Total bailouts of Fed + Treasury + FDIC is now $6T+

[Acanthus]

Every house in foreclosure could have been paid off in full.

Alternatively, everyone with an ARM in foreclosure could have had the govt pay off estimated interest over the course of the loan with an agreement to the lender that the payment would immediatly be lowered to 0% APR for the remaining course of the loan. (cheaper).

or: Significant amounts of CC debt could be repaid.

or: You could leave it up to the Americans... Give every single american taxpayer $15000 (still cheaper).

or: You could have launched a "manhattan-project-like" green america effort for insulating homes, and research, development, and deployment of green energy (all types) nationwide. (job creation and direct stimulation of the economy)

Instead we keep on propping up banks who overlent and by all rights should die off anyway. The problem of course being they are "too big to fail" because the govt didnt break up these massive entities. This money is spent buying up bad debt and propping up the lending freeze by borrowing even more money to do so...

So in essence, the only thing being done for the average american is a ton of handshaking up top to make sure you owe SOMEONE money... God forbid a bank with poor lending practices gets hammered into the ground and goes under forgiving some debt We gotta make sure john doe pays his due! The rich are in trouble and Paulson and Co. wants to make sure they are getting a "fairer shake." The average american is still screwed, but hey we can borrow even more money if we need to. They just blew another $800B to make sure.

 

[StageLeft]

Don't forget, though, that backing a loan and paying it off are not the same. The gov has not spent that money in the same way it would if it wrote checks to everybody.

I'm not defending it, it's horrific, but it's not money spent, it's merely the promise to spend it if necessary, and at least in a few cases it won't be necessary. A good analogy is to pick an insurance company that has 1000 policies on people's homes, each at 200k, to insure against fire. That's $200M it's guaranteeing, but it's not like it actually spent or will spend $200M.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

And they have promised up to $7.5T for bailout.

As I said in another thread, let these fail. The market will adjust for their failures, and instead use that money to repair/rebuild/build our infrastructure. Build more energy plants. Build better mass transit systems. Repair the roads. Repair/Rebuild the bridges that are in bad condition.

Spend the money to get our nation to the point where we can get an "A" or "B" on the annual report done by Civil Engineers about our infrastructure.

 

[wwswimming]

BLoooomberg

" Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. government is prepared to provide more than $7.76 trillion on behalf of American taxpayers after guaranteeing $306 billion of Citigroup Inc. debt yesterday. The pledges, amounting to half the value of everything produced in the nation last year, are intended to rescue the financial system after the credit markets seized up 15 months ago.

The unprecedented pledge of funds includes $3.18 trillion already tapped by financial institutions in the biggest response to an economic emergency since the New Deal of the 1930s, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The commitment dwarfs the plan approved by lawmakers, the Treasury Department?s $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. Federal Reserve lending last week was 1,900 times the weekly average for the three years before the crisis. "

borrowing money to pay interest on the debt ?

 

[PokerGuy]

Good post Skoorb, you're absolutely right. People don't seem to understand that concept. The government isn't going out and outright spending 6 trillion on this stuff, it's going out and assuming risk and changing regulations, buying distressed debt etc. That's not the same thing as simply "spending" the money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not convinced the right things are beign done, but it's not as simply as some would try to make it seem.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Good post Skoorb, you're absolutely right. People don't seem to understand that concept. The government isn't going out and outright spending 6 trillion on this stuff, it's going out and assuming risk and changing regulations, buying distressed debt etc. That's not the same thing as simply "spending" the money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not convinced the right things are beign done, but it's not as simply as some would try to make it seem.

It's basically free insurance on a high-risk liability. I'd rather cover any losses by a guy gambling at roulette than a guy simply burning the money for fun, because at least the roulette player has a chance of me not having to repay every nickel he went into the casino with.

 

[GeezerMan]

Bloomberg: "Fed Defies Transparency Aim in Refusal to Disclose, The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral."
Will the bailout help the credit market? or help in more yacht sales?

 

[Possessed Freak]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Every house in foreclosure could have been paid off in full.

Horrible alternative.

Alternatively, everyone with an ARM in foreclosure could have had the govt pay off estimated interest over the course of the loan with an agreement to the lender that the payment would immediatly be lowered to 0% APR for the remaining course of the loan. (cheaper).

Equally horrible.

or: Significant amounts of CC debt could be repaid.

Yet another horrible solution.

or: You could leave it up to the Americans... Give every single american taxpayer $15000 (still cheaper).

At least this one is equal across the board...

or: You could have launched a "manhattan-project-like" green america effort for insulating homes, and research, development, and deployment of green energy (all types) nationwide. (job creation and direct stimulation of the economy)

I predict this will happen regardless. Killing unemployment/welfare with federal project workfare while helping our infrastructure.


The reasons I called the first solutions horrible is that they equally absolve the poor judgments of people. Bailing out the banks is a bad idea... But it is okay to bail out the people who really shouldn't have gotten into the debt they did.

 

[Chadder007]

This Trickle Up economics BS of this Democrat led congress and Bush has to end ASAP.
Don't hand companies money, put them to work!

 

[SigArms08]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
Good post Skoorb, you're absolutely right. People don't seem to understand that concept. The government isn't going out and outright spending 6 trillion on this stuff, it's going out and assuming risk and changing regulations, buying distressed debt etc. That's not the same thing as simply "spending" the money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not convinced the right things are beign done, but it's not as simply as some would try to make it seem.

It's basically free insurance on a high-risk liability. I'd rather cover any losses by a guy gambling at roulette than a guy simply burning the money for fun, because at least the roulette player has a chance of me not having to repay every nickel he went into the casino with.

And to that end, its also better than a sharp stick in the eye.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Every house in foreclosure could have been paid off in full.

Horrible alternative.

Alternatively, everyone with an ARM in foreclosure could have had the govt pay off estimated interest over the course of the loan with an agreement to the lender that the payment would immediatly be lowered to 0% APR for the remaining course of the loan. (cheaper).

Equally horrible.

or: Significant amounts of CC debt could be repaid.

Yet another horrible solution.

or: You could leave it up to the Americans... Give every single american taxpayer $15000 (still cheaper).

At least this one is equal across the board...

or: You could have launched a "manhattan-project-like" green america effort for insulating homes, and research, development, and deployment of green energy (all types) nationwide. (job creation and direct stimulation of the economy)

I predict this will happen regardless. Killing unemployment/welfare with federal project workfare while helping our infrastructure.


The reasons I called the first solutions horrible is that they equally absolve the poor judgments of people. Bailing out the banks is a bad idea... But it is okay to bail out the people who really shouldn't have gotten into the debt they did.

My argument is if they gave the money to the taxpayers who are in serious financial trouble... For example if they paid the interest on the crazy ARMs in foreclosure... Youre at least helping the american taxpayer in trouble AND improving those bad assets. The bailouts are just making sure the big banks can afford to leverage the average joe into bankruptcy.

 

[XZeroII]

apples - oranges

 

[manowar821]

Hey... Guys...

This was never about real people.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Hey... Guys...

This was never about real people.

QFT.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Bloomberg: "Fed Defies Transparency Aim in Refusal to Disclose, The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral."
Will the bailout help the credit market? or help in more yacht sales?

One thing's for sure there are still going to be idiots like you out there.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Yikes!! Up to $6Ts now!! My prediction makes me a piker, the politicians are into real money(the old quote about billions being real money sure got dated quick).

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Hey... Guys...

This was never about real people.

It always was about real people. Have you tried to buy a house in the last month?