Total Linux n00b thinking of starting!

bluemax

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2000
7,182
0
0
Been Microsoft for almost 20 years now. From DOS to Windows.

My wife needs a solid OS for word processing, internet and email.

What would you recommend for rock-solid stability and security?

Please suggest a free word processor & spreadsheet too... Openoffice for Linux?
And can she port over her Outlook (not express) emails?

Her new PC: P3 600, i810 mobo sound & graphics, 256MB RAM. (In a tiny HP SFF box!)


For myself, is there a way to dual-boot my existing Windows XP partition so I can use Windows for some progs, Linux for browsing & email (no spyware and viruses!)
 

Brazen

Diamond Member
Jul 14, 2000
4,259
0
0
Originally posted by: bluemax
Been Microsoft for almost 20 years now. From DOS to Windows.

My wife needs a solid OS for word processing, internet and email.

What would you recommend for rock-solid stability and security?

Please suggest a free word processor & spreadsheet too... Openoffice for Linux?
And can she port over her Outlook (not express) emails?

Her new PC: P3 600, i810 mobo sound & graphics, 256MB RAM. (In a tiny HP SFF box!)


For myself, is there a way to dual-boot my existing Windows XP partition so I can use Windows for some progs, Linux for browsing & email (no spyware and viruses!)

Word processor and spreadsheet: Openoffice is my favorite and I recommend it

Porting Outlook emails: I'm sure it can be done. You'll probably want to use Evolution for your email client and look at it's import options.

Yes, you can dual boot Windows and Linux. This is set up automatically by MOST linux distributions during installation.

Good Luck!
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: bluemax
Great! Now what Linux flavour should I download?

Slackware, this is where you start and this is where you learn, it's probably the easiest install in the world if you are not a complete moron, but when it comes to getting the minor fixes, you have to edit, so you will get started but you will learn.

Personally i hate anything Debian based so it's out of the question for my recommendations, one thing in one package that these moronic managers compile for you may break your install, that won't happen in slackware, EVER.

So download slackware cd 1+2 follow the instructions, and you're up and running Gnome or KDE, or both, if you feel at home with Gnome, check out dropline.net, since slackware has dropped support for gnome and this is a reliable gnome distro for slack.

 

stratman

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
335
0
0
My favorites are Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS. Ubuntu is very popular right now. I think PCLinuxOS is the better distro, but the devs only support KDE for it, and while KDE is prettier, I'm much more used to Gnome.

Good luck!
 
Mar 13, 2005
27
0
0
The new Live CD distributions are great to try and then decide if you want to install them to your hard drive; I suggest Mepis and PCLinuxOS; both are geared to the newbie and their KDE implementation is similar to Windows. Using Thunderbird for your email, you can import your address book and emails from Outlook. Learn the basics from something like this Linux Guide.
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
1
0
Slack is not a noob distro. Neither is (imho) pure debian or gentoo. Go with Ubuntu or mepis, maybe even Fedora
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: nweaver
Slack is not a noob distro. Neither is (imho) pure debian or gentoo. Go with Ubuntu or mepis, maybe even Fedora

Have you ever installed slackware, you press enter, select language, type setup and choose which packages to install (if you are going to redo the partition table, it's as hard as with ubuntu, IOW, if you are stupid, you'll mess up) then you choose where to install lilo, and reboot, voila, Slackware installed.

Yeah, cuz them there tk based text programs of setup slack are, uh, the same as for setting up ubuntu but uh, slack is haaard becaus momma says so?

If you are not a complete and utter moron, ANY linux distro (except possibly for LFS) is easy to set up, Slackware is one of the easiest, i'd put it before Debian, Ubuntu and FC in terms of how easy it is to install.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Ok, after setup maybe, but where's the noob help, where's the easy to use package managment? More importantly, where is the noob help. Slack is semi elitest, you are not going to fine someone to help talk you though compiling, or setting up your sound card in slack. You are going to get a lot of RTFM messages.

There is more to an OS then setup. If you do not know what you are doing, you will break slack or gentoo. I will bet money on it. It takes a lot more work to break ubuntu or FC simply because it was designed with normal people in mind.

BTW I am a gentoo user. I do not use ubuntu.
 

Brazen

Diamond Member
Jul 14, 2000
4,259
0
0
Lots of good suggestions (except of course telling a noob to use Slackware :confused:, noobs should not start with Slackware, it's not even debatable).

My personal favorite however is Fedora Core. It's easy to setup up and installing software is a breeze with yum.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: Brazen
Lots of good suggestions (except of course telling a noob to use Slackware :confused:, noobs should not start with Slackware, it's not even debatable).

My personal favorite however is Fedora Core. It's easy to setup up and installing software is a breeze with yum.

Honestly, what is bad about that, it would be great if someone, at least ONE could tell me what is so hard about installing slackware, it uses an interface much like Ubuntu, it's straightrorward and what you do is hit enter enter spaceenter and it's installed if you are clareing the HDD, if you are partitioning manually, it uses CFdisk which you may or may ont be familiar with, it's easy though, hit enter on the partiotion you wish to install and hit enter again.

So please, all of you who are against Slackware as a beginners linuxOS, tell me why at least, please, just one good point, just one.

None of you have actually tried installing Slack, have you, you just heard it was "hard" and from there you go?

 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
read my post in your thread. I explained. Installs are not the hardpart of using an OS. Its packagemanagment, dep resolution, and configuration tools. It also is community and avaliblity of help. Suse, ubuntu, and the like do those better for noobs.
 
Aug 16, 2001
22,505
4
81
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Brazen
Lots of good suggestions (except of course telling a noob to use Slackware :confused:, noobs should not start with Slackware, it's not even debatable).

My personal favorite however is Fedora Core. It's easy to setup up and installing software is a breeze with yum.

Honestly, what is bad about that, it would be great if someone, at least ONE could tell me what is so hard about installing slackware, it uses an interface much like Ubuntu, it's straightrorward and what you do is hit enter enter spaceenter and it's installed if you are clareing the HDD, if you are partitioning manually, it uses CFdisk which you may or may ont be familiar with, it's easy though, hit enter on the partiotion you wish to install and hit enter again.

So please, all of you who are against Slackware as a beginners linuxOS, tell me why at least, please, just one good point, just one.

None of you have actually tried installing Slack, have you, you just heard it was "hard" and from there you go?

I haven't actually tried to install Linux myself since RedHat 5.2, what a nitemare that was. :Q

What I don't really want to care about when installing is having to set up partitions or having to know some obscure specifics about the hardware. It should be hidden from the end user. (64Mb partition on dev this and sector that for example)

If I want to do a dual boot with Linux/Windows I don't want to have to know what sectors and whatnot to use. It should just do it.

Hardware drivers should be listed and sorted by manufacturer part number and not based on what chipset a wireless card or a TV card uses for example.

No command line activity required when installing. (maybe this is the case now)

No command line activity needed to run or install stuff on the machine when using it. (Yeah go ahead and flame me for it)

If Linux is going to succeed with the average Joe (I see myself as a super-Joe ;) if you like) it has to be as easy to use as Windows. What I mean is that you don't have to have a CS/CE degree to run Windows, the same should go for Linux.


As I said before I haven't tried to install Linux since '98/'99.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: sourceninja
read my post in your thread. I explained. Installs are not the hardpart of using an OS. Its packagemanagment, dep resolution, and configuration tools. It also is community and avaliblity of help. Suse, ubuntu, and the like do those better for noobs.

AFAIK there are NO issues what so ever with thes, NONE.

You'll have to explain it further
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Brazen
Lots of good suggestions (except of course telling a noob to use Slackware :confused:, noobs should not start with Slackware, it's not even debatable).

My personal favorite however is Fedora Core. It's easy to setup up and installing software is a breeze with yum.

Honestly, what is bad about that, it would be great if someone, at least ONE could tell me what is so hard about installing slackware, it uses an interface much like Ubuntu, it's straightrorward and what you do is hit enter enter spaceenter and it's installed if you are clareing the HDD, if you are partitioning manually, it uses CFdisk which you may or may ont be familiar with, it's easy though, hit enter on the partiotion you wish to install and hit enter again.

So please, all of you who are against Slackware as a beginners linuxOS, tell me why at least, please, just one good point, just one.

None of you have actually tried installing Slack, have you, you just heard it was "hard" and from there you go?

I haven't actually tried to install Linux myself since RedHat 5.2, what a nitemare that was. :Q

What I don't really want to care about when installing is having to set up partitions or having to know some obscure specifics about the hardware. It should be hidden from the end user. (64Mb partition on dev this and sector that for example)

If I want to do a dual boot with Linux/Windows I don't want to have to know what sectors and whatnot to use. It should just do it.

Hardware drivers should be listed and sorted by manufacturer part number and not based on what chipset a wireless card or a TV card uses for example.

No command line activity required when installing. (maybe this is the case now)

No command line activity needed to run or install stuff on the machine when using it. (Yeah go ahead and flame me for it)

If Linux is going to succeed with the average Joe (I see myself as a super-Joe ;) if you like) it has to be as easy to use as Windows. What I mean is that you don't have to have a CS/CE degree to run Windows, the same should go for Linux.


As I said before I haven't tried to install Linux since '98/'99.

That's cool with slackware, as cool as with ANY linux install i am aware of either you use it all or you manually change it, sam in all distros.

You just want it installed without preserving previous partitions, if you can press enter then this is how hard that is.

It is not in XP, not in Vista, not in ANY linux distro, they all framebuffer dirvers, so no, you're going to have to install the dirvers in ANY OS,.

Linux certifications are on another scale, naturally, since this is unix, not windows, you can't very well expect someone to be ripped from one OS and being as good with anohter, again, this goes both ways, it's not a weakness either way or it is a weakness in both ways, you decide.
Gslapt is what you'd use instead of synaptic.

I'm looking for reasons why a linus install is harder with Slack than with Ubuntu, i have yet to find anyone with a proper explanation.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
Slackware's packagemangment is infinatly harder to use then synaptic. Its just that simple. There is no central repository with near the same number of packages as ubuntu / debian has. Also, there is nothing like ubuntuguide.org to help get newbies started. There also is not a friendly forum like www.ubuntuforums.org with a lot of help and tutorials for noobs. Also, most package installs in slackware require you to configure the program. Ubuntu packages come with sane defaults on install.

If that isn't good enough you are just trolling.

Slackware is fine if you know what you are doing. But a newbie needs hand holding, slackware does not hold your hand. SuSE holds your hand, ubuntu holds your hand, even fedora holds your hand.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: sourceninja
Slackware's packagemangment is infinatly harder to use then synaptic. Its just that simple. There is no central repository with near the same number of packages as ubuntu / debian has. Also, there is nothing like ubuntuguide.org to help get newbies started. There also is not a friendly forum like www.ubuntuforums.org with a lot of help and tutorials for noobs. Also, most package installs in slackware require you to configure the program. Ubuntu packages come with sane defaults on install.

If that isn't good enough you are just trolling.

Slackware is fine if you know what you are doing. But a newbie needs hand holding, slackware does not hold your hand. SuSE holds your hand, ubuntu holds your hand, even fedora holds your hand.

I think this is a problem for many, they don't understand slackware, basically, with an HDD above 20G you choose ALL and get ALL that slackware has to offer.

If you NEED other packages you can use slapt-get which is the equivalent of apt-get and Gslapt which is the equivalent of Synaptic, you can add a multitude of repositiories including official, use Vectorlinux packs, or linuxpackages repos packs, to include or exclude is simple, in fact it is AS simple as in Ubuntu.

This is, of course not recommended since Slackware pretty much just has it, it "just works".

This is the deal with slackware and it's also what makes it so attractive, you insert your cd, push enter a dozen timea and it "just works".

To be entirely honest, doesn't that make it the ULTIMATE beginner os? (actuall, the original reason why it was percieved as a hard to learn OS was because of the BSD layout which confused Unix users, this HARDLY applies any more, it is a zillion times easier to edit the BSD script files and add or remove than to even try to add yet another script or remove yet another script in debian based machines, don't want to use a daemon or service in slack? just -x it.

Slackware is what it has always been, for the subgenious, the point is that it's a beginners system, easy to install and very easy to maintain.

Patrick V is still king of this distro and it is and was as it will always be.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
whatever, your blind, you see what you want to see. Installing EVERYTHING just shows how little the core has to offer. It would also confuse a newbie. You failed to address tutorials, and help forums. Who is going to teach a noob where things are to -x them? Who is going to show them where repositorys are? who is going to show them how to find apps they want to use? Who is going to show them how to configure those scripts? WHo is going to explain to them even what a freaking daemon is?

Also, I hae used Gslapt, and it is not in the same league as Synaptic in terms of what you can do. It would work, but they would have to setup atp repositorys and then know to use that program. Ubuntu use synaptic and apt by default and shows how to use it. Also dependancy resolution is still a pain in slack. You will run into it if you want to use something that slack doesn't already give you (this is the reason I use gentoo). Slackwares supported and default package managment is tarballs. That is still a pain.

So answer me this. Gentoo is easy to install (just follow the instructions right?) has great package managment, a great user forms and howto docs. I think it is the best noob OS out there. Wouldn't you agree?

I love gentoo. But I recongize that noobs need hand holding. They need massive help. Slack, gentoo, and the like do not provide that. SuSe has that (yast is great for noobs). Fedora has that (yum is easy for noobs and fedora has a lot of noob forums and support) Ubuntu is great for that (Ubuntuguide.org will give you a great desktop, ubuntuforums.org will help answer any problem, no matter how trival).

Slackware still uses 2.4 kernels. This makes hardware detection on newer hardware a little worse. Some users will have to take manual steps to get their hardware working. As far as I know slackware still does not have a automatic update system or more importantly automatic security updates. Noobs will not be smart enough to watch security advisorys or to even update themselves. FC, suse, ubuntu, etc have automatic updates that can run without user intravention.

Slackware still uses lilo bootloader as a default. This can be a problem for people who want to run more then one OS. Lilo is very particular about where it is installed, grub is not.

And finaly slackwares release cycle is unknown. Packages can get old and out of date. Ubuntu has a fixed relase cycle with backports. This means users will not have to go download tarballs or source to get up to date software.

I wont deny slackware is a good OS. It is a good OS. In fact most linux distros are great if you have a foundation in linux. But it is not for beginners. Beginners need GUI tools, they need user support, then need automatic updates, they need massive hand holding while they learn what a console is. Or how to do something as trival as make X start with numlock on.

I understand slackware, I've used it. I found it to be a good OS. But when I was starting out, I tried them all. I failed on them all. My savior was suse with yast. Then debian as I started to want more control. Finally I went back to slack because I wanted to be leet. I learned what I wanted was not there. I went to gentoo because I wanted more control over my OS then even debain can offer, with the ease of a great package managment system with dep resolution. Slack could not offer that. So I have been a noob. And I know a thing or two about what it means to have your hand held. But arguing that slack is for noobs is like arguing that gentoo with a cron job that runs emerge --sync && emerge -uD every 24 hours is for production level servers. Each linux OS targets a user base. Ubuntu targets linux for normal people. Debain targets the open source crowd that craves stability. Gentoo targets power users and ricers. Slackware is a power user distro.

I the end it comes down to what a user is comfortable with. Most users switch linux distros like wild fire when they start.

Mepis, Xanadros, Suse, Debian, slack, FC, etc. Every OS has its own strenghts and weakness. I could list a million things that ubuntu sucks at, and come up with a large number for FC, suse, gentoo, slack, etc. But I do strongly feel that suse and ubuntu have made the largest inroads to a normal user using linux.
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
0
0
Originally posted by: sourceninja
whatever, your blind, you see what you want to see. Installing EVERYTHING just shows how little the core has to offer. It would also confuse a newbie. You failed to address tutorials, and help forums. Who is going to teach a noob where things are to -x them? Who is going to show them where repositorys are? who is going to show them how to find apps they want to use? Who is going to show them how to configure those scripts? WHo is going to explain to them even what a freaking daemon is?

Also, I hae used Gslapt, and it is not in the same league as Synaptic in terms of what you can do. It would work, but they would have to setup atp repositorys and then know to use that program. Ubuntu use synaptic and apt by default and shows how to use it. Also dependancy resolution is still a pain in slack. You will run into it if you want to use something that slack doesn't already give you (this is the reason I use gentoo). Slackwares supported and default package managment is tarballs. That is still a pain.

So answer me this. Gentoo is easy to install (just follow the instructions right?) has great package managment, a great user forms and howto docs. I think it is the best noob OS out there. Wouldn't you agree?

I love gentoo. But I recongize that noobs need hand holding. They need massive help. Slack, gentoo, and the like do not provide that. SuSe has that (yast is great for noobs). Fedora has that (yum is easy for noobs and fedora has a lot of noob forums and support) Ubuntu is great for that (Ubuntuguide.org will give you a great desktop, ubuntuforums.org will help answer any problem, no matter how trival).

Slackware still uses 2.4 kernels. This makes hardware detection on newer hardware a little worse. Some users will have to take manual steps to get their hardware working. As far as I know slackware still does not have a automatic update system or more importantly automatic security updates. Noobs will not be smart enough to watch security advisorys or to even update themselves. FC, suse, ubuntu, etc have automatic updates that can run without user intravention.

Slackware still uses lilo bootloader as a default. This can be a problem for people who want to run more then one OS. Lilo is very particular about where it is installed, grub is not.

And finaly slackwares release cycle is unknown. Packages can get old and out of date. Ubuntu has a fixed relase cycle with backports. This means users will not have to go download tarballs or source to get up to date software.

I wont deny slackware is a good OS. It is a good OS. In fact most linux distros are great if you have a foundation in linux. But it is not for beginners. Beginners need GUI tools, they need user support, then need automatic updates, they need massive hand holding while they learn what a console is. Or how to do something as trival as make X start with numlock on.

I understand slackware, I've used it. I found it to be a good OS. But when I was starting out, I tried them all. I failed on them all. My savior was suse with yast. Then debian as I started to want more control. Finally I went back to slack because I wanted to be leet. I learned what I wanted was not there. I went to gentoo because I wanted more control over my OS then even debain can offer, with the ease of a great package managment system with dep resolution. Slack could not offer that. So I have been a noob. And I know a thing or two about what it means to have your hand held. But arguing that slack is for noobs is like arguing that gentoo with a cron job that runs emerge --sync && emerge -uD every 24 hours is for production level servers. Each linux OS targets a user base. Ubuntu targets linux for normal people. Debain targets the open source crowd that craves stability. Gentoo targets power users and ricers. Slackware is a power user distro.

I the end it comes down to what a user is comfortable with. Most users switch linux distros like wild fire when they start.

Mepis, Xanadros, Suse, Debian, slack, FC, etc. Every OS has its own strenghts and weakness. I could list a million things that ubuntu sucks at, and come up with a large number for FC, suse, gentoo, slack, etc. But I do strongly feel that suse and ubuntu have made the largest inroads to a normal user using linux.

1. the thing with slackware and everything is that you install everything, it takes ~2 gigs and it just works.

2. You haven't used Glapt if you say it is nothing like synaptic, it has the same layout and the same structure, it's a copy of the layout.

Slacks thing is that you install it and it works, it just works, from a dozen clicks to a working system, now tell me why that is not the best deal.

I pretty much hate all debianbased distros since the HW recognition breaks a lot of crap that is not only hard to fix, you have to find out the idiotic service to stop to even be able to manually edit it.

Mandriva and FC is ok i guess, but if you can click enter a dozen times you can have a system that just works, i'd say that is more valuable.

And yeah, Gslapt is as good as synaptic, actually it is THE EXACT SAME thing.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
go read the man pages, synaptic has a lot more configurablity. And a slightly better interface. Now your arguing to argue.

and what if I need something slack doesn't provide? I have to go HUNT down a reposity that has it, add that to apt, then install, and hope that it doesn't overwrite a core slack system file or all the dependancys are there. Or I can download a tar ball and track all the dependancys by hand. Yea, thats a lot easier. I have yet to find something I want that debian doesn't have. And I have yet to break ubuntu by installing a package form the ubuntu, ubuntu backports, or debian unstable repos.

Contrary to your argument the number of clicks to install an OS is not what matters. For the record, ubuntu can be installed by closing your eyes and hitting enter until the system reboots. I just did it in a virtual machine.

You are just bias against debian based distros. It sounds to me you havn't even used ubuntu. its very rare to have a hardware problem in ubuntu durring install. And if you do, you dont have to stop services to fix it. Thats just a lie. Linux doesn't work different on different linux distros you know.

And remember in your other thread you said you are ON YOUR OWN if you choose to use apt in slack. That means its unsupported. In fact slackware website says the offical package managment is tarballs. And that is concidered a feature by most users. That means most users are power users. Because a noob wouldn't even know how tar works.
 

P0ldy

Senior member
Dec 13, 2004
420
0
0
Let her use Ubuntu. She'll never have to look at a single command line if she doesn't want to.