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Tora Bora Operation

wiin

Senior member
Kerry Endorsed Bush's Tora Bora Strategy

When he was for it:
Kerry said the Bush plan to get bin Laden "is having its impact, and it is the best way to protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will."

Lest anyone mistake his endorsement as half-hearted, Kerry added:
"I think we have been doing this pretty effectively, and we should continue to do it that way."




Now, he accuse President Bush of outsourcing the operation to Afghan forces.
 
I too am all for ways to way to protect our troops, but when it doesn't provide results and the terrorist bastard is still on the loose I can't say it was a good plan.
 
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I too am all for ways to way to protect our troops, but when it doesn't provide results and the terrorist bastard is still on the loose I can't say it was a good plan.
If it's not providing results then why is even OBL supposedly bitching about it?

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/33063.htm

October 31, 2004 -- Osama bin Laden doesn't seem nearly so cocky in the unedited version of a videotape aired on al-Jazeera, complaining that the manhunt against him has hampered al Qaeda. Osama bin Laden's newest tape may have thrust him to the forefront of the presidential election, but what was not seen was the cave-dwelling terror lord talking about the setbacks al Qaeda has faced in recent months.

Officials said that in the 18-minute long tape ? of which only six minutes were aired on the al-Jazeera Arab television network in the Middle East on Friday ? bin Laden bemoans the recent democratic elections in Afghanistan and the lack of violence involved with it.

On the tape, bin Laden also says his terror organization has been hurt by the U.S. military's unrelenting manhunt for him and his cohorts on the Afghan-Pakistani border.

...
 
I'd imagine that by "they" BarneyFife was speaking of the unnamed people making unconfirmable claims. I can't rightly buy into such hearsay either.
 
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I'd imagine that by "they" BarneyFife was speaking of the unnamed people making unconfirmable claims. I can't rightly buy into such hearsay either.
Fair enough.

Do you buy into the hearsay and speculation that attention is focused on Iraq so we can't possibly be hunting OBL at the same time? Do you buy into the hearsay that chasing OBL from cave to cave has no effect on his abilities to command AQ?

I'm just wondering because many in here seem more than eager to accept some types of hearsay, much of it highly speculative, yet dismiss other hearsay and speculation out of hand. It doesn't take a genius to see there's a certain pattern to that acceptance/dismissal either.

 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Do you buy into the hearsay and speculation that attention is focused on Iraq so we can't possibly be hunting OBL at the same time? Do you buy into the hearsay that chasing OBL from cave to cave has no effect on his abilities to command AQ?

Nah, but I saw a tape of him looking calm and heathy the other day and that didn't please me by any means.
 
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Do you buy into the hearsay and speculation that attention is focused on Iraq so we can't possibly be hunting OBL at the same time? Do you buy into the hearsay that chasing OBL from cave to cave has no effect on his abilities to command AQ?

Nah, but I saw a tape of him looking calm and heathy the other day and that didn't please me by any means.
While I would like to see OBL brought to justice just as most would, I think we need to ask ourselves if that is really the most prudent thing to do. What happens when we catch OBL? We would either keep him in prison for the rest of his born days, or we execute him for all the world to see. Either way, OBL becomes a sort of martyr to the AQ cause. He'd be venerated, used as a symbol. Right now he's on the run, dragging his portable dialysis equipment around from cave to cave. He's been rendered ineffective and impotent. You can even hear and feel the resignation coming across in his latest video. Gone are the military fatigues and over-the-top rhetoric. He has been weakened and it shows. In the Arab culture, outward signs of such weakness are a death knell in regards to respect and authority.

Maybe we should never capture bin Laden? Keeping him on the run is destroying him and his cause and making a mockery of him to his peers. He's no longer a larger than life figure, just a man. Soon he won't even have the status of "man" but will be considered a weak old fool, and that's precisely where he needs to be.
 
While I think it would be nice to share your optimistic opinion of the situation, I can't bring myself to do so. I don't see how his caputre would make him a martyr to anyone who wasn't already behind him. Also, while has clearly toned down his rhetoric; that seems to me as something which might allow him to appeal to a greater portion of the Muslim community. I really do hope you are right, but my own analysis of the situation still restricts me from sharing your opinions on the matter.
 
Speaking as someone with connections in high level government places, I speak with confidence when I say that OBL will NEVER be found. Dub, for all his faults, will never parade him to help his career. That's a very selfless decision.

He's just never going to be 'found'. No martyr. No UN world trial. That's important.

Just gone. If he's been found, you're never going to hear about it, and you never will when he is, and neither will the world.

Trust me on this one.

 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Why didn't they let us see the unedited version?
Who is they? al Jazeera?
Qatar. Qatar officials notified the Bush White House before sending the tape to Al Jazeera and it was edited down from 18 min. to about 4-5 min.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Why didn't they let us see the unedited version?
Who is they? al Jazeera?
Qatar. Qatar officials notified the Bush White House before sending the tape to Al Jazeera and it was edited down from 18 min. to about 4-5 min.
Interesting. Got a link to verify that claim?

btw, you do know AJ has since broadcast the unedited version, which is where the NY Post got its information, right?

 
Originally posted by: plagiarist
Speaking as someone with connections in high level government places, I speak with confidence when I say that OBL will NEVER be found. Dub, for all his faults, will never parade him to help his career. That's a very selfless decision.

He's just never going to be 'found'. No martyr. No UN world trial. That's important.

Just gone. If he's been found, you're never going to hear about it, and you never will when he is, and neither will the world.

Trust me on this one.

I've heard the exact same thing.

Posted it a long time ago (>a year ago). My sources are in the military.
 
October 31, 2004 -- Osama bin Laden doesn't seem nearly so cocky in the unedited version of a videotape aired on al-Jazeera, complaining that the manhunt against him has hampered al Qaeda. AFP/Getty ImagesBin Laden the impotent / Opinion: Page 27 Osama bin Laden's newest tape may have thrust him to the forefront of the presidential election, but what was not seen was the cave-dwelling terror lord talking about the setbacks al Qaeda has faced in recent months.

Officials said that in the 18-minute long tape ? of which only six minutes were aired on the al-Jazeera Arab television network in the Middle East on Friday ? bin Laden bemoans the recent democratic elections in Afghanistan and the lack of violence involved with it.

On the tape, bin Laden also says his terror organization has been hurt by the U.S. military's unrelenting manhunt for him and his cohorts on the Afghan-Pakistani border.

A portion of the left-out footage includes a tirade aimed at President Bush and his father, former President George H.W. Bush, claiming the war in Iraq is purely over oil.

The tape also sparked some concern that an attack aimed at disrupting Tuesday's election may be planned.

But those who have seen the tape have said there was no specific information regarding an attack.

"We are taking this very seriously," said one counterterrorism official. "This is cause for great concern and we are certainly going on higher alert because of this."

The Terrorist Threat Integration Center, a joint FBI-CIA intelligence-gathering organization, has drawn up possible attack scenarios for officials to look out for ? based on information gathered from communication intercepts and interviews with al Qaeda detainees.

The most extreme of those scenarios includes a multi-pronged biological- and chemical-weapons attack; more airline hijackings; assaults on financial institutions with the use of car and truck bombs and an attack similar to the Madrid subway bombing in march.

Many believe that the ringleader of any possible attack is Adnan Shukriagumah, a 28-year-old Saudi-born Guyanese man who grew up in South Florida.
A $5 million reward has been offered for Shukriagumah, who has bomb- making skills, is trained to fly commercial jets and has been linked to Sept. 11 ringleader, Mohamed Atta.

Intelligence reports say Shukriagumah has hooked up with the El Salvadorian street gang, MS-13, which is known to be very adept at smuggling drugs and people into the United States. With Post Wire Services

NY Post
 
Originally posted by: wiin
Kerry Endorsed Bush's Tora Bora Strategy

When he was for it:
Kerry said the Bush plan to get bin Laden "is having its impact, and it is the best way to protect our troops and sort of minimalize the proximity, if you will."

Lest anyone mistake his endorsement as half-hearted, Kerry added:
"I think we have been doing this pretty effectively, and we should continue to do it that way."




Now, he accuse President Bush of outsourcing the operation to Afghan forces.

Kerry's a vile pig.
 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
October 31, 2004 -- Osama bin Laden doesn't seem nearly so cocky in the unedited version of a videotape aired on al-Jazeera, complaining that the manhunt against him has hampered al Qaeda. AFP/Getty ImagesBin Laden the impotent / Opinion: Page 27 Osama bin Laden's newest tape may have thrust him to the forefront of the presidential election, but what was not seen was the cave-dwelling terror lord talking about the setbacks al Qaeda has faced in recent months.

Officials said that in the 18-minute long tape ? of which only six minutes were aired on the al-Jazeera Arab television network in the Middle East on Friday ? bin Laden bemoans the recent democratic elections in Afghanistan and the lack of violence involved with it.

On the tape, bin Laden also says his terror organization has been hurt by the U.S. military's unrelenting manhunt for him and his cohorts on the Afghan-Pakistani border.

A portion of the left-out footage includes a tirade aimed at President Bush and his father, former President George H.W. Bush, claiming the war in Iraq is purely over oil.

The tape also sparked some concern that an attack aimed at disrupting Tuesday's election may be planned.

But those who have seen the tape have said there was no specific information regarding an attack.

"We are taking this very seriously," said one counterterrorism official. "This is cause for great concern and we are certainly going on higher alert because of this."

The Terrorist Threat Integration Center, a joint FBI-CIA intelligence-gathering organization, has drawn up possible attack scenarios for officials to look out for ? based on information gathered from communication intercepts and interviews with al Qaeda detainees.

The most extreme of those scenarios includes a multi-pronged biological- and chemical-weapons attack; more airline hijackings; assaults on financial institutions with the use of car and truck bombs and an attack similar to the Madrid subway bombing in march.

Many believe that the ringleader of any possible attack is Adnan Shukriagumah, a 28-year-old Saudi-born Guyanese man who grew up in South Florida.
A $5 million reward has been offered for Shukriagumah, who has bomb- making skills, is trained to fly commercial jets and has been linked to Sept. 11 ringleader, Mohamed Atta.

Intelligence reports say Shukriagumah has hooked up with the El Salvadorian street gang, MS-13, which is known to be very adept at smuggling drugs and people into the United States. With Post Wire Services

NY Post

:thumbsup:

CsG
 
posted by Infohawk
Is this another troll-and-run by wiin? I rarely see him/her respond to responses.

What am I suppose to say when there is nothing worth responding to? Since you have nothing worhtwhile to say it would have been better for you to say nothing at all.



Posted by Conjur
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Is this another troll-and-run by wiin? I rarely see him/her respond to responses.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The new Riprorin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose you are the old Riprorin. hehehe
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Why didn't they let us see the unedited version?
Who is they? al Jazeera?
Qatar. Qatar officials notified the Bush White House before sending the tape to Al Jazeera and it was edited down from 18 min. to about 4-5 min.
Interesting. Got a link to verify that claim?

btw, you do know AJ has since broadcast the unedited version, which is where the NY Post got its information, right?
Andrea Mitchell reported it on MSNBC.

 
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