'Top Dog': How to raise your child to be a winner. Hint- Dont be a Helicopter parent

[JEDI]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/20/living/po-bronson-ashley-merryman-top-dog-qa/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

-it's OK for a parent to make their son or daughter feel unstable. Meaning, children have to get used to the frustration and jealousy that come from competition.

-We have placed too much focus on the importance of comforting children.

There are still too many soccer teams that don't keep score and give trophies to every player. Kids aren't fooled when adults don't keep score. They know exactly who got what goal and who missed.

-but make sure you never put your child in a competition they don't have a fighting chance of winning.

-> what's the worst mistake a parent can make?

Merryman: Doing too much for your kid and protecting children from failure.

Bronson: Parents who think they're helping their children by keeping them safe from losing may be inadvertently creating kids who are less capable of competing as adults. Parents must allow their children to fail. Children should be given the opportunity to connect the dots between winning and losing and that winning takes effort.



good advice but taken to the extreme can produce an alpha male bully.

What do u think?

 

[Hugo Drax]

Also you need to learn how to lose before you can learn how to win.

 

[waggy]

Also you need to learn how to lose before you can learn how to win.

/this

they need to learn if you want to win you need to put in the time and practice. not everyone is a "winner"

to succeed in life you need hard work.

I refuse to do my kids projects in school. My kids school shows off the kids work in the hallway or at events. you can tell what projects were done by 1st graders and what ones were done by adults.

hell My sister did nearly all her daughters homework for her up until she got out of high school. She then went to a local CC and was shocked that she failed out of school 2 years in a row and lost her funding.

well duh! she barely reads, can't write and has no clue on math.

 

[bshole]

I refuse to do my kids projects in school. My kids school shows off the kids work in the hallway or at events. you can tell what projects were done by 1st graders and what ones were done by adults.

Yeah, my kids did their own projects and it showed. I never understood why the parent done projects got better grades. It is so easy to tell the difference between the work of an adult and that of a child but the teachers went ahead and rewarded the kids who basically cheated with better project grades.

BTW: the reason that I don't help my kids with their school projects is because I am lazy, it has nothing to do with what is good for them.

 

[PokerGuy]

100% agree with Bronson and Merryman. This feel-good nonsense where there are no winners and losers does a disservice to kids who need to be able to learn what it takes to win.

 

[bshole]

This feel-good nonsense where there are no winners and losers does a disservice to kids who need to be able to learn what it takes to win.

In sports, it is this win at all cosst attitude that I absolutely despise. I have a 12 year old son who I have had in sports since the age of 5 (hockey, soccer, baseball, football, basketball, tennis, gymnastics, golf, rock climbing and track). My whole point in putting him into sports was NOT to win but to develop an interest in physical activity and instill a lifelong interest in some sport or another. I have found it quite irritating to see parents berating their kids because they screwed up some play or another. They reduce their own child to tears over a recreational activity. The parents care ever so much more about "winning" than the kids. My kid's number one objective is the maximum amount of playing time. He was happier on a team that lost every game but in which he got lots of playing time than he was on a team which won every game but he had less playing time. The "winning" team basically killed his interest in that sport for life. At this age, the focus should be on skill development and and engaging the kids interest, the obsession on winning by the parents RUINS the experience for the kids who just want to have fun.

 

[waggy]

In sports, it is this win at all costs attitude that I absolutely despise. I have found it quite irritating to see parents berating their kids because they screwed up some play or another. My kid's number one objective is the maximum amount of playing time. He was happier on a team that lost every game but in which he got lots of playing time than he was on a team which won every game but he had less playing time.

Oh god this.

When my daughter was younger she was a T-ball league. It was supposed to be 5-6 yr olds. but they didn't get enough kids so it morphed into a 5-9 yr old teams. The coach would pitch to them and if the kids struck out they used the T. My daughter was one of the few that could bat without it and she had good fielding. Her problem was she couldn't throw across the field to 1st base so she usually played inbetween 1st and 2nd.

The legue has a rule that every player gets equal time. BUT he hated having girls on the team so he would sit her every chance he got. Unless i said something. Then he would have his son stand next to her who would shove her out of the way to make the play. though to be fair he did that to everyone. the little shit would run up to a kid and demand to be the one to throw to first. no matter where the ball went. Other parents tried to talk to him and it just caused there kids to be sat.

he would make rude remarks about girls all the time. Even when my daughter was one of the best on the team. He wanted to win and would yell at all the kids but he also hated girls lol

She loved baseball until that season. then we found gymnastics..ugh now im broke..heh

Yeah, my kids did their own projects and it showed. I never understood why the parent done projects got better grades. It is so easy to tell the difference between the work of an adult and that of a child but the teachers went ahead and rewarded the kids who basically cheated with better project grades.

BTW: the reason that I don't help my kids with their school projects is because I am lazy, it has nothing to do with what is good for them.

it pisses me off when a project my kids do on there own gets a worse grade then one that was obviously done by an adult.

i asked one of her teachers about that one year. her response was well yes you can tell what was done by a parent. but since they have no way to be sure 100% they can't hold that against the kid. When i asked then why are projects like my daughters getting a lower grade. she mentioned the grading curve.

So i said something to the effect "ok so you want me to do her projects so she gets good grades. gotcha!" then i had to explain why heh.

 

[Moonbeam]

Competition is hate and we live in a diseased culture. One of the things that the insane who live in a diseased culture do is rationalize how wonderful their culture is. This is because culture is ego identification and the ego is self protection.

Our culture has turned competition into a meme, into a god we worship, our glorious defining characteristic, the basis of wonderful capitalism, not the predatory monster we have really created. We live in a society of killers and victims where being a killer is good. Everybody is competing to be the best killer he can.

And in this mad blind psychosis some folk say enough. Let's not play this game. But because they feel like victims they have no idea what to do. They put smilies on their boo boos because they are rightfully and deeply sad. And it's not long before the predatory psychopaths come along to shit on them.

The truth is always some third way. You can't win by being the best at being sick and you can't win by simulacrum victory. You win by escaping the prison of competition. Nobody can defeat a person who has no need to play. If you win the great war against the false self you win all there is to win. But for the prisoner of competition, victory is exactly where he can not look.

"OH but I demand to understand what I will not look at, Moonbeam.

Right, good luck with that.

 

[wirednuts]

BTW: the reason that I don't help my kids with their school projects is because I am lazy, it has nothing to do with what is good for them.

youre a good man, good sir

 

[lotus503]

thing is different lessons are appropriate for different ages.

competition for kids say 3-8 is stupid and somewhat counter productive.
kids first need to learn the framework for participation before the lessons of winners and losers.

 

[irishScott]

it pisses me off when a project my kids do on there own gets a worse grade then one that was obviously done by an adult.

i asked one of her teachers about that one year. her response was well yes you can tell what was done by a parent. but since they have no way to be sure 100% they can't hold that against the kid. When i asked then why are projects like my daughters getting a lower grade. she mentioned the grading curve.

So i said something to the effect "ok so you want me to do her projects so she gets good grades. gotcha!" then i had to explain why heh.

I think there's a balance to be struck. My mom did more of my posters than she probably should have, but when time permitted she made me help her put them together, and regardless she emphasized that it was "my" work and "my" grade, and that it mattered because it was mine, regardless of how true that might have been. As a consequence when I started doing more of my own posters in middle and high school, the pride of ownership was there to compensate for the laziness of my first few solo attempts.

 

[irishScott]

thing is different lessons are appropriate for different ages.

competition for kids say 3-8 is stupid and somewhat counter productive.
kids first need to learn the framework for participation before the lessons of winners and losers.

What the hell is that? I played house league soccer for 8 years, and for the first 3 or 4 the whole team got "participation" trophies. As the article states, I knew damn well when I hadn't scored any goals all season and I was quite confused as to why I was getting a trophy. At first I thought I had won something by accident. I then took the obvious attitude (being a kid) that I deserved a trophy at the end of each season (although I didn't know why) and was actually really depressed when I stopped getting them (I felt lied to).

Competition for kids 3-8 is human nature and can be seen on any given playground, the kids do it themselves. The key is to manage the competition so becomes productive and doesn't get out of hand, not eliminate it.

 

[lotus503]

What the hell is that? I played house league soccer for 8 years, and for the first 3 or 4 the whole team got "participation" trophies. As the article states, I knew damn well when I hadn't scored any goals all season and I was quite confused as to why I was getting a trophy. At first I thought I had won something by accident. I then took the obvious attitude (being a kid) that I deserved a trophy at the end of each season (although I didn't know why) and was actually really depressed when I stopped getting them (I felt lied to).

Competition for kids 3-8 is human nature and can be seen on any given playground, the kids do it themselves. The key is to manage the competition so becomes productive and doesn't get out of hand, not eliminate it.

There is a difference between what kids on the playground engage in and organized competitions, organic competition is healthy and found throughout all ages from sibling rivalry to playing with toys.

Thats very different than organized competition for sports etc.

sure some kids discover a natural talent or gift early on but in nearly all cases young kids are still trying to figure out what they are interested in when you attach winners and losers to this process and dont reward participation you introduce all sorts of dynamics that are not conducive to participation which should be the aim of anything related to young children by in large.

My 3 year old for example got a trophy for participating, dance competition it was different than the trophy the winners got but they got something that rewarded the effort.

 

[waggy]

I think there's a balance to be struck. My mom did more of my posters than she probably should have, but when time permitted she made me help her put them together, and regardless she emphasized that it was "my" work and "my" grade, and that it mattered because it was mine, regardless of how true that might have been. As a consequence when I started doing more of my own posters in middle and high school, the pride of ownership was there to compensate for the laziness of my first few solo attempts.

yeah there has to be a balance. I help my daughter on things she has trouble doing (the projects do say ask parents for help) but she does 90% of it.

now at 10 she does it all and i just give advice. At that age the kids should be doing it all. Still amazes me when we see the stuff at school that you can still tell parents are doing it.

 

[waggy]

There is a difference between what kids on the playground engage in and organized competitions, organic competition is healthy and found throughout all ages from sibling rivalry to playing with toys.

Thats very different than organized competition for sports etc.

sure some kids discover a natural talent or gift early on but in nearly all cases young kids are still trying to figure out what they are interested in when you attach winners and losers to this process you introduce all sorts of dynamics that are not conducive to participation which should be the aim of anything related to young children by in large.

Personally i think both of you are right. There has to be a happy medium.

some legues are pure fun and learning. I don't mind those being EVERYONE gets a medal! but if it's a competition type team then no.

losing is part of it though. you need to learn to lose and being a good sport. i think the "everyone wins" leagues you don't get that.

 

[cubby1223]

I'm reminded of my youth, my brother and I were into bowling and my mom enrolled us in a league at the local lanes. This league is like primarily with 15-20 year olds, I was like 10 and my brother 12. We had a lot of fun, I remember at the end of the season awards ceremony, naturally I had the lowest score of everyone, I was given the booby prize, I was so proud of the towel I won, teased my brother all the time with it, even though it was the gag award for scoring lowest

Competition is hate and we live in a diseased culture.

No.

Competition is life. Always has been and always will be.

 

[bignateyk]

Sorry, but kids need to learn to fail. The parents job is to be there for them and encourage them to learn from their failure. Failure isn't a bad thing. One of the things you see most often in people who succeed in life is the ability to shrug off failure, and to try again and again until they succeed.

Helicopter parents are just as bad as the parents who berate their kids for failing.

On one extreme you have parents who shelter their kids and they grow up with issues. On the other extreme are the parents living vicariously through their children demanding success at all costs. Both are equally damaging to a child.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Once again, competition is the great myth of our capitalist society, as I said before.

 

[cubby1223]

Once again, competition is the great myth of our capitalist society, as I said before.

Competition existed before capitalism, and competition will exist after capitalism.

It is a myth that competition can be eliminated by perfecting society.

 

[jackstar7]

Once again, competition is the great myth of our capitalist society, as I said before.

What?

Pretty sure Darwin made an excellent case for competition existing outside of anthropological constructs.

 

[irishScott]

Once again, competition is the great myth of our capitalist society, as I said before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpvq3hmCKCs

 

[bshole]

What the hell is that? I played house league soccer for 8 years, and for the first 3 or 4 the whole team got "participation" trophies.

Have to laugh about that. Two years ago, my son had a hockey tournament. His team lost EVERY game in the tournament. They handed out medals to his team at the end of it. My son was literally PISSED off. He threw the medal in the garbage as we left. He thought it was a joke that his team would get a medal for last place. That was only time it happened in hockey. At a certain age, kids don't want vacuous "trophies" that don't signify any accomplishment. Who wants a trophy to remember that they got their asses kicked by everybody else.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpvq3hmCKCs

Not a communist, just not a fan of how we have broken the capitalist system. If you don't see or understand that, continue posting from your bubble.

What?

Pretty sure Darwin made an excellent case for competition existing outside of anthropological constructs.

Yes, but Darwin spoke of competition as a means of survival...not a means of improving your child's self-esteem.

 

[lotus503]

Have to laugh about that. Two years ago, my son had a hockey tournament. His team lost EVERY game in the tournament. They handed out medals to his team at the end of it. My son was literally PISSED off. He threw the medal in the garbage as we left. He thought it was a joke that his team would get a medal for last place. That was only time it happened in hockey. At a certain age, kids don't want vacuous "trophies" that don't signify any accomplishment. Who wants a trophy to remember that they got their asses kicked by everybody else.

the accomplishment was competing in every game of the tournament despite losing each game. But yeah fuck that, its nothing.

 

[OverVolt]

Competition is hate and we live in a diseased culture. One of the things that the insane who live in a diseased culture do is rationalize how wonderful their culture is. This is because culture is ego identification and the ego is self protection.

Our culture has turned competition into a meme, into a god we worship, our glorious defining characteristic, the basis of wonderful capitalism, not the predatory monster we have really created. We live in a society of killers and victims where being a killer is good. Everybody is competing to be the best killer he can.

And in this mad blind psychosis some folk say enough. Let's not play this game. But because they feel like victims they have no idea what to do. They put smilies on their boo boos because they are rightfully and deeply sad. And it's not long before the predatory psychopaths come along to shit on them.

The truth is always some third way. You can't win by being the best at being sick and you can't win by simulacrum victory. You win by escaping the prison of competition. Nobody can defeat a person who has no need to play. If you win the great war against the false self you win all there is to win. But for the prisoner of competition, victory is exactly where he can not look.

"OH but I demand to understand what I will not look at, Moonbeam.

Right, good luck with that.

You know I do understand you but you are very bad at writing things that are easy to understand.

Aaaaand I actually agree too.

Competition is fine, but what we have is a hypercompetition environment. All is fair in love and war style. Which is why at the CEO/policy maker level there is so much corruption, backstabbing, lieing, etc. At the very top echelon in a hypercompetition, is actually nothing but cheaters. You go down a tier, and those are actually the honest skilled people.

Sports has proven this time and time again. Lance Armstrong? Baseball home runs?

Which is why there is currently so much corruption among the 1%. The real 1% didn't get there by hard work, hah. The top 10% did though. Alot of people in the top 10-5% think they are in the 1% but they are not by a long shot. Probably because its inconceivable how you could possibly work any harder, and they are right. Its because the 1% cheats their ass off.

It keeps things in perspective next time you read article after article of this CEO scandal or that politician caught doing XYZ, or Newscorp caught doing XYZ over and over and over.

I guess this is a good example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation_scandal

You only hear about the loosers in the top 1%. The ones who got backstabbed. The ones you don't hear about are the ones winning the hypercompetition, successfully bribing, cheating, blackmailing, etc. their way to utter dominance. Successfully backstabbing other 1%'ers.

For example

In November 2012, it was reported that agents of News Corp had illegally bribed a member of the US military to obtain a photograph of an imprisoned Saddam Hussein wearing only his underwear. The photo was subsequently published in a News Corp outlet. Bribing public officials is a violation of the US's Foreign corrupt practices act.

You all saw the photo. Now you know where it came from and why it was made.