Toyota May Face Backlash From Congress

[iversonyin]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: ElFenix
if japan is manipulating the yen (i certainly haven't heard of it until just now) then that is a problem. just like if china is manipulating the yuan (which it is)

This has been brought up countless times by the Big 2.5

well i guess it has:

Source: Mustafa Mohatarem, Ph.D., Chief Economist, General Motors

ok, so the japanese are giving us an interest free loan to buy their products. their society as a whole has to pay for it somehow. but, because of wealth effects and market distortion, it could be that we suffer far more than they gain.

have i ever mentioned how much i dislike governments interfering in markets?

Here's my theory:

1. We don't want the Japanese to build ANY military after WWII.

2. Japanese save load of money on military spending.

3. Japanese use those savings on R&D/direct/indirect subsidies on manufacturers.

Now our domestic manufacturers are suffering from this. And you have Senators blaming the YEN? HEY, Sherlock, did you see what the DOLLAR do lately? Of course not, you've been lobbied to, going to Wizards game and having dinners with lobbyists/executives alike.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
if japan is manipulating the yen (i certainly haven't heard of it until just now) then that is a problem. just like if china is manipulating the yuan (which it is)

It's 120 yen to the dollar, which really isn't that bad. When I first moved there, it was around 145 to the dollar and then dropped to around 105 by the time we left in '05.

The Chinese can keep the yuan low until we get our next daughter in the next couple years. Then they can let it float and rise.

 

[theeedude]

Put Tarrifs on Japanese made cars to compensate for the weak yen. Then they'll have to build them in US to stay competitive.

 

[Amused]

Protectionism always backfires.

Hell, it was protectionism that made the great depression so bad.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Amused
Protectionism always backfires.

Hell, it was protectionism that made the great depression so bad.

Yes, and we need to make Japanese protectionism backfire on them.
They are subsidizing their automakers by keeping the yen artificially cheap, we nee to at the very least defend ourselves and offset that subsidy with a tarrif.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Amused
Protectionism always backfires.

Hell, it was protectionism that made the great depression so bad.

Yes, and we need to make Japanese protectionism backfire on them.
They are subsidizing their automakers by keeping the yen artificially cheap, we nee to at the very least defend ourselves and offset that subsidy with a tarrif.

Yes and we'd get smacked by the WTO. Only the Big three and a few scant others are decrying Japan for their currency valuation.

Toyota isnt whats killing the Big Three. The Unions in the last 30 years have whats killed the Big 3. Their healthcare is what is going to cause the Big Three to fold if something is not done.

 

[Wreckem]

"They're manipulating the yen and it creates big differences in what they can sell their automobiles for," said Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., who represents thousands of Detroit-based auto workers. "Most of their vehicles are still coming from Japan."

They note that 46 percent of Toyota's U.S. sales in 2006 came from vehicles imported from Japan, even as the company highlights its American work force and assembly plants in advertising

These two qoutes kill any ounce of credibility the politicos may have had on the issue.

First they say most of their vehicles are coming from Japan, but then they say the majority of Toyotas bought in the US are in fact made in the US.

The Toyota Camry is the the third most made in the USA automobile, right behind the F150 and Silverado.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: iversonyin

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: ElFenix
if japan is manipulating the yen (i certainly haven't heard of it until just now) then that is a problem. just like if china is manipulating the yuan (which it is)

This has been brought up countless times by the Big 2.5

well i guess it has:

Source: Mustafa Mohatarem, Ph.D., Chief Economist, General Motors

ok, so the japanese are giving us an interest free loan to buy their products. their society as a whole has to pay for it somehow. but, because of wealth effects and market distortion, it could be that we suffer far more than they gain.

have i ever mentioned how much i dislike governments interfering in markets?

Here's my theory:

1. We don't want the Japanese to build ANY military after WWII.

2. Japanese save load of money on military spending.

3. Japanese use those savings on R&D/direct/indirect subsidies on manufacturers.

Now our domestic manufacturers are suffering from this. And you have Senators blaming the YEN? HEY, Sherlock, did you see what the DOLLAR do lately? Of course not, you've been lobbied to, going to Wizards game and having dinners with lobbyists/executives alike.

i dunno, our r&d funding still dwarfs all other countries. our computer industry came from it, who makes cpus? we do, who has the space shuttle and moon landing, we do. but the american car companies were arrogant and slow to change, they brought it upon themselves. they could have led the way on fuel efficiency and destroyed the japanese in the 70s, but they fought all enviromental regulations and dragged their feet till they got kicked in the face. and they never learned their lesson apparently.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Amused
Protectionism always backfires.

Hell, it was protectionism that made the great depression so bad.

Yes, and we need to make Japanese protectionism backfire on them.
They are subsidizing their automakers by keeping the yen artificially cheap, we nee to at the very least defend ourselves and offset that subsidy with a tarrif.

Yes and we'd get smacked by the WTO. Only the Big three and a few scant others are decrying Japan for their currency valuation.

Toyota isnt whats killing the Big Three. The Unions in the last 30 years have whats killed the Big 3. Their healthcare is what is going to cause the Big Three to fold if something is not done.

We'd only get smacked by the WTO if we let them smack us, and that's what we have chosen to do now by allowing other countries to dictate trade terms to us and manipulate their currency to put our businesses at a disadvantage in the name of free trade. Make no mistake, the US market is the number one prize for every manufacturing country in the world, and we have a lot more power in trade than we have been willing to exercise.
Also, it's not just big 3 and few others, they are just a tip of the iceberg. We are presiding over the destruction of US manufacturing. Cheap currency is only part of the problem, but it's a big part. The others are benefit costs for US labor. Other countries not only subsidize their currency, but also their businesses healthcare costs. We, on the other hang our businesses out to dry, then wonder why manufacturing jobs are vanishing.

 

[Phokus]

Maybe the big 3 should stop complaining and start developing better/more reliable cars.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

"They're manipulating the yen and it creates big differences in what they can sell their automobiles for," said Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., who represents thousands of Detroit-based auto workers. "Most of their vehicles are still coming from Japan."

They note that 46 percent of Toyota's U.S. sales in 2006 came from vehicles imported from Japan, even as the company highlights its American work force and assembly plants in advertising

These two qoutes kill any ounce of credibility the politicos may have had on the issue.

First they say most of their vehicles are coming from Japan, but then they say the majority of Toyotas bought in the US are in fact made in the US.

The Toyota Camry is the the third most made in the USA automobile, right behind the F150 and Silverado.

Where do they actually say "The majority of Toyotas bought in the US are in fact made in the US". In this thread it has already been mentioned that they have plants in Canada, I'm sure they may have some elsewhere, the 46% statistic says imported from Japan, it does not include Canada and other possible Countries where they may export from as well.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Maybe the big 3 should stop complaining and start developing better/more reliable cars.

It would help, but it wouldn't eliminate the problem. In the long run, companies in countries that manipulate currency will be at an advantage, because it tilts the playing field in their favor, even everything else being equal.
Also, it's not just big3 problem, the rest of US manufacturing base is being dismantled as well.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Maybe the big 3 should stop complaining and start developing better/more reliable cars.

Where the hell have you been?

 

[her209]

Wait! Isn't it super expensive to visit/live Japan though, i.e., you spend more dollars for the same stuff compared to the US?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Amused
Protectionism always backfires.

Hell, it was protectionism that made the great depression so bad.

Yes, and we need to make Japanese protectionism backfire on them.
They are subsidizing their automakers by keeping the yen artificially cheap, we nee to at the very least defend ourselves and offset that subsidy with a tarrif.

No. Absolutely not.

Look up Smoot-Hawley and get back to me.

Counter-protectionism is even worse.

 

[KillerCharlie]

It seems one of the main problems is that the Yen is weak compared to the dollar. My response: TOO BAD, that's how the international economy works. The company I work for (#1 exporter of goods in the US) benefits because the dollar is weaker than the Euro.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
It seems one of the main problems is that the Yen is weak compared to the dollar. My response: TOO BAD, that's how the international economy works. The company I work for (#1 exporter of goods in the US) benefits because the dollar is weaker than the Euro.

If ECB tied the Euro to an artificially low level against the Dollar, and your company lost sales and you lost your job, you'd know how people who lost their jobs to Asian currency manipulation feel. Euro is not artificially fixed to the dollar. There is no ECB policy to maintain certain level of Euro to the dollar. Euro goes up and down depending on market forces, not so with Yen and Yuan.