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Toshiba Wins Hollywood Studios' Support for HD-DVD

K

klah

Diamond Member
http://www.linuxinsider.com/st...-DVD-Format-38473.html
http://www.pcauthority.com.au/news.aspx?CIaNID=17128

Toshiba Corp. said today it has won support from four U.S. film studios for its next-generation DVD format called HD-DVD.

The four studios are Paramount Pictures, Universal Pictures, New Line Cinema and Warner Bros. Studios, the major Japanese electronics maker said.

In its announcement this week, Toshiba corporate senior vice president Yoshihide Fujii was quoted as saying: "Support from studios whose DVD sales account for nearly half of the market means, in our view, Hollywood has started moving toward the single format [HD-DVD]."
Click to expand...

The only Hollywood studios in the Blu-Ray camp are the two that Sony has bought (MGM and Columbia TriStar), but they have most of the hardware and PC manufacturers; Dell, HP, Mitsu, Phillips...

I don't think this will be resolved in time for Christmas '05, and as long as there are multiple standards consumers will be reluctant to invest in the hardware and media.

 
Isn't HD-DVD backwards compatible?
And IIRC manufacturing is cheaper as well since you can pretty much upgrade the available presses and tools, while Blu-Ray will require entirely new tools?

Unless I'm mistaken there, I hope HD-DVD wins this one, I'm willing to sacrifice a few gigs for compatibility.
 
This is retarded.

I was hoping Blu-Ray was gonna take this one, & it looked as if they might, but now it looks like there's gonna be a real format war again.

If they expect consumers to buy both recorders/burners, it's not gonna go over well...
 
Originally posted by: n7
This is retarded.

I was hoping Blu-Ray was gonna take this one, & it looked as if they might, but now it looks like there's gonna be a real format war again.

If they expect consumers to buy both recorders/burners, it's not gonna go over well...
Click to expand...

If burners and media are available for both and they both have 1000's of movies available then who cares which format wins.

Hollywood supports many formats and always has, United States is not the only market. In Asia VCD are very popular even though they did not exist here.

The Plus vs Minus war turn into a perfect draw. You can use whichever format you like cause most newer DVD players play both and the media prices are the same.

 
Originally posted by: n7
This is retarded.

I was hoping Blu-Ray was gonna take this one, & it looked as if they might, but now it looks like there's gonna be a real format war again.

If they expect consumers to buy both recorders/burners, it's not gonna go over well...
Click to expand...


Exactly!!! The plus minus format is apoor analogy cause they both worked on similar playback hardware just a different burner was needed and that quickly was available in dual format. NOt a real war. NOw dvd-ram was more aof a possible format war with either one plus or minus...

I think this liken more to the historical Divx (pushed by Circuit City) vs DVD.... Each have their studios aligned....The matter of the winner will once again be cost and availability of movie titles...All the studios in HD-DVD category makes think the winner is probably set. Blue may be popular in Asia where it is already out, however the states will go with HD-DVD... In marketing stance the title sounds well too...
 
Hopefully one wins soon.So I can finally get use out of my hdtv.

I think blueray is better, but hd-dvd is more practical for consumers as it will be more affordable.
 
Hmm, it was looking like bluray was the clear all-round best choice for consumers.

what's the bets that the best thing going for HD-DVD is copy protection and/or cost of producing pre-recorded disks?

who cares which format wins.
Click to expand...
erm, me? anybody who doesnt want to have to buy two players just to be able to view any recently released movie? I dont care about any old thousands of movies, I care about the movies I want to buy and would be very annoyed at buying a $400 player that cant even play a quarter of the movies I want. I'd rather stick with the still-great DVD's and put off moving my film collection up a format until I know which one will last.

Doubtless a dual-format player would eventually be released, but going on what i've read this would take a fair bit of doing and would likely be very expensive. I'd rather the worst of the two formats gets a complete win than being stuck with no winner.

IMHO, most consumers are perfectly happy with DVD, and all either HD-DVD and Bluray will offer to them is better quality picture which will only be noticed on the expensive TV's very few of them own. Outside of the movie industry the larger capacity is likely to be more readily noticed, but even then how many people really need the bigger disks? You can fit a lot of data onto a DVD if you are joe consumer.

One new technology would be accepted, but given the lack of immediate need then having to choose between two wont.
 
I agree with the fact this is retarded, it truly is, I'm fed up with format wars, it never actually helps anybody, because the quicker a format can mature, the higher volumes get created, and cheaper the product gets. Format wars are bad for everyone, how stupid.

It's quite obvious that which ever format is the more popular at any given point should be the adopted one, and just drop the other one. The Whole + - thing is still unbelievably retarded, as far as I know, + shouldn't even exist, because it's not a ratified DVD standard.

I'm not all that concerned about the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray thing, I just wish someone would make their minds up and agree to create one, mature format.

As someone else also said, regular DVD is enough for your joe consumer, even today, and I find nothing objectionable about DVD quality video -- very few people have the equipment to watch or even begin to appreciate DVD, let alone something with vastly higher quality picture and audio, it really, truly isn't needed for a new video format yet, however storage is another matter. DVD doesn't cut it for storage and backups, but a 40+ GB disc is well on it's way to being useful (but I still don't think that's enough).
 
...I hope they both win. If you can get a $30-50 player that plays both, and PC drives that read both, AND software that can decrypt both, then it won't matter which is better.
 
Originally posted by: Sunner
Isn't HD-DVD backwards compatible?
And IIRC manufacturing is cheaper as well since you can pretty much upgrade the available presses and tools, while Blu-Ray will require entirely new tools?

Unless I'm mistaken there, I hope HD-DVD wins this one, I'm willing to sacrifice a few gigs for compatibility.
Click to expand...
HD DVD and Blu-Ray players will both support playback of old DVD discs. This isn't even a question.

I want the format that is technically superior, not the one that will save the content providers money. The only advantage HD DVD has over Blu-ray is manufacturing costs of the optical head and discs. Cost for either format will come down over time. Dropping prices is an enevitability in the electronics industry. How much did DVD players and media cost when they hit the market? How much do they cost now?

I don't understand why any consumer would back the lesser capacity format, other than price. But why is price even a consideration? Prices will eventually come down. The capacity, on the other hand, is stuck for the duration of this generation.
 
The bottom line is this:
  • Both formats support the same video codecs. Though, Blu-Ray supports MPEG4-AVC High Profile, which is supposedly better for high definition content than the "Main Profile" version that HD DVD supports.
  • Both formats support similar audio codecs. Each supports codecs for both lossy and lossless compression. Though, Blu-Ray has LPCM for uncompressed audio. HD DVD doesn't have this option.
  • Blu-Ray has higher capacity discs 25/50GB versus HD DVD's 15/30GB.
  • Out of the gate, Blu-Ray discs will cost more to manufacturer. Who cares? Disc costs are only a fraction of the $20 price of a movie at Best Buy. It might cost $1-2 to make a dual-layer DVD, but only $2-3 for a Blu-Ray disc. Does this make even the slightest difference to the consumer? The content providers are scared of the initial start-up and media costs eating into their profit margins.
 
Originally posted by: piroroadkill
I agree with the fact this is retarded, it truly is, I'm fed up with format wars, it never actually helps anybody, because the quicker a format can mature, the higher volumes get created, and cheaper the product gets. Format wars are bad for everyone, how stupid.

It's quite obvious that which ever format is the more popular at any given point should be the adopted one, and just drop the other one. The Whole + - thing is still unbelievably retarded, as far as I know, + shouldn't even exist, because it's not a ratified DVD standard.

I'm not all that concerned about the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray thing, I just wish someone would make their minds up and agree to create one, mature format.

As someone else also said, regular DVD is enough for your joe consumer, even today, and I find nothing objectionable about DVD quality video -- very few people have the equipment to watch or even begin to appreciate DVD, let alone something with vastly higher quality picture and audio, it really, truly isn't needed for a new video format yet, however storage is another matter. DVD doesn't cut it for storage and backups, but a 40+ GB disc is well on it's way to being useful (but I still don't think that's enough).
Click to expand...

The last part was exactly right....I think they are moving on this too fast. Most sill do not have HD DVD ready sets in their homes or let alone equipment that takes advantage od DVD resolutions now. DVD has taken a hold some 8-9 years later. I think Blue or HD DVD will only piss consumers off they are changing again, and I bet may become the LD niche market of our time. It definitley wont be mainstream for likely another 8 years. Consumers held onto VHS longer then this and really start to get pissed when they need to keep rebuilding the library over and over and over again.

Then let us talk about audio ability. Most do not even have DD5.1 systems yet. The industry is moving way to fast on this whole thing. At least wait until HD is more common place in homes for TV and cable signals....It is not even close yet....

 
Originally posted by: KnightBreed
The bottom line is this:
  • Both formats support the same video codecs. Though, Blu-Ray supports MPEG4-AVC High Profile, which is supposedly better for high definition content than the "Main Profile" version that HD DVD supports.
  • Both formats support similar audio codecs. Each supports codecs for both lossy and lossless compression. Though, Blu-Ray has LPCM for uncompressed audio. HD DVD doesn't have this option.
  • Blu-Ray has higher capacity discs 25/50GB versus HD DVD's 15/30GB.
  • Out of the gate, Blu-Ray discs will cost more to manufacturer. Who cares? Disc costs are only a fraction of the $20 price of a movie at Best Buy. It might cost $1-2 to make a dual-layer DVD, but only $2-3 for a Blu-Ray disc. Does this make even the slightest difference to the consumer? The content providers are scared of the initial start-up and media costs eating into their profit margins.
Click to expand...

Ultimately number 3 is worthless considering we are going from 4.7/9.4 now for single sided dual layer and again most do not watch this at its best level with their equipment. No justification 5 times the space. So they can not view that at even close to its prime??? 15/30gb is maybe even too big but more reasonable...


The fourth thing is usualy what america sells on. Cost!! sorry it is what drives the business industry. Refer back to 3. Why buy something for more when you don't need it....

Back to the Divx DVD days the cost was realatively a non issue. that one was about consumer protection I believe and how ppl felt about the current rental model, or the fear this would become a pay-per-view world. Hollywood supported Divx more and in hindsight with runaway DVD piracy and ease of average joe to defeat macrovision to copy DVDs it was clear that medium would protect copy-right better.

Ultimately I think Hollywood is in a rush to change the format to better close the loopholes in digital piracy. I see them through the smoke screen. We don't need the technological advancement yet. To soon to DVD becomig mainstream and HD's slow arrival into americas househlolds (who even kows about the rest of the world)....
 
Originally posted by: Duvie
The last part was exactly right....I think they are moving on this too fast. Most sill do not have HD DVD ready sets in their homes or let alone equipment that takes advantage od DVD resolutions now. DVD has taken a hold some 8-9 years later. I think Blue or HD DVD will only piss consumers off they are changing again, and I bet may become the LD niche market of our time. It definitley wont be mainstream for likely another 8 years. Consumers held onto VHS longer then this and really start to get pissed when they need to keep rebuilding the library over and over and over again.

Then let us talk about audio ability. Most do not even have DD5.1 systems yet. The industry is moving way to fast on this whole thing. At least wait until HD is more common place in homes for TV and cable signals....It is not even close yet....
Click to expand...
Wow, that's a crummy outlook on HDTV. Should the market stall on obsolete technology because you are too cheap to buy a new televion or media player? Sales of HD-capable sets grew 50% in 2003 and will grow a similar amount in 2004. There are already millions of HDTV owners that are anxiously awaiting more HD content. Time and time again they've shown that they spend the most money on content and display equipment anyway, so why hold back new technology. The home theater crowd dragged the market kicking and screaming into HDTV and they'll once again drag the market kicking and screaming into HD DVD (or Blu-Ray) and you'll all be the better for it.😀
 
Originally posted by: KnightBreed
Originally posted by: Duvie
The last part was exactly right....I think they are moving on this too fast. Most sill do not have HD DVD ready sets in their homes or let alone equipment that takes advantage od DVD resolutions now. DVD has taken a hold some 8-9 years later. I think Blue or HD DVD will only piss consumers off they are changing again, and I bet may become the LD niche market of our time. It definitley wont be mainstream for likely another 8 years. Consumers held onto VHS longer then this and really start to get pissed when they need to keep rebuilding the library over and over and over again.

Then let us talk about audio ability. Most do not even have DD5.1 systems yet. The industry is moving way to fast on this whole thing. At least wait until HD is more common place in homes for TV and cable signals....It is not even close yet....
Click to expand...
Wow, that's a crummy outlook on HDTV. Should the market stall on obsolete technology because you are too cheap to buy a new televion or media player? Sales of HD-capable sets grew 50% in 2003 and will grow a similar amount in 2004. There are already millions of HDTV owners that are anxiously awaiting more HD content. Time and time again they've shown that they spend the most money on content and display equipment anyway, so why hold back new technology. The home theater crowd dragged the market kicking and screaming into HDTV and they'll once again drag the market kicking and screaming into HD DVD (or Blu-Ray) and you'll all be the better for it.😀
Click to expand...

I am not too cheap...I own an HDTV capable set and have comcast bringing me an HDTV box for my cable.

The comment since you don't read well is that the average consumer does not have this. PPL like my mom and dad, my uncles, my in laws,etc. Most do not have HDTV capable sets now and just got DVD players in the last 2-3 years....This does not happen overnight and market penetration of HDTV sets and technology does not warrant this as anything more then niche market and early adopters. I bought a DVD player in 1996 as one of the first 500,000 units ever sold and it was a painful wait for titles to be put on DVD. It wasn't until late 1998 that all the hollywood players were aboard with the same format and then the titles were not coming fast and dvd rental places had little to no titles available for rent. It has only been in the last 2 years that dvd players have been 100 dollars or less and at that point may have finally penetrated as many homes as VHS.

Be an early adopter and fight this one. I wont this time, or at least for the next 2 years probably. It will be a niche market for the Hometheater gurus and ppl who like to pay way too much for something with limited titles and uncertainty... The home theater ppl will drag us into this but be assured it may take longer then it did going into DVD. Consumers are fickle and unless you can convince them that that new DVD player they JUST bought doesn'cut it anymore they wont upgrade...That is a fact...
 
By the way it isn't hard to grow by 50% when sales of units is so small...Heck DVD players form 1996 to 1997 to 1998 may have increased as much at 200-300% per year to get to the numbers they are today. that will taper off.

Dumping of chep plasma TVs may help numbers but consumers are going to be pissed when they see most of the market is going to go to the LCD market....ONce the HDTV cable subscriber numbers go up more then they are I think it will be a better time. I mean go ahead and introduce it now, but with limited ppl to likely buy now format wars last for longer periods of time whcih only work to keep the average sitting on the sideline afraid to leap into possible the format that dies.
 
Originally posted by: Duvie
Ultimately number 3 is worthless considering we are going from 4.7/9.4 now for single sided dual layer and again most do not watch this at its best level with their equipment. No justification 5 times the space. So they can not view that at even close to its prime??? 15/30gb is maybe even too big but more reasonable...
Click to expand...
Too much is never enough. Worthless for you, perhaps. I want the highest quality picture and sound quality. Period. Higher capacity means higher bitrates and bonus content stored in HD and potentially less discs.

The fourth thing is usualy what america sells on. Cost!! sorry it is what drives the business industry. Refer back to 3. Why buy something for more when you don't need it....
Click to expand...
Who are you to decide what I need? Hamstringing the technology to abate the lowest common denominator is no way to launch a new technology format. Every display format in the history of movies has required a restructuring of manufacturing processes and display equipment. VHS was replaced because consumers saw a clear advantage in DVD both in picture quality and ease of use. Releasing a shortsighted format with no clear advantage over current standards is a sure-fire way to kill a launch before it even begins.

Back to the Divx DVD days the cost was realatively a non issue. that one was about consumer protection I believe and how ppl felt about the current rental model, or the fear this would become a pay-per-view world. Hollywood supported Divx more and in hindsight with runaway DVD piracy and ease of average joe to defeat macrovision to copy DVDs it was clear that medium would protect copy-right better.
Click to expand...
I agree with this in principle. If somehow Divx won that format war, I'm confident hackers would have cracked their security measures. It always happens, it's just a matter of "when". DVD won because it was a superior technology that didn't require draconian copy protection - not because it was cheaper, which it wasn't.
 
I am not hampering anything I am just commenting I think this is bad timing!! Go ahead and release them I say. I know plenty of ppl and I bet no more then 5% of them will even buy one in the first 1-2 years of release. That sounds like a niche market, and ther is nothing wrong with that.

I like technology trust me. I have kids now (young) and I never get to listen to my expensive sound system anymore. The pciture is what I get to enjoy and I think it looks great now.

Any idea on intital cost of players???

Edit: lets also remember that on top of cost of capable TVs, new players, there will be higher price for these disc. You say higher capacity will mean more bonuses on disc??? They will come with a much higher price tag as well

Early adopers will spend thousands upon thousands now to enjoy these when the rest of the average joes who are shell shocked now with viusal and audio clarity will get them later at a fraction of the cost. It is just the market and nothing will change. It will probably follow DVDs rise in timeline. May be a bit quicker with backwards compatability, but possible format war never helps....
 
I don´t like new formats that won´t be a able to play my old dvds.......for god sake, the majority of the population has just converted towards DVDs from VHS not long ago I might add. If Blue-Ray isn´t backwards compatible (which is the case presently), then screw with that format and adopt the HD-DVD which is.

new technology is good, but Sony and company should give time for the world to evolve as well. Hence HD-DVD makes the most sense, even at the expense of a few GB.

or blue-ray should focus on storage for pers comps and hd-dvd should be used for movies.
 
I thinked it is mentioned both of the respected players will play older DVds, but I am pretty sure you couldn't put one of these into your player and get it to work or to work at a lower quality level.

I agree...Most of us here are enthusiast of technology whether it is exactly in the field of home theater. We are not the average consumer and our actuivities here speak little to the actual market trends..
 
I always think about what Sony media products have gone mainstream...beta vs vhs, Memorystick vs all other Flash, HD-DVD vs Blue Ray...gee I wonder who will win, especially considering Sony ALWAYS wants to corner the market and create a monopoly which equals higher prices. Even if as someone earlier stated that there is only a $1 difference, if you buy a 50-pack that's $50...and if a retailer wants to buy 10,000 that's $5,000 more (assuming it's $0.50 more wholesale price), and wholesalers buying from distributers 1,000,000 units that's $250,000 (assuming wholesale it's $0.25 more at distribution cost). America is all about cheapest.
 
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