As reported here, the official who voted against the manual recount has not specified his party affiliation and is planning on challenging the decision.
Well, hell, let's just order a hand recount of every election around the country -- concentrating on those areas that voted for Gore, obviously.
Well, hell, let's just order a hand recount of every election around the country -- concentrating on those areas that voted for Gore, obviously.
I have a couple of problems with this manual recounts, or even any handling of the ballots other than to feed them into the machine.
1. Punch ballots can be changed by simply punching out the "chad". The "judge" could do this either by accident or with willfull intent. The ballot could just as easily be invalidated by punching a second chaad as it could be punching the first chad in an unvoted (for pres) ballot. My concern here that under the revised guidlines for determining what is a vote anything more than a "bulge" is counted as a vote. "oh look that chad is loose, (fingernail pointing to and clipping to one of the 4 threads) I guess that one counts."
2. The judges KNOW what chaad represents what vote. This is HUGE! Now they not only have the opportunity to manipulate the baallot, they also know HOW to manipulate and Where to manipulate it.
3. The "judge" is a partisan, in this case a DEM. But what party doesnt matter, maybe the Swiss could lend a hand here.
If we were really interested in fair counts, we would have:
1. Non-partisan judges.
2. Judges with no knowledge of what "chads" mark what vote.
3. Judges that only touch the ballots on the edges, you can clearly see on the news that the judges are touching the faces of the ballots and "could" alter the ballot.
Now after all that said, as a Rep (rapidly turning Indy), I say that if the count favors Gore, and the absentee ballots are not to offset the count, and if the Federal suit fails, Bush should concede and the country should begin healing itself and prepare for the horrible negative campaign that will erupt in just two years.
PS. I watched the canvassing board vote live last night, I think I should comment on some things.
One member was obviously a biased heavily Dem. She was forcing her will on the other two. One member that voted to not go for the full recount did so with a staatement that the board seek legal clarification on the issue first. That was after a Florida legal rep countered the biased member about the legality of her assertions, pretty much saying that her reasons for the full recount were justified under the statute quoted by the biased board member. The third member seemed very meek and had a very shallow opinion.
The biased board member had trouble reading the statute she had with her, obviously straining through her bi-focals. I hope she was not the one looking at the ballots, but I suspect that she was.
1. Punch ballots can be changed by simply punching out the "chad". The "judge" could do this either by accident or with willfull intent. The ballot could just as easily be invalidated by punching a second chaad as it could be punching the first chad in an unvoted (for pres) ballot. My concern here that under the revised guidlines for determining what is a vote anything more than a "bulge" is counted as a vote. "oh look that chad is loose, (fingernail pointing to and clipping to one of the 4 threads) I guess that one counts."
2. The judges KNOW what chaad represents what vote. This is HUGE! Now they not only have the opportunity to manipulate the baallot, they also know HOW to manipulate and Where to manipulate it.
3. The "judge" is a partisan, in this case a DEM. But what party doesnt matter, maybe the Swiss could lend a hand here.
If we were really interested in fair counts, we would have:
1. Non-partisan judges.
2. Judges with no knowledge of what "chads" mark what vote.
3. Judges that only touch the ballots on the edges, you can clearly see on the news that the judges are touching the faces of the ballots and "could" alter the ballot.
Now after all that said, as a Rep (rapidly turning Indy), I say that if the count favors Gore, and the absentee ballots are not to offset the count, and if the Federal suit fails, Bush should concede and the country should begin healing itself and prepare for the horrible negative campaign that will erupt in just two years.
PS. I watched the canvassing board vote live last night, I think I should comment on some things.
One member was obviously a biased heavily Dem. She was forcing her will on the other two. One member that voted to not go for the full recount did so with a staatement that the board seek legal clarification on the issue first. That was after a Florida legal rep countered the biased member about the legality of her assertions, pretty much saying that her reasons for the full recount were justified under the statute quoted by the biased board member. The third member seemed very meek and had a very shallow opinion.
The biased board member had trouble reading the statute she had with her, obviously straining through her bi-focals. I hope she was not the one looking at the ballots, but I suspect that she was.
<< 3. The "judge" is a partisan, in this case a DEM. But what party doesnt matter, maybe the Swiss could lend a hand here.
>>I thought there were Democrats and Republicans particpating in all of the recounts....
<< Well, hell, let's just order a hand recount of every election around the country -- concentrating on those areas that voted for Gore, obviously. >>
Florida is so close I wouldn't have opposed the whole state being recounted. But, according to CNN, the legal time limit to request a recount has passed for most of Florida's counties. Anyone can ask for a manual recount....but just a few counties in Florida have been requested so far.
No ride525. The county election review boards are determined by state law.
a county comissioner >> The vocal democrat woman
the elected elections official >> the meek woman
a state judge >> The man
There are democrat & republican OBSERVERS
a county comissioner >> The vocal democrat woman
the elected elections official >> the meek woman
a state judge >> The man
There are democrat & republican OBSERVERS
cxim, you seem to live there, but from watching that garbage last night, i was under the impression that
a county comissioner >> the man The vocal democrat woman
the elected elections official >> the vocal democrat woman
a state judge >> meek woman
a county comissioner >> the man The vocal democrat woman
the elected elections official >> the vocal democrat woman
a state judge >> meek woman
just wasting time... I come & go... Watching about 6 local stations with this crap..
Pretty sure the vote canvassing Boards all have the same makeup of 3 officials. The state selects the judge. The county commission selects one of its members & the other is automatic.
The meek woman is the one who did the layout for the 'butterfly' ballot. Therese LePore
meek one
I believe the Guy is Howard Berman, Circuit Court Judge
Vocal one ??? Carol Roberts ??
county commissioners
I am bad on names so I could be off.
Pretty sure the vote canvassing Boards all have the same makeup of 3 officials. The state selects the judge. The county commission selects one of its members & the other is automatic.
The meek woman is the one who did the layout for the 'butterfly' ballot. Therese LePore
meek one
I believe the Guy is Howard Berman, Circuit Court Judge
Vocal one ??? Carol Roberts ??
county commissioners
I am bad on names so I could be off.
That's exactly what I meant when I said there were Democrats and Republicans particpating....They were there to observe to make sure this manual recount of votes is done fairly.
Manual recounting introduces errors. Mechanized methods exist to reduce or eliminate human mistakes. Since the election is so close in FL, more recounts simply give Gore more spins of the wheel. How many spins are enough, Al?
Best of three recounts, winner takes all.
Best of three recounts, winner takes all.
Shuxclams
Diamond Member
- Oct 10, 1999
- 9,286
- 15
- 81
Speaking of spinning, the election is not ove until all the counties are official and certified. So the 1st count is done which caused the legal re-count which is not complete. The hand counts is part of the 2nd (not completed) count as long as that request was made within a certian time frame, which was done. The request can be made for a state wide hand count or by county, it is then up to each canvassing board to decide whether the hand count should be granted, it all reeks of good old fashion democracy in action, if you have a problem with that then you have no clue as to how the american goverment is set up to work. Each County Canvassing Board has sole discrection as to whether or not it is warranted, as you saw listnight it came down to a vote, 2-1 in favor of a hand count. That was the final vote by the commitee on a County level. Now if Bush actually finds a Judge who is willing to go against the states rights and unsurp the constitution he will be able to block/over ride the Canvassing Boards vote and stop the election process, basically that goes against every principal that he ran his platform on......:Q What a joke.
SHUX
SHUX
If some of you trust machines so much, why do you guys vote for a machine as the president. I am sure it will make a lot less errors than GW.
Actually the hand recount will be the 4th recount in Palm Beach, three by machine 1 by hand. All going to be totally different, all totally inaccurate.
Shux,
What do you expect? A manual recount will induce errors. Human counting is not perfect, you'll end up with a different outcome each time. All differences fall within a statistical error margin. Might as well flip a frickin' coin, eh? Point is, how long should this be allowed to drag on?
What do you expect? A manual recount will induce errors. Human counting is not perfect, you'll end up with a different outcome each time. All differences fall within a statistical error margin. Might as well flip a frickin' coin, eh? Point is, how long should this be allowed to drag on?
Jelly, I don't think that there will be any human error considering that each person counting is flanked by both a republican and a democrat representative.
Also, it can "drag on" until November 17.
Also, it can "drag on" until November 17.
<< each person counting is flanked by both a republican and a democrat >>
zippy,
Who will ensure each "iffy" ballot goes to either Shrub or Bore in an effort to "find" more votes. That will slow down an inherently slow process to begin with...we'll see if your Nov. 17th deadline is reached. BTW, if it isn't, do they return to the result of the first, automatically triggered recount? Or do they go with whatever has already been tallied? Ugh.
zippy,
Who will ensure each "iffy" ballot goes to either Shrub or Bore in an effort to "find" more votes. That will slow down an inherently slow process to begin with...we'll see if your Nov. 17th deadline is reached. BTW, if it isn't, do they return to the result of the first, automatically triggered recount? Or do they go with whatever has already been tallied? Ugh.
You thought that it could not get any worst.
See this link
and then you really know your in trouble or why your in trouble when
The Palm Beach Post
LMAO this made my day
See this link
and then you really know your in trouble or why your in trouble when
The Palm Beach Post
LMAO this made my day
Michael
Elite member
- Nov 19, 1999
- 5,435
- 234
- 106
Shux - every county does not have to be complete. If they do not hit the Tuesday the 14th at 5 PM deadline, their results will not be counted. Florida will go ahead will all the counties that have been certified.
Michael
Link to thread on election laws
Michael
Link to thread on election laws
<< Ok just get it over with people GORE LOST!!! BUSH WON!! that is it end of story. >>
Nate,
There are still ballots that haven't been counted yet.
And manual checks to be done.
Unless, Bush (I trust you the people, I trust the states) pulls out some sort of FEDERAL injunction miracle, and blocks the manual ballot checks.
<And manual checks to be done.
Unless, Bush (I trust you the people, I trust the states) pulls out some sort of FEDERAL injunction miracle, and blocks the manual ballot checks>
That "(I trust you the people, I trust the states)" never included "bureacRATS" and the canvassing commision are bureaucrats.
Unless, Bush (I trust you the people, I trust the states) pulls out some sort of FEDERAL injunction miracle, and blocks the manual ballot checks>
That "(I trust you the people, I trust the states)" never included "bureacRATS" and the canvassing commision are bureaucrats.
<< That "(I trust you the people, I trust the states)" never included "bureacRATS" and the canvassing commision are bureaucrats.
>>Gee, who runs the states, if it isn't bureaucrats? I would certainly think that canvassing commissioners would be considered part of the state of Florida. (they live and serve a Florida county, Palm Beach)...
Oh, maybe that's it....(I trust you the people, I trust the states....just not those biased elections commissions)
C'mon Bush, let them get an accurate count where it has been requested. If you get more votes you win, if you get less, well then, Gore wins.
Damn democrats. They should just admit defeat, and this stuff about punching the holes is a new low. What idiot punches 2 holes for a president?
<< Damn democrats. They should just admit defeat, and this stuff about punching the holes is a new low. What idiot punches 2 holes for a president? >>
Idiot? The manual recount isn't about the two holes. It's just trying to see that every ballot gets counted accurately.....
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