Totally new build - 670 vs. 680 vs. 7970 (which one?)

[Danadcorps]

Hey, I was wondering if you guys could help me out with a new build for my friend. He is currently having bad fps problems with some of his games (he has a 4800 series GPU, Asus Rampage mobo, a Q9650, and 4GB of DDR2 Ram) - mainly WoW after their latest update. I told him that I don't think a 4800 series video card should be having those problems and that I would try to diagnose the problem, but he insists on just getting a completely new decently high-end system. His main goal is to have it hold up to the rigors of future games (once again, probably main WoW, the new MMORPG of the time, and Borderlands 2). He doesn't know much about computers, but he has completely refused some of the other builds I put together that had cheaper components (I told him they mid to lower mid tier stuff...which they were) even though I told him that buy more expensive components wont necessarily mean that the system will last years longer (he is okay with it lasting a few months longer). And so, on with the template:

System Specifications:

I. Processor/CPU:

i7 3770k Ivy @ 3.5


II. Current Graphics Card:

he has a 4800 series as I've previously stated.


III. Display Resolution:

Once again, he has refused my advice to get a better monitor since, with the new gpu selection, gaming at his current resolution would be severe overkill. He has a Samsung SyncMaster 22" that displays at less than 1080p - i think it was 1600 x 1050.


IV. Power Supply Unit Specification (Brand, Wattage, Ampage, Age). If possible, please provide a link to a website containing the power supply specifications:

Seasonic 1000W Platinum Power Supply


V. Case Specifications(N/A, Model, Length, Low Profile, Cooling, HTPC, Water, Silent):

Using the old case that my brother got for him - CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000 . However, if any of the products might not fit well, let me know since he is not averse to purchasing a brand new case!



Purchase Details:

I. Budget? Please be sure to include currency (If not USD), retailer preferences & specify whether rebates are a viable option.

He doesn't have a budget, but I don't want to screw him over (he is my friend) with getting him a $1200 690 or something like that. I'd prefer to give him good bang for the buck while still future-proofing his gaming rig. So I'd say $300 - $650.



II. Any particular preferences (Manufacturer[nV or AMD], Brand[XFX, Sapphire, EVGA, etc], Cooling Solutions)?

This is where I was hoping for your help. From what I've read (and it seems like there is no end to the discussion of AMD vs. Nvidia), I think that for GeForce it comes down to MSI vs. EVGA. However, I am open to AMD suggestions as well, but I think that without OC'ing, that GeForce is better performance and efficiency-wise out of the box.



III. Do you plan to have any Multi-GPU solutions such as Crossfire or SLI?

One of the reasons for choosing the board was to let him crossfire later on with dual x16. I think that by the time he would need x3 or x4, he would want a new system anyway so thats why I didn't go with any of those boards (like the Rampage IV Extreme)


IV. Have you previously looked at a product(s) which you feel would fit your needs?

I think that a 670 or a 680 would fulfill his needs quite well. However, I have heard that the new drivers for the 7970 (IIRC) make it perform very well. Currently I am looking at the following:

For the 680's:
MSI N680GTX Twin Frozr 2GD5/OC 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16
EVGA Superclocked, Signature 2 02G-P4-2687-KR GeForce GTX 680 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16
EVGA 04G-P4-3685-KR GeForce GTX 680 FTW Standard, w/Backplate 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16
MSI N680GTX Lightning GeForce GTX 680 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16
MSI N680GTX Twin Frozr 4GD5/OC GeForce GTX 680 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16


For the 670's:
GIGABYTE GV-N670OC-2GD GeForce GTX 670 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16
MSI N670 PE 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 670 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16
EVGA 04G-P4-2673-KR GeForce GTX 670 Superclocked+ w/Backplate 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16
EVGA 04G-P4-3673-KR GeForce GTX 670 FTW+ 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16

And throw in a 7970:
MSI R7970 Lightning Radeon HD 7970 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16


V. What are your needs for this GPU? Which games(If any)do you intend to play? If you have this information at hand, what are the desired detail levels?

As I've said before, mostly MMORPG's of the time (+ WoW...he Loves that game) and Borderlands 2. He might become a bit more of a PC gamer though, as most of us don't have time to play console games anymore, so he will probably play other games with his WoW buddies or his new Steam buddies.


VI. Do you plan on overclocking the card you intend to purchase?

He will not be OC'ing. He doesn't know how. However, that is not to say that he wont complain about the card in a few years/months and I'll try to OC it for him (I've never OC'ed before, but I doubt it'll be hard once I do enough research).

My main question is, do you think he needs a 670 or a 680 (which do you think should last longer and do you think the price differential is worth it? Btw, he wants this built NOW since it is impossible for him to play WoW with his frame rates so please don't suggest waiting...he absolutely will NOT wait). Whichever your choice is, please suggest one of the manufacturers I've listed above or a different card (with a justification, please). I've heard that the MSI TwinFrozer's are very very cool and this will aide in it's longevity. I've also heard that MSI has a great warranty while EVGA has great support (but only recently started offering a 3 year warranty or so IIRC). If I get a non-MSI TwinFrozr, do I need to purchase an aftermarket cooling system? If so, can you recommend a good one?

As for the Ram - Corsair Vengence 16gb (4x4gb) @ 1600.

As for cooling of his CPU (to promote longevity) - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler along with Scythe SY1225SL12L 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fan

I got that for the cooling since I saw complaints about the Thermaltake Frio and fitment with "taller" RAM and with its noise level. If you guys know of a better cooler, please let me know.

Thanks for reading this behemoth of a post and for any and all advice that you give.

 

[chimaxi83]

A $300-650 budget is massive overkill for his monitor. If he plans to stick with the one he has, tell him to grab a GTX 660 Ti with a free copy of Borderlands 2. He won't be overclocking, and the new line of Nvidia cards do it automatically. If he plans to upgrade his monitor, depending on how large, a GTX 670 would be a better choice. I'd personally go for the MSI Power Edition 670.

 

[Danadcorps]

Yeah, I told him that his monitor wasn't a very good one and I've suggested others (mainly the 27" 2560 x 1440's since I want to see one in action ), but I've also asked if he wanted a dual/trip setup and he said no. I think I can get him to upgrade his monitor once I explain more about how his monitor will be a limiting factor.

 

[chimaxi83]

A 670 with a free copy of Borderlands 2 would be a better choice then. The difference between that and a 680 isn't much, especially with the higher clocked models. Depending on the game though, 1440/1600p would be a bit too taxing on a single card.

Its really just dependent on the games he's playing, and the resolution he's playing at. Kepler has auto overclocking, slightly lower power usage and better efficiency, and PhysX. Tahiti has better overall performance in games, and unbeatable prices. You mentioned Borderlands 2, and a free copy with an Nvidia card would push me in that direction.

 

[RussianSensation]

Asus DirectCUII 670 for the quietest noise levels
MSI Power Edition 670 for good overclocking
Gigabyte Windforce 3x for a good balance of noise levels and overclocking.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-670-test-review,3217-14.html

I wouldn't buy any EVGA 670 - no overclocking advantage, louder fans than the above options, no premium components, no free lifetime warranty.

If your friend won't upgrade the monitor and mainly plays MMOs and BL2, then GTX660Ti is good enough.

 

[blastingcap]

I would second RS's suggestion except avoid Gigabyte, I hear too many reliability-related negative things about those. Even though I'm using one in my HTPC so I guess I'm a hypocrite, lol. But that card only cost me like $10 so I took the risk.

 

[RussianSensation]

haha how did you get a GTX670 Gigabyte for $10?

 

[blastingcap]

haha how did you get a GTX670 Gigabyte for $10?

6450... was talking about gigabyte video cards

 

[Danadcorps]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I went with the MSI 670 PE for ~$400. I have also successfully convinced him to get a new monitor so I'll try to take him up to the nearest Microcenter (1 hour away) so he can take a look at some of their 27" IPS monitors. The warranty should allay any fears he might have about purchasing monitors from a manufacturer he's never heard of (and I won't tell him about the A+ panels otherwise he'll most likely object to the ones at MC).

His setup should be pretty damn beastly (I'm looking forward to building it and seeing how it performs!).

 

[BD231]

Stay far far away from the 660Ti, it's a piece of ****.

Please try to post constructively (don't troll) and avoid posting profanity in the technical forums, even if not fully typed out.

Thanks, Moderator Shmee

 

[Tempered81]

EVGA Superclocked 680

or

Sapphire 7970 OC Dual-X

 

[sze5003]

I've heard good things about Evga customer service. Oh just a heads up try and get a good card with better materials as I have coil whine and am going through crap trying to diagnose and prove it to newegg before my warranty runs out.

 

[Silverforce11]

If you're going to high res with a 27 IPS screen, definitely look for a good custom 7970 or 680. The cards below without overclocking just lacks grunt at high res.

 

[cmdrdredd]

A single 670 is ok for 1440p but beyond that I would think about dual gpu. As far as my opinion, I am not content with a single gpu of any kind at 1440p. Gotta have sli or crossfire. Not that single cards are not playable because they are. I just have a standard that single cards cannot hit.

 

[Danadcorps]

Should I get two of the MSI 670 PE? Right now he will be running his 22" Samsung Syncmaster. Should he be able to run WoW with the 27" perfectly fine (that is his main concern). If he starts playing more demanding games, I will advise him to purchase another card (glad I got the Gigabyte with its dual channels both at x16).

 

[Arkaign]

WoW is a CPU hog, not so much on the GPU side of things. So yes, a single 670 will run WoW like butter.

At these price points, I really thing the 7970GE+ 3GB is the way to go. Will open the door to great 2560x1440/1600 gaming down the line.

 

[jacktesterson]

7970

 

[biostud]

1000W PSU is way overkill get something around 600W.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Should I get two of the MSI 670 PE? Right now he will be running his 22" Samsung Syncmaster. Should he be able to run WoW with the 27" perfectly fine (that is his main concern). If he starts playing more demanding games, I will advise him to purchase another card (glad I got the Gigabyte with its dual channels both at x16).

A single card is good for now. Later on you could always hook up on a deal somewhere and go SLI or crossfire. It's not necessary to dive into that until he has used a single card and makes the decision that it's not good enough. It may be just fine to him. Borderlands 2 comes free with a GTX 670 so if he is interested in that game(you mentioned it in the OP) then it's worth it there, plus it uses Physx which you can only do with Nvidia hardware. If not, you might be able to sell the code online and recoup $50. A 7970 isn't a bad buy at current prices though.

 

[exar333]

7950...

 

[blackened23]

I look forward to the day when people look to upgrade their displays first, and GPUs second. I seriously cringe at GTX 670s/680s on 22-23" screens, ugh. Complete overkill. Perhaps 4k displays can bring about this shift in purchasing strategy.

Seriously, I really think people underestimate the effect that the quality of display(s) has on gaming immersiveness. Going from a 23" TN panel to a 30" display 2560x1600 is a night and day difference...... To me, it is the primary consideration with the GPU being a close second.

 

[notty22]

People might be missing out on some display measurement/resolution, but there are higher end/quality 1080p monitors that display a quality, picture with excellent color reproduction, viewing. Spending more does not exactly/always equate to better.
It's a given it takes more GPU horsepower to power higher resolutions than 1080p, that does not make 1080p, a poor quality choice.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I look forward to the day when people look to upgrade their displays first, and GPUs second. I seriously cringe at GTX 670s/680s on 22-23" screens, ugh. Complete overkill. Perhaps 4k displays can bring about this shift in purchasing strategy.

Seriously, I really think people underestimate the effect that the quality of display(s) has on gaming immersiveness. Going from a 23" TN panel to a 30" display 2560x1600 is a night and day difference...... To me, it is the primary consideration with the GPU being a close second.

It's actually not complete overkill if you are on a 120hz monitor because you are trying to maintain 120fps across all your games. I know in BF3 if I drop even to 70fps it chugs on my 120hz display.

 

[Danadcorps]

Already got the 670 PE (as I said before he was very impatient and wanted everything ordered almost immediately).

He also wanted me to get a case, so I was thinking about the Rosewill Thor v2. It got pretty damn good reviews here on anandtech and is decently cheap. What do you guys think?

Right now I am only worried about the fitment of the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 + Scythe fan and the RAM (it should be fine in the case, but I don't know if it is too wide for the RAM or not).

<sigh> Sadly, the people he plays games with on WoW have convinced him that a 27" screen is "too big" and that "he wont be able to see the entire screen." Also sadly, he is easily swayed by these people even though I have proved multiple times that they are a horrible source of information. However, I cannot fully refute what they say since I don't play WoW at all (actually, ever since I've started working out, I haven't played any video games at all), nor do I have a 27" screen, although I want one very badly. Not only that, but the local Microcenter is, and has been for a while, out of stock of their Auria displays.

Do any of you guys have some insight on the playability of games on these screens? From all the reviews that I have read (and I've read quite a lot in the past month or two) about these Korean monitors, I haven't heard one complaint about the screen being "too large" to play on. If anything, many have complimented the screen saying, as blackened23 has just said, that it was a "night and day" difference.

For anyone that has played WoW on this display, are the docked buttons and text too small to read? Keep in mind that he will be sitting approximately 2 feet away from the screen. Do his friends actually have some credibility to what they say, or are they spouting complete and utter nonsense?

In any case, IF I cannot change his mind with your (hopefully) helpful reviews, what is the best 24" screen to get? How is the Dell Ultrasharp (1920 x 1200) 24" monitor?

 

[chimaxi83]

Nah, the only cards that are close to overkill for 1080/1200p right now, are 690/7970x2.