Top Kill Fails

[Zorkorist]

LOL, at folks telling BP what to do.

-John

 

[PJABBER]

yes yes. We are aware that the new republican solution is the nuke from orbit strategy. By going down this road the republicans can say they offered a solution but lets think for a moment about the RISKS involved. Are you 100% sure that we wont cause more problems then we fix?

Firstly, it is not a Republican strategy, it is a Russian strategy based on the four times they used it to plug their own massive natural gas leaks. See my post #71 in this very same thread before panicking. It seems to have worked three out of four times and it possibly could have worked the fourth if the Russians had better data on the location of the leak. Considering it is now 30 years later, and BP does have an excellent idea of where the leak is, maybe the same problem does not apply.

Secondly, it is not a "nuke from orbit," which I guess you bizarrely extrapolated into the real world from playing that CODMW2 single mode campaign too many times in a row. It would be a calculated and limited detonation way down deep under the waters of the Gulf. You would probably see no more than a big ripple on the surface and feel the earth move under your feet if you were in closer proximity than anyone else would plan to be. BP would not do it, the U.S. Navy would at the direction of the National Command Authority - B.H. Obama - mmm mmm mmm.

Thirdly, if you would read my post #90 just above and quoted below for your reading pleasure, you can see that I would expect a full understanding and acceptance of the trade offs to this solution should it be used. I list a few of the expected consequences, others are likely.

I am not advocating anything here, especially without an understanding of the particular sediment/rock layering of the drill site. I am just conjecturing about the feasibility of capping the oil flow at the cost of whatever collateral effects will occur, ie fish kill, shore damage from resultant waves, destabilization of local fault lines, etc. Radiation does not seem to be a worry based on the prior deep water testing.

If the capping efforts don't work, it would be reasonable to consider alternatives that can be more expeditiously applied than watching three or four months of oil gushing out, but always keeping in mind that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

NO solution, NO action or inaction is without consequences. I hope people with maximum expertise on this make the proper choice of anticipated effects versus resultant trade offs.

It may come down in a week that we either accept a massively polluted Gulf or the detonation of a small nuke (and it likely CAN be a pocket nuke, maybe an adaptation of one of the old MADMs) in an attempt to seal the leak.

 

[Zorkorist]

Jlabber...

You need to put the nukes dowm.

-John

 

[her209]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon

Start reading.

In other words, you don't have a fucking clue either.

 

[PJABBER]

Jlabber...

You need to put the nukes dowm.

-John

The only thing I have picked up is my third glass of a very fine 2007 Catena Alta Chardonnay (Bodega Catena Zapata - Mendoza.) Man, that is some good stuff on a hot day!

Shall we play a game? How about the Low Yield Nuke/Kill The Gulf scenario?

You be the President.

Decimate the Gulf of Mexico or set off a low yield nuclear device off the Gulf Coast?

Which is going to absolutely guarantee a Democrat victory/loss in November? Mmm mmm mmm!

Some goat cheese will go good with that.

 

[RedCOMET]

It may come down in a week that we either accept a massively polluted Gulf or the detonation of a small nuke (and it likely CAN be a pocket nuke, maybe an adaptation of one of the old MADMs) in an attempt to seal the leak.

Perhaps we should use a sNuke and have Sec. Clinton deliver it.

 

[PJABBER]

Perhaps we should use a sNuke and have Sec. Clinton deliver it.

Like me, a guy who gets all the information he needs direct from South Park! :awe:

 

[RedCOMET]

Like me, a guy who gets all the information he needs direct from South Park!

Nah...I just use South Park to augment my already vast oil field knowledge




<----actually works in the oil field.

 

[PJABBER]

Nah...I just use South Park to augment my already vast oil field knowledge

<----actually works in the oil field.

Here is something that South Park did not mention, but makes their joke particularly funny -

A linear implosion device has physical dimensions of 5-6" diameter with a length of 24-34".

Now, I am not saying it is likely, but if one can stretch their imagination to consider what kind of fit that would be, they can also consider what someone would look like carrying the 50 - 100 lbs of weight, uh, internally. Even wearing a stretch pantsuit for support.

 

[Trianon]

At what depth?
Again strapped for time it's hard to get something sooner than later.
Then the differences between that well and this one. With such a dramatic one shot approach it has to be right like the window when re-entering the Earth's atmosphere during the Apollo days.

If the superheated rock does not cool fast enough and blows open even wider it would be worse as well. Sounds risky.

As happened in 1979 this will probably continue until relief wells are drilled and it can be shut off safely.

I would think you would plant the nuke next to the well, not in the well

 

[CallMeJoe]

Firstly, it is not a Republican strategy, it is a Russian strategy based on the four times they used it to plug their own massive natural gas leaks. See my post #71 in this very same thread before panicking. It seems to have worked three out of four times and it possibly could have worked the fourth if the Russians had better data on the location of the leak...

IIRC, the Soviet natural gas wells sealed by nuclear device were all on dry land, not 5000' underwater. Also I read (can't find the source immediately to link) that the Russians say their nuclear device technique has about a 20% chance of working on the Gulf leak. Not really convincing odds, especially considering how much worse things could get if everything doesn't go exactly right...

 

[MotF Bane]

In other words, you don't have a fucking clue either.

No, I know the answers, and you apparently know so little about nuclear weapons, you need to just start reading. When you finish that article, if you still haven't figured it out, I'll explain it to you. Maybe then you'll finally understand how stupid your original questions were.

 

[Throckmorton]

God damn these BP arraogant son of a bitches are evil

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/bps_ceo_disputes_claims_of_und.html

Impound their assets and charge them with criminal negligence!

And Vitter (Diaper Dave) wants them to keep drilling . . .

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/30/pol.vitter.drilling.sotu/index.html?hpt=T1

Wow... Who do we believe, the CEO of BP or the several universities that say there is oil in the water column?

 

[Andrew1990]

I thought oil floated, couldnt we just kind of "skim" the oil right off the top and process it? That way we get rid of the oil in the water and able to use it?

 

[Rubycon]

I thought oil floated, couldnt we just kind of "skim" the oil right off the top and process it? That way we get rid of the oil in the water and able to use it?

With a surface spill it's much easier but when it's released nearly a mile down and gets carried by currents and exposed to different temperatures things change dramatically making "simple" recovery and control methods difficult at best.

 

[Sclamoz]

I thought oil floated, couldnt we just kind of "skim" the oil right off the top and process it? That way we get rid of the oil in the water and able to use it?

From what I understand the oil varies in consistency, not all float to the top and the dispersants that are being used break that oil on the surface up and make it sink below the down.
This video has been around for a while:

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/05/27/jacques-cousteaus-son-takes-nightmare-dive-into-oil-spill/

 

[CallMeJoe]

With a surface spill it's much easier but when it's released nearly a mile down and gets carried by currents and exposed to different temperatures things change dramatically making "simple" recovery and control methods difficult at best.

:thumbsup:

There's a tremendous subsurface plume of oil moving along the Gulf's Loop Current. It dwarfs the surface slick.

 

[Zebo]

Small problem with that though... I'm wagering the ocean floor is not a particulary stable surface. It's likely more like mud/clay for a significant depth. Start loading a lot of weight on that pipe sticking up and it's just going to sink/bend/buckle under the load - leading to unpredictable results.

This is why I posited a cone. First off all the cone point will allow oil stream to slightly and equilaterally deflect around it while lowering it in hole and not blown off point. Once the tip of the cone pierces hole there is no way for it to be kicked out and you keep lowering. Cone has a very slight slope less than 2 degrees filling holes cavities wall to wall once it is fully lowered. I think it could work. I cap champagne bottles all the time in this fashion. (although according to my sister it's best to put a spoon in the bottle as it preserves carbonation)

 

[GuitarDaddy]

This is why I posited a cone. First off all the cone point will allow oil stream to slightly and equilaterally deflect around it while lowering it in hole and not blown off point. Once the tip of the cone pierces hole there is no way for it to be kicked out and you keep lowering. Cone has a very slight slope less than 2 degrees filling holes cavities wall to wall once it is fully lowered. I think it could work. I cap champagne bottles all the time in this fashion. (although according to my sister it's best to put a spoon in the bottle as it preserves carbonation)

It certainly seems possible to enginer some device that could be inserted into the riser and expand/inflate to form a seal against the inside of the riser pipe. If they can temporarily overcome the outflow pressure by pumping mud, they should be able to force a device like this down the well bore

 

[Zebo]

LOL, at folks telling BP what to do.

-John

So. Because they have control of hundreds of billions in assets that automatically makes them smarter? You ever seen Trading Places?

Or seen .gov at work?

 

[Carmen813]

Wait a minute here, people are seriously considering that the solution to an environmental disaster is a nuclear detonation?

Oh lord the irony, my sides are aching from laughing...or is it crying?

 

[Kur]

I don't know if it's the new angle, but it seems as if the oil flow has slowed. Still coming out at a good rate but no where near what it used to be, possibly they are showing the feeds from one of the other pipes?

Wouldn't an implosion bomb work? Not at plugging the oil leak but keeping the amount of oil in the ocean at bay?

 

[Locut0s]

I don't know if it's the new angle, but it seems as if the oil flow has slowed. Still coming out at a good rate but no where near what it used to be, possibly they are showing the feeds from one of the other pipes?

Wouldn't an implosion bomb work? Not at plugging the oil leak but keeping the amount of oil in the ocean at bay?

You mean a standard nuke? Cause that's what the term implosion bomb refers to "as opposed to the now defunct gun type nuke". It's just like any other bomb really.

 

[JSt0rm]

Secondly, it is not a "nuke from orbit," which I guess you bizarrely extrapolated into the real world from playing that CODMW2 single mode campaign too many times in a row.

pjabber nuke from orbit comes from aliens. Never make this mistake again. :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1MspmfEwg&playnext_from=TL&videos=E1qxN5MQ4HA

 

[Zebo]

Is Rush still hoping America fails ? Its his section of the country getting ruined ....