Toyota forcasts $8.6Billion Loss

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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,743
6,318
126
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: sandorski


They spent money, sure. It still pales compared to the Economic Downturn. How many times do I have to say it?? Look at the Industry, everyone is hurting bad.

Nobody is denying that everyone else is hurting as well, but the amount of money that Toyota is losing is Big 3 numbers. Why isn't anyone else posting ~$8billion losses? Just admit it, they made some bad moves too. It's ok, so they're not the perfect company, big whoop.

I did admit it. It's just not the biggest part of their problem. Far from it.

Thank you :beer:

And yes you're right, it really isnt' the biggest part. Just like GM/Ford, they were both in the middle of restructuring when the economy took a shit.

No, it's nothing like GM/Ford/Chrysler. The Big 3 were hit too, but they've been hurting for years now, unlike Toyota which was just seeing Record Profits last fiscal year.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: sandorski


No, it's nothing like GM/Ford/Chrysler. The Big 3 were hit too, but they've been hurting for years now, unlike Toyota which was just seeing Record Profits last fiscal year.

They're about to run out of money. It's pretty dire. All of the profits from north america were used to fund capital projects to build trucks/suvs/motors for them, etc.

That capital investments are still on the book and giving no return at all.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,922
3,901
136
Originally posted by: senseamp
Toyota's problem is they are not moving forward. There is very little compelling reason to buy a new boring Toyota over a used boring Toyota that you already have. Look at Camry and Corolla, almost zero progress since 1989, that's 20 years. Sure people may refresh their garage when times are good, but in these times if you have a car that is running fine, something really has to be appealing to get you to spend the money, and Toyota doesn't have any appealing products that make you say I gotta have this, aside maybe FJ Cruiser for off road enthusiasts, but that's a fairly niche product.

I like my 08 Tundra, and you see new Tacomas EVERYWHERE around here.
 

Pneumothorax

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2002
1,181
23
81
I'd dump my Tacoma ASAP if I wouldn't take such a huge bloodbath on resale. My buddies 09 chevy silverado get the same gas mileage as my so called "compact truck" A full size truck with hardly working V8 will get close mpg to a compact pickup with a thirsty V6
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: sandorski


No, it's nothing like GM/Ford/Chrysler. The Big 3 were hit too, but they've been hurting for years now, unlike Toyota which was just seeing Record Profits last fiscal year.

They're about to run out of money. It's pretty dire. All of the profits from north america were used to fund capital projects to build trucks/suvs/motors for them, etc.

That capital investments are still on the book and giving no return at all.

OMG Toyota is about to fail, not.

Text

Like a Hollywood starlet caught drunk behind the wheel, Toyota's first operating loss looks somehow worse than if it came from a regular car-maker.

For the Japanese producer, the global recession and sharply rising yen ended a record of 70 consecutive years of profitable operations. And with more of a crash than a skid. The company burned through $6.9 billion in the fourth quarter of the year to leave a $4.5 billion full-year loss. Toyota sees worse in store: a 20% slide in revenues in 2010 leading to an $8.5 billion loss.
Still, Toyota is in much better shape than General Motors, which lost $6 billion in the last quarter, and also saw sales cut in two. The Japanese automaker has a full tank of cash. And despite the losses, it added $8 billion to its coffers over the year, ending with $30 billion of cash and quickly-sellable assets on its balance sheet.

Toyota needs to get used to a harsher world. A steadily high yen, global overcapacity and a shrinking Japanese market, where Toyota still gets a quarter of its sales, may force Toyota to break with another tradition - that of never having closed down a plant.
Toyota has lost its way, but its cash, technology and manufacturing expertise should see it through the crisis. Indeed, if the company can respond with its traditional fervor, it may find its global position is stronger than before. Japan's biggest car-maker is leaking red ink, but not the toxic kind that bathes the streets of Detroit
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
i have never said they will fail, someone may have, but they are bleeding more money than the Big 3 because of their recent investments in SUV's but they too have seen 35% sales declines, perhaps their margins are slightly lower, but i doubt that... Not to mention Toyota City is described as the Detroit of Japan with amazingly bad unemployment. They do have the money stashed, and that makes them safe, unless all hell broke lose, but it wont, with FIAT you see them loading up on a mass of valuable dealership networks with brand names. It could vault them way up, but they i believe have some iffy quality. That will make me question how they could fix that and get it mandated in 2 years and get reliability up to american market vehicles. We are in for a crazy new landscape though in 2 years.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: dainthomas
Originally posted by: senseamp
Toyota's problem is they are not moving forward. There is very little compelling reason to buy a new boring Toyota over a used boring Toyota that you already have. Look at Camry and Corolla, almost zero progress since 1989, that's 20 years. Sure people may refresh their garage when times are good, but in these times if you have a car that is running fine, something really has to be appealing to get you to spend the money, and Toyota doesn't have any appealing products that make you say I gotta have this, aside maybe FJ Cruiser for off road enthusiasts, but that's a fairly niche product.

I like my 08 Tundra, and you see new Tacomas EVERYWHERE around here.

Then why are they losing $8.6 Billion? Obviously where you are at is not representative of their overall situation.
 

postmortemIA

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2006
7,721
40
91
Originally posted by: senseamp
Toyota's problem is they are not moving forward. There is very little compelling reason to buy a new boring Toyota over a used boring Toyota that you already have. Look at Camry and Corolla, almost zero progress since 1989, that's 20 years. Sure people may refresh their garage when times are good, but in these times if you have a car that is running fine, something really has to be appealing to get you to spend the money, and Toyota doesn't have any appealing products that make you say I gotta have this, aside maybe FJ Cruiser for off road enthusiasts, but that's a fairly niche product.

zero progress? new camry is sporty, it has about 270HP and per some car magazines, it can to 1/4th mile in high 14s, yet it manages 29mpg on highway. it is truth that car has improved every possible way, but so did the competition.

problem of every car manufacturer is that they are not able to profit if sales go down 30%.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: sandorski
Mostly just Market in general. Their choice of Vehicles have very little to do with it.

Umm, have you been paying attention to Toyota's capital investments over the last 5 years? They have all been for truck/suv plants and motors. The last two assembly plants they built were for a truck and an SUV.

toyota made terrible long term decisions, just like gm or chrysler. The only difference is that gm and ford had been improving their car-lineups the last few years, toyota jumped off into the suv deep end just the market imploded.

Originally posted by: senseamp
Toyota's problem is they are not moving forward. There is very little compelling reason to buy a new boring Toyota over a used boring Toyota that you already have. Look at Camry and Corolla, almost zero progress since 1989, that's 20 years. Sure people may refresh their garage when times are good, but in these times if you have a car that is running fine, something really has to be appealing to get you to spend the money, and Toyota doesn't have any appealing products that make you say I gotta have this, aside maybe FJ Cruiser for off road enthusiasts, but that's a fairly niche product.

my uncle still has a 1993 toyota, the new models don't look any better. They have the most boring cars out there, and aren't of any better quality that ford, gm, or honda, which all make much more interesting cars of comparable quality.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Toyota still pays too much for workers here compared to wages in Asia. If they were allowed to pay minimum wage or less, they wouldn't be bleeding money.
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Mostly just Market in general. Their choice of Vehicles have very little to do with it.

nope, not at all.

it was a strategic decision to build as much capacity as they did. they could have stayed a medium player before and had appropriate capacity, but decided not to. pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. toyota is a hog.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Hacp
Toyota still pays too much for workers here compared to wages in Asia. If they were allowed to pay minimum wage or less, they wouldn't be bleeding money.

they are allowed to pay minimum wage, they just won't have many employees
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,743
6,318
126
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Mostly just Market in general. Their choice of Vehicles have very little to do with it.

nope, not at all.

it was a strategic decision to build as much capacity as they did. they could have stayed a medium player before and had appropriate capacity, but decided not to. pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. toyota is a hog.

Incorrect
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Mostly just Market in general. Their choice of Vehicles have very little to do with it.

nope, not at all.

it was a strategic decision to build as much capacity as they did. they could have stayed a medium player before and had appropriate capacity, but decided not to. pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. toyota is a hog.

Incorrect

it is correct
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,743
6,318
126
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Mostly just Market in general. Their choice of Vehicles have very little to do with it.

nope, not at all.

it was a strategic decision to build as much capacity as they did. they could have stayed a medium player before and had appropriate capacity, but decided not to. pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. toyota is a hog.

Incorrect

it is correct

It's the Economy. Read the damned article(s).
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Mostly just Market in general. Their choice of Vehicles have very little to do with it.

nope, not at all.

it was a strategic decision to build as much capacity as they did. they could have stayed a medium player before and had appropriate capacity, but decided not to. pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. toyota is a hog.

Incorrect

it is correct

It's the Economy. Read the damned article(s).

The job of a firm strategy is to address the issues of the exterior environment. Toyota incorrectly did that. End of story.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,743
6,318
126
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Mostly just Market in general. Their choice of Vehicles have very little to do with it.

nope, not at all.

it was a strategic decision to build as much capacity as they did. they could have stayed a medium player before and had appropriate capacity, but decided not to. pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. toyota is a hog.

Incorrect

it is correct

It's the Economy. Read the damned article(s).

The job of a firm strategy is to address the issues of the exterior environment. Toyota incorrectly did that. End of story.

Fail
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Cattlegod

The job of a firm strategy is to address the issues of the exterior environment. Toyota incorrectly did that. End of story.

Yep. So they started to build a large SUV plant in mississippi. Then gas went up so they changed it to prius. Nobody wants a prius now so the plant is just an empty shell rotting away money with no production.
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: sandorski
Mostly just Market in general. Their choice of Vehicles have very little to do with it.

nope, not at all.

it was a strategic decision to build as much capacity as they did. they could have stayed a medium player before and had appropriate capacity, but decided not to. pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. toyota is a hog.

Incorrect

it is correct

It's the Economy. Read the damned article(s).

The job of a firm strategy is to address the issues of the exterior environment. Toyota incorrectly did that. End of story.

Fail

Then you propose that the job of the firm's strategy is not to address the exterior environment? That is the most inane thing I've ever heard.