstop negotiations with the UAW.

Anybody here still believe that the current auto industry crisis has to do with their products and not the economy? I remember so many people here saying to let GM die, afterall Toyota will just buy up there plants and hire their workers. No way that's gonna happen, they're getting f*cked too now.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Originally posted by: Ktulu
[
Anybody here still believe that the current auto industry crisis has to do with their products and not the economy? I remember so many people here saying to let GM die, afterall Toyota will just buy up there plants and hire their workers. No way that's gonna happen, they're getting f*cked too now.

It's the American infatuation with high speed/high dollar automobiles that people suddenly are afraid to spend money on now. Let them die.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Ktulu
[
Anybody here still believe that the current auto industry crisis has to do with their products and not the economy? I remember so many people here saying to let GM die, afterall Toyota will just buy up there plants and hire their workers. No way that's gonna happen, they're getting f*cked too now.

It's the American infatuation with high speed/high dollar automobiles that people suddenly are afraid to spend money on now. Let them die.

High speed/high dollar automobiles as you put it, make up a very small % of the market, too small to have any sort of an impact.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Ktulu
[
Anybody here still believe that the current auto industry crisis has to do with their products and not the economy? I remember so many people here saying to let GM die, afterall Toyota will just buy up there plants and hire their workers. No way that's gonna happen, they're getting f*cked too now.

It's the American infatuation with high speed/high dollar automobiles that people suddenly are afraid to spend money on now. Let them die.

High speed/high dollar automobiles as you put it, make up a very small % of the market, too small to have any sort of an impact.

See, you have the typical American outlook. What you consider high speed/high dollar, and what I consider high speed/high dollar are vastly different.

Top 10 best-selling cars/trucks in America and their prices, from cars.com

Ford F-series $21k+
Chevy Silverado $19k+
Toyota Camry $19k+
Honda Accord $20k+
Toyota Corolla $15k+
Honda Civic $15k+
Nissan Altima $19k+
Chevy Impala $23k+
Dodge Ram $21k+
Honda CRV $21k+

You may not consider a $20k Accord a high speed/high dollar vehicle, but $20k is a crapload of money spent just to get to work. Americans can afford it, so they spend it. But recently people can't afford even that so they're not buying new cars across the board.

Nobody wants a KIA Rio for $11k, or a Smart Car for $12k. I'm not saying that these 2 cars in particular are the answer, but if people started wanting $11k cars, then all of the major automakers could produce them. They'd be slow, "ugly", and lack a lot of fancy features. But guess what, they'd get people to work just the same.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Ktulu
[
Anybody here still believe that the current auto industry crisis has to do with their products and not the economy? I remember so many people here saying to let GM die, afterall Toyota will just buy up there plants and hire their workers. No way that's gonna happen, they're getting f*cked too now.

It's the American infatuation with high speed/high dollar automobiles that people suddenly are afraid to spend money on now. Let them die.

High speed/high dollar automobiles as you put it, make up a very small % of the market, too small to have any sort of an impact.

See, you have the typical American outlook. What you consider high speed/high dollar, and what I consider high speed/high dollar are vastly different.

Top 10 best-selling cars/trucks in America and their prices, from cars.com

Ford F-series $21k+
Chevy Silverado $19k+
Toyota Camry $19k+
Honda Accord $20k+
Toyota Corolla $15k+
Honda Civic $15k+
Nissan Altima $19k+
Chevy Impala $23k+
Dodge Ram $21k+
Honda CRV $21k+

You may not consider a $20k Accord a high speed/high dollar vehicle, but $20k is a crapload of money spent just to get to work. Americans can afford it, so they spend it. But recently people can't afford even that so they're not buying new cars across the board.

Nobody wants a KIA Rio for $11k, or a Smart Car for $12k. I'm not saying that these 2 cars in particular are the answer, but if people started wanting $11k cars, then all of the major automakers could produce them. They'd be slow, "ugly", and lack a lot of fancy features. But guess what, they'd get people to work just the same.

I don't see how the higher priced cars are keeping people from buying the more affordable alternatives. Shouldn't that make people take a closer look at cheap transportation? And I never said that a 20k Accord wasn't expensive, but when you say high speed/high dollar of course I'm gonna think of a 30K+ sports cars.
 

mooseracing

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2006
1,711
0
0
Originally posted by: TallBill


You may not consider a $20k Accord a high speed/high dollar vehicle, but $20k is a crapload of money spent just to get to work. Americans can afford it, so they spend it. But recently people can't afford even that so they're not buying new cars across the board.

Nobody wants a KIA Rio for $11k, or a Smart Car for $12k. I'm not saying that these 2 cars in particular are the answer, but if people started wanting $11k cars, then all of the major automakers could produce them. They'd be slow, "ugly", and lack a lot of fancy features. But guess what, they'd get people to work just the same.

More like most of America is overpayed. I drive an 85 F150 for the last 10yrs, why buy a new car? Not like I could afford it, unless I financed it all. My g/f and I survive on 55K a year, I have multiple cars, motorcycles, expensive ass enterprise server hardware, all kinds of tools, and only student loan debt.

There is no need for the salaries this country makes and still have the debt we do.

I think the market is just correcting itself for so many people that have been overindulging since the first Bush administration.



edit: forgot to mention, the toyota article has different views, some say it as first ever loss, others state it as highest lostt but not first. I haven't found a reputable source yet.

 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Originally posted by: Ktulu

I don't see how the higher priced cars are keeping people from buying the more affordable alternatives. Shouldn't that make people take a closer look at cheap transportation? And I never said that a 20k Accord wasn't expensive, but when you say high speed/high dollar of course I'm gonna think of a 30K+ sports cars.

Yeah, I should have clarified that better in my first post. It should make a person look for a cheaper car, but the fact is that people don't want to drive those $11k cars. Instead they turn to public transportation (which we all pay for), or they get a used version of the $20k car for $10k.

But obviously something has to give, because people are not spending money on new cars in huge amounts right now.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Ktulu
[
Anybody here still believe that the current auto industry crisis has to do with their products and not the economy? I remember so many people here saying to let GM die, afterall Toyota will just buy up there plants and hire their workers. No way that's gonna happen, they're getting f*cked too now.

It's the American infatuation with high speed/high dollar automobiles that people suddenly are afraid to spend money on now. Let them die.

High speed/high dollar automobiles as you put it, make up a very small % of the market, too small to have any sort of an impact.

See, you have the typical American outlook. What you consider high speed/high dollar, and what I consider high speed/high dollar are vastly different.

Top 10 best-selling cars/trucks in America and their prices, from cars.com

Ford F-series $21k+
Chevy Silverado $19k+
Toyota Camry $19k+
Honda Accord $20k+
Toyota Corolla $15k+
Honda Civic $15k+
Nissan Altima $19k+
Chevy Impala $23k+
Dodge Ram $21k+
Honda CRV $21k+

You may not consider a $20k Accord a high speed/high dollar vehicle, but $20k is a crapload of money spent just to get to work. Americans can afford it, so they spend it. But recently people can't afford even that so they're not buying new cars across the board.

Nobody wants a KIA Rio for $11k, or a Smart Car for $12k. I'm not saying that these 2 cars in particular are the answer, but if people started wanting $11k cars, then all of the major automakers could produce them. They'd be slow, "ugly", and lack a lot of fancy features. But guess what, they'd get people to work just the same.
So you're griping that nobody is producing the car you want at the price you want and that's the fault of domestic automakers or what? I can't follow your reasoning here at all.
Edit: Didn't see your reply above until after I posted this.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: mooseracing
Originally posted by: TallBill


You may not consider a $20k Accord a high speed/high dollar vehicle, but $20k is a crapload of money spent just to get to work. Americans can afford it, so they spend it. But recently people can't afford even that so they're not buying new cars across the board.

Nobody wants a KIA Rio for $11k, or a Smart Car for $12k. I'm not saying that these 2 cars in particular are the answer, but if people started wanting $11k cars, then all of the major automakers could produce them. They'd be slow, "ugly", and lack a lot of fancy features. But guess what, they'd get people to work just the same.

More like most of America is overpayed. I drive an 85 F150 for the last 10yrs, why buy a new car? Not like I could afford it, unless I financed it all. My g/f and I survive on 55K a year, I have multiple cars, motorcycles, expensive ass enterprise server hardware, all kinds of tools, and only student loan debt.

There is no need for the salaries this country makes and still have the debt we do.

I think the market is just correcting itself for so many people that have been overindulging since the baby boomers 40 year spending spree starting with Master Card in the late 60's.



edit: forgot to mention, the toyota article has different views, some say it as first ever loss, others state it as highest lostt but not first. I haven't found a reputable source yet.

Corrected for accuracy. Hope you dont mind :)
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: mooseracing
Originally posted by: TallBill


You may not consider a $20k Accord a high speed/high dollar vehicle, but $20k is a crapload of money spent just to get to work. Americans can afford it, so they spend it. But recently people can't afford even that so they're not buying new cars across the board.

Nobody wants a KIA Rio for $11k, or a Smart Car for $12k. I'm not saying that these 2 cars in particular are the answer, but if people started wanting $11k cars, then all of the major automakers could produce them. They'd be slow, "ugly", and lack a lot of fancy features. But guess what, they'd get people to work just the same.

More like most of America is overpayed. I drive an 85 F150 for the last 10yrs, why buy a new car? Not like I could afford it, unless I financed it all. My g/f and I survive on 55K a year, I have multiple cars, motorcycles, expensive ass enterprise server hardware, all kinds of tools, and only student loan debt.

There is no need for the salaries this country makes and still have the debt we do.

I think the market is just correcting itself for so many people that have been overindulging since the first Bush administration.



edit: forgot to mention, the toyota article has different views, some say it as first ever loss, others state it as highest lostt but not first. I haven't found a reputable source yet.
They had a loss way back in the mid-fifties IIRC.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.

Without going into details... they have a set number in mind that they hope will take it, maybe a few thousand, but if all 18K took it they would be screwed.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.

They are expecting a certain percentage of that 18K to take the buyout.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Originally posted by: rudder
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.

They are expecting a certain percentage of that 18K to take the buyout.

There was probably some sort of sample group or survey, "What would it take for you to leave?" If they wanted to get rid of 9k of the 18k they'd just find the 50% guesstimate.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Offering a buyout to 18K doesn't mean they want to cut 18K workers.

Please, tell us what it means then.

Without going into details... they have a set number in mind that they hope will take it, maybe a few thousand, but if all 18K took it they would be screwed.
I have to disagree with that. They're just attempting to do the same thing the domestics have done and want to further encourage. Getting rid of the high priced help allows you to hire low priced help. Production is in the toilet, a perfect time to train a new workforce. Which, if you're here very much, the majority feel will take all of ten minutes. Anyone can put in a bolt - right? :roll:

I think when a major corporation puts out a number like that, they are fully prepared for that number to go. They understand as well if not more than the next person, that it's not going to happen, but if it does, that's all the better.

Putting out a number of 18,000 is not going to make 2,000 fence sitters decide to go. If they say 18,000 they're prepared and hoping for that number.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
And yet the Toyota Union is demanding a pay raise and an annual $22,500 bonus. The buyout is nothing more than to avoid all the unemployment benefit claims.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Ktulu
[
Anybody here still believe that the current auto industry crisis has to do with their products and not the economy? I remember so many people here saying to let GM die, afterall Toyota will just buy up there plants and hire their workers. No way that's gonna happen, they're getting f*cked too now.

It's the American infatuation with high speed/high dollar automobiles that people suddenly are afraid to spend money on now. Let them die.

High speed/high dollar automobiles as you put it, make up a very small % of the market, too small to have any sort of an impact.

See, you have the typical American outlook. What you consider high speed/high dollar, and what I consider high speed/high dollar are vastly different.

Top 10 best-selling cars/trucks in America and their prices, from cars.com

Ford F-series $21k+
Chevy Silverado $19k+
Toyota Camry $19k+
Honda Accord $20k+
Toyota Corolla $15k+
Honda Civic $15k+
Nissan Altima $19k+
Chevy Impala $23k+
Dodge Ram $21k+
Honda CRV $21k+

You may not consider a $20k Accord a high speed/high dollar vehicle, but $20k is a crapload of money spent just to get to work. Americans can afford it, so they spend it. But recently people can't afford even that so they're not buying new cars across the board.

Nobody wants a KIA Rio for $11k, or a Smart Car for $12k. I'm not saying that these 2 cars in particular are the answer, but if people started wanting $11k cars, then all of the major automakers could produce them. They'd be slow, "ugly", and lack a lot of fancy features. But guess what, they'd get people to work just the same.


Wow, I usually agree with you Bill, but on this we are polar opposites. a $20K vehicle is not high dollar. How about $40K+ BWM's and Lexus.
the reason the top ten vehicles are the top 10 is that the offer the best price/feature/performace ratio of all the vehicles on the road.

You know, I go to work, I should have something to show for it. I spent $20K on a used Silverado because it's the vehicle i wanted. Not everyone can fit comfortably in every vehicle. I'm taller than average and have huge feet :) so a little car just won't work for me. I actually tried with a Kia Spectra and I had to give it up. I loved the gas milage, but I felt like I was in a clown car.
As far as the mfg making what people wanted, that's what they did. Why else do you think there are tons of SUV's from all makes on the road. Toyota has the most SUVs in their line up.

I do think we need to have more deisel options here, but with the overly restrictive regulations on deisel emissions it's just been to hard to impliment. I just hope GM can bring out the 4.5L turbo charged Deisel for the 1500 series trucks/suburbans, through the new 6 speed transmission on it and I'll buy that.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Wow, I usually agree with you Bill, but on this we are polar opposites. a $20K vehicle is not high dollar. How about $40K+ BWM's and Lexus.
the reason the top ten vehicles are the top 10 is that the offer the best price/feature/performace ratio of all the vehicles on the road.

You know, I go to work, I should have something to show for it. I spent $20K on a used Silverado because it's the vehicle i wanted. Not everyone can fit comfortably in every vehicle. I'm taller than average and have huge feet :) so a little car just won't work for me. I actually tried with a Kia Spectra and I had to give it up. I loved the gas milage, but I felt like I was in a clown car.
As far as the mfg making what people wanted, that's what they did. Why else do you think there are tons of SUV's from all makes on the road. Toyota has the most SUVs in their line up.

I do think we need to have more deisel options here, but with the overly restrictive regulations on deisel emissions it's just been to hard to impliment. I just hope GM can bring out the 4.5L turbo charged Deisel for the 1500 series trucks/suburbans, through the new 6 speed transmission on it and I'll buy that.

I'm not blaming the car makers here. Like you admit, people don't want the small cheap car. But right now that's what is killing the auto makers. I wouldn't expect them to push small and cheap cars, because 3 years ago nobody would buy something like that. Even now, people would rather buy a used car. Although I don't get how they operated for such a long time and don't have enormous stockpiles of cash.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Wow, I usually agree with you Bill, but on this we are polar opposites. a $20K vehicle is not high dollar. How about $40K+ BWM's and Lexus.
the reason the top ten vehicles are the top 10 is that the offer the best price/feature/performace ratio of all the vehicles on the road.

You know, I go to work, I should have something to show for it. I spent $20K on a used Silverado because it's the vehicle i wanted. Not everyone can fit comfortably in every vehicle. I'm taller than average and have huge feet :) so a little car just won't work for me. I actually tried with a Kia Spectra and I had to give it up. I loved the gas milage, but I felt like I was in a clown car.
As far as the mfg making what people wanted, that's what they did. Why else do you think there are tons of SUV's from all makes on the road. Toyota has the most SUVs in their line up.

I do think we need to have more deisel options here, but with the overly restrictive regulations on deisel emissions it's just been to hard to impliment. I just hope GM can bring out the 4.5L turbo charged Deisel for the 1500 series trucks/suburbans, through the new 6 speed transmission on it and I'll buy that.

I'm not blaming the car makers here. Like you admit, people don't want the small cheap car. But right now that's what is killing the auto makers. I wouldn't expect them to push small and cheap cars, because 3 years ago nobody would buy something like that. Even now, people would rather buy a used car. Although I don't get how they operated for such a long time and don't have enormous stockpiles of cash.

It takes alot of money to keep up with those union contracts.