Toyota Highlander passengers survive 100 mph street racing accident

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91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: vi_edit
So all things being equal, if I take the same disk brake/rotor/pad combination found in a Porche GT2 and put them in a Camry, it will have the same stopping distance of an identical Camry with the stock drum/disk brake combo?

Assuming identical tires?

Yes. The brakes won't even break a sweat, but the tires will still easily lose traction like they did before. The limiting factor is the tires' adhesion to the road, not the brakes, so beefing up the brakes won't do you a bit of good.

Having big brake kits on sports cars doesn't decrease the stopping distance at highway speeds. What it does do is give the brakes more thermal capacity and increase fade resistance. So if you're on a racetrack making hard brakes repeatedly, the better brake system won't fade as easily.

Brembo link

"At the speeds that stopping distance is generally measured from (60 to 70mph), the test is primarily testing the tire's grip on the pavement. As delivered from the manufacturer, nearly all vehicles are able to engage the ABS or lock the wheels at these speeds. Therefore, an increase in braking power will do nothing to stop the vehicle in a shorter distance."

Grassroots motorsports

"This highlights that big brakes don?t actually help your car stop in shorter distances, you install them for their increased thermal capacity. Your tires and their contact patch are actually more important for braking distances"
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: vi_edit
So all things being equal, if I take the same disk brake/rotor/pad combination found in a Porche GT2 and put them in a Camry, it will have the same stopping distance of an identical Camry with the stock drum/disk brake combo?

Assuming identical tires?

Yes. The brakes won't even break a sweat, but the tires will still easily lose traction like they did before. The limiting factor is the tires' adhesion to the road, not the brakes, so beefing up the brakes won't do you a bit of good.

Having big brake kits on sports cars doesn't decrease the stopping distance at highway speeds. What it does do is give the brakes more thermal capacity and increase fade resistance. So if you're on a racetrack making hard brakes repeatedly, the better brake system won't fade as easily.

Brembo link

"At the speeds that stopping distance is generally measured from (60 to 70mph), the test is primarily testing the tire's grip on the pavement. As delivered from the manufacturer, nearly all vehicles are able to engage the ABS or lock the wheels at these speeds. Therefore, an increase in braking power will do nothing to stop the vehicle in a shorter distance."

Grassroots motorsports

"This highlights that big brakes don?t actually help your car stop in shorter distances, you install them for their increased thermal capacity. Your tires and their contact patch are actually more important for braking distances"


:thumbsup:

Thanks.

I always assumed brake fade was a factor in "panic stops". I'll put that in my "new thing learned for the day" log book.

:)
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Originally posted by: vi_edit
So all things being equal, if I take the same disk brake/rotor/pad combination found in a Porche GT2 and put them in a Camry, it will have the same stopping distance of an identical Camry with the stock drum/disk brake combo?

Assuming identical tires?


If the tires were exactly equal between a Porche and a Camry, then the factors that would determine braking distance would be the weight of the two cars and K (air resistance). The car that weighs more would take more distance to brake due to momentum if they are going the same speed. The car with less air resistance would also take longer to brake. Between a Porche and a Camry, both of those factors are very marginal and would make barely a foot or less of distance. The brakes, once they stop the tires, won't make a difference.

Bear in mind, these are factors to braking distance.

If the brakes work. This a yes or no, because they either do or don't. If they don't obviously your braking distance is going to be insane.

Speed of the car. The faster you are going, the more braking distance you are going to need.

Mass of the car. The more mass you have at a given speed, the more momentum you are going to have and the more braking distance you need.

Adhesion to the road. If your tires are bald or made of teflon, they are going to take alot more distance to bring a car to a stop then a good set of tires.

Wind resistance. This is why funny cars use parachutes to help them brake and air planes use flaps. The less air resistance you have, the longer the distance you need to break.

Mechanical reaction time. The time in between pressing on the brakes and the brakes actually locking up the tires. The faster they stop the tires the shorter the braking distance.

Condition of the road. This goes back to adhesion. A slicker roadway is going to cause considerably longer braking distance.



And that's it. The actual brake system means very little, except the time frame the mechanical interface needs to lock up the brakes and an ABS system for slick roadways. Another factor in REAL LIFE braking situations, is the reaction time of the driver. Technically, that's not true braking distance but in real life where it matters, your reaction time affects how far you go.
 

thomsbrain

Lifer
Dec 4, 2001
18,148
1
0
Originally posted by: acemcmac
ahhahahha SUV driver suck :evil:

Bet she's wishing she had opted for a vehicle with non-jello suspension so mabye she could have avoided that....

but hey, can't have your cake and eat it too

I'm gunna get flamed for this, but she deserves it just for being an obnoxious soccer mom

this better be a skoorb post.

someone in a mustang crossed the median at 100 MPH and ran straight into them. how were they supposed to avoid that?

and they don't even say who was driving the SUV.

i don't like SUV's either, but that post was completely asinine.
 

phantom309

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2002
2,065
1
0
Originally posted by: joshsquall
Originally posted by: Toasthead
Originally posted by: joshsquall
I don't really think the other Mustang driver should be charged with murder. Definitely should go to jail for something though.

He was commiting a crime (street racing) and someone was hurt/killed during the commision of the crime....youre responsible

It's still not murder. I'd say the worst they could get him for is vehicular manslaughter. Even that is a stretch. The other guy was a Darwin award waiting to happen.
Screw him. Don't fvcking street race.

 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
1
76
Originally posted by: acemcmac
Originally posted by: labgeek
Originally posted by: acemcmac
ahhahahha SUV driver suck :evil:

Bet she's wishing she had opted for a vehicle with non-jello suspension so mabye she could have avoided that....

but hey, can't have your cake and eat it too

I'm gunna get flamed for this, but she deserves it just for being an obnoxious soccer mom

WTF are you talking about?

Those huge suv's have the steering responsivness of cruise ships and suspension made of jello to boot. Anyone who decides to operate one without taking into consideration that they won't be able to get out of the way of whatever road hazzard is ahead of them is... well... kidding themselves. I definitley believe that these guys fvcked up big time and deserve the book thrown at them, but I have a really hard time feeling sorry for this woman...

You really have proven that you have no idea.

I drive an X5, an RSX, and a Jaguar, and I'd have to say tha the X5s suspension is stiffer than the sports suspension I've put on my RSX, and the X5 probably handles better.

Don't talk unless you've driven one.

 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
1
76
Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: acemcmac
Originally posted by: cjgallen
Originally posted by: acemcmac
<<< Mustang with stiffened suspension and Z-rated tires for just that sort of hairpin turning....

Mustang for TURNING? :laugh:

I came around a blind corner last fall and found myself doing a 70mph salom between two deer... the first in my lane, and the second 20 feet up in the opposite lane. I did it successfully without hitting either of them. Anything is possible with enough practice and a solid enough understanding of your car. I doubt this woman had either.

I'm not saying that this was her fault, but I really have a hard time feeling sorry for her- I don't know the road this happened on, and I don't know the conditions, but it wouldnt surprise me at all to learn that she froze at the wheel rather than salomed around it...

You are the guy who owns the V6 Mustang, aren't you? Suddenly it all makes sense to me.

Oh yes, the pony mustang guy. Get a REAL car then we'll talk.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Originally posted by: amcdonald
This whole ridiculous conversation is MOOT, because we don't have a freakin video of the accident, so we don't know the details.

The only thing we can ascertain from this thread is that acmeacaacme is, and I quote, "A tool."

Agreed. He just keeps going too.
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
1
76
Originally posted by: CVSiN
he was drag racing big woop..
this has been going on since the dawn of time and the invention of the wheel..

hell I know even my dad was guilty of street drags in the 60s
I'sure alot of y'alls dads that were into cars prolly did this as well..

sure it breaks laws.. and can be dangerous..
but it doesnt make them an asshat.
accidents happen oh well.

Hell yes most dads are guilty of it, hell, my dad still brags to me about street racing his lambo euraco. However, things like this, going this quickly, shouldn't be done on public roads.
 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
4,836
0
0
Originally posted by: acemcmac
Originally posted by: labgeek
Originally posted by: acemcmac
ahhahahha SUV driver suck :evil:

Bet she's wishing she had opted for a vehicle with non-jello suspension so mabye she could have avoided that....

but hey, can't have your cake and eat it too

I'm gunna get flamed for this, but she deserves it just for being an obnoxious soccer mom

WTF are you talking about?

Those huge suv's have the steering responsivness of cruise ships and suspension made of jello to boot. Anyone who decides to operate one without taking into consideration that they won't be able to get out of the way of whatever road hazzard is ahead of them is... well... kidding themselves. I definitley believe that these guys fvcked up big time and deserve the book thrown at them, but I have a really hard time feeling sorry for this woman...


Another driver coming at you 100mph left of center is not considered a "road hazard". That is a "freak event". NO CAR is designed to play chicken, so your point is completely worthless.

Get out. Just go.
 

Insomniak

Banned
Sep 11, 2003
4,836
0
0
Originally posted by: acemcmac
Originally posted by: Bushwicktrini
Originally posted by: acemcmac
Originally posted by: labgeek
Originally posted by: acemcmac
ahhahahha SUV driver suck :evil:

Bet she's wishing she had opted for a vehicle with non-jello suspension so mabye she could have avoided that....

but hey, can't have your cake and eat it too

I'm gunna get flamed for this, but she deserves it just for being an obnoxious soccer mom

WTF are you talking about?



Those huge suv's have the steering responsivness of cruise ships and suspension made of jello to boot. Anyone who decides to operate one without taking into consideration that they won't be able to get out of the way of whatever road hazzard is ahead of them is... well... kidding themselves. I definitley believe that these guys fvcked up big time and deserve the book thrown at them, but I have a really hard time feeling sorry for this woman...

And a mustang flying through the air is a "Road Hazzard" that your car could avoid????

Actually.... yeah....

<<< Mustang with stiffened suspension and Z-rated tires for just that sort of hairpin turning....



LOL, you drive a Mustang and you're making fun of other people's cars? You have no room to talk.
 

dbk

Lifer
Apr 23, 2004
17,685
10
81
The only reason she survived the crash, imo, is because she was driving a Highlander. If she were in a sedan or a mustang, she probably would've died. Anyways what does it matter what car she drives. The important thing is that she survived, along with her family.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
1
0
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Optimus


4) I have taken professional riding courses specializing in collision avoidance on my motorcycle. There is almost nothing as maneuveralbe on the road as a good motorcycle, PLUS it has only about 1/5 the front impact area of a car or SUV. From my experience, there is a VERY significant chance that a skilled motorcyclist would not be able to avoid a collision on a regular street of a car coming at you the wrong way at a combined speed of 150mph+. That is, quite simply, the proverbial deadly accident.

Motorcycles are a bit different than cars. While motorcycles are maneuverable when you are anticipating the maneuver, you cannot make quick reactions on a motorcycle like you can in a car. On a motorcycle, you need to anticipate the turn and lean your body for balance.

You can't just abruptly turn the handlebars and expect the bike to steer, you'd fall off. You need to lean in advance. In a car you can just turn the wheel quickly without needing to balance.

Originally posted by: Optimus

1) Not everyone has great reflexes - its an inborn thing. The fact that her SUV was hit dead center head on means she did not have time to react at all. No matter what she was driving, she physically as a human being did not have time to react. Therefore she WAS better off in a stronger vehicle for the impact.

The possibility also exists that she was talking to her friends in the car and wasn't even paying attention. She could have had time to react, had she been paying attention, we just don't know if she was or not.


LOL you obviously have never ridden a bike...
and if you have you never made it past the newbie stage..
I dont need time to prep for a corner and I dont have to anticipate it... nor do i have to lean.... or fall off....


and I dont need to be in any special position to grab a handful of brakes....
please... stick with driving cars there pal..


bikes are 6x as agile as any car especially in panic situations as long as the rider is trained..
yes any moron can drive a car.. not everyone can ride a bike.. and not everyone riding bikes belong on those bikes...


 

dafatha00

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
3,871
0
76
Originally posted by: codeyf
Dude must've been granny shiftin', not double-clutchin like he should be ;)

It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning.
 

Demo24

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
8,356
9
81
Originally posted by: acemcmac
Originally posted by: labgeek
Originally posted by: acemcmac
ahhahahha SUV driver suck :evil:

Bet she's wishing she had opted for a vehicle with non-jello suspension so mabye she could have avoided that....

but hey, can't have your cake and eat it too

I'm gunna get flamed for this, but she deserves it just for being an obnoxious soccer mom

WTF are you talking about?

Those huge suv's have the steering responsivness of cruise ships and suspension made of jello to boot. Anyone who decides to operate one without taking into consideration that they won't be able to get out of the way of whatever road hazzard is ahead of them is... well... kidding themselves. I definitley believe that these guys fvcked up big time and deserve the book thrown at them, but I have a really hard time feeling sorry for this woman...



Iv driven a Highlander and you dont know what your talking about. For an SUV its not bad in cornering

Id like to see you try to get outta the way of something coming at you at 100mph while your traveling at 40ish at the sametime. Thats right your gonna get smashed to, nice knowing ya
 
May 10, 2005
142
0
0
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: labgeek


Uh no.

Uh (mouthbreather), yes.

Do you wish to challenge me in a discussion about cars? If you're stupid enough to say something like that, then speak up. I'll shoot you down with ease.

You may be right, but you're still a tool. Anyone who says "I'll shoot you down with ease" should be, at the very least, clubbed. The fact that you are using it to show how much your car knowledge rules makes it that much worse.

You double posted too; I guess your knowledge ends in the garage.


EDIT:

Originally posted by: dafatha00
Originally posted by: codeyf
Dude must've been granny shiftin', not double-clutchin like he should be ;)

It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning's winning.

I live my life a quarter mile at a time. Nothing else matters: not the mortgage, not the store, not my team and all their bullsh1t. For those ten seconds or less, I'm free.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
0
Originally posted by: Jzero
Originally posted by: acemcmac
Originally posted by: cjgallen
Originally posted by: acemcmac
<<< Mustang with stiffened suspension and Z-rated tires for just that sort of hairpin turning....

Mustang for TURNING? :laugh:

I came around a blind corner last fall and found myself doing a 70mph salom between two deer... the first in my lane, and the second 20 feet up in the opposite lane. I did it successfully without hitting either of them....

70MPH....130MPH....almost twice as fast. Your overconfidence makes you a bad driver. And you're full of crap.

Plus the fact that he was doing 70MPH around a blind corner.
 

sparkyclarky

Platinum Member
May 3, 2002
2,389
0
0
Originally posted by: jumpr
Originally posted by: acemcmac
Originally posted by: cjgallen
Originally posted by: acemcmac
<<< Mustang with stiffened suspension and Z-rated tires for just that sort of hairpin turning....

Mustang for TURNING? :laugh:

I came around a blind corner last fall and found myself doing a 70mph salom between two deer... the first in my lane, and the second 20 feet up in the opposite lane. I did it successfully without hitting either of them. Anything is possible with enough practice and a solid enough understanding of your car. I doubt this woman had either.

I'm not saying that this was her fault, but I really have a hard time feeling sorry for her- I don't know the road this happened on, and I don't know the conditions, but it wouldnt surprise me at all to learn that she froze at the wheel rather than salomed around it...
SHENS. If someone was there to witness it I will take your word for it and rescind my judgement, but I contend that a Mustang is too big of a sh!tbox to handle something like that.

:roll:

edit:
deleted after reading the rest of the thread and seeing he got hammered enough
 

feelingshorter

Platinum Member
May 5, 2004
2,439
0
71
Originally posted by: conjur
The brutal impact sent the Mustang careening into a light pole just before 8 p.m. Tuesday in the Rockaways, killing the driver, Carlos Feria, 22, of Queens, police said.
One dead asshat.

Too bad the other fvcktard didn't die, too.

now he could be in prison for 15 years, wasting our tax money on idiots