Top-20 selling vehicles in the U.S. through October 2003

[Thraxen]

I just wish all these morons in huge vehicles who can't even park the damn things correctly would quit putting door dings on my car.

 

[Ornery]

The point is, once upon a time, the Chevy Impala was the best selling vehicle in America for many straight years, just like the F-150 is today. The best selling vehicle is NOT a sports car, NOT a performance car, and NOT an econobox. It's a low cost, full framed, RWD vehicle again and again. It's sturdy, capable, and roomy, with power to spare when needed.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Ornery
The point is, once upon a time, the Chevy Impala was the best selling vehicle in America for many straight years, just like the F-150 is today. The best selling vehicle is NOT a sports car, NOT a performance car, and NOT an econobox. It's a low cost, full framed, RWD vehicle again and again. It's sturdy, capable, and roomy, with power to spare when needed.

Low cost?? AFAIK, most transaction prices for F-150's and Silverados arre around $27,000+

 

[Eli]

Is there any way to compare safety ratings from those old big cars to newer cars?

I bet they'd be comparable....

I guess whatever floats your boat though. 😉 I like the raw power of V8's, but for some reason the high power, skyhigh redline of some of the newer 4 cylinder engines is very appealing.

 

[BAMAVOO]

Ford own joo! 😀 😀 😀


The reason trucks are so popular is they can seat 5 easily now and you can use them to haul and pull things. You can't do that in the family sedan. Honey let's put this tree in the Corolla.

.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

And yet again, Ford's F-series takes the number 1 spot because GM's trucks are split between Chevy and GMC. (isn't this always the case?)

 

[Aftermath]

They used to be the standard family sedan. Full frame, full size, V8, RWD, 4dr, and cost was CHEAP! Now, that same configuration is so rare, you're forced to buy a full size truck or SUV instead.

I've got a decent idea of the typical old fasioned "family sedan." Right now I drive a 1991 Ford Grand Marquis LS. ~3,900lb empty curb weight, 5.0L V8, four doors, big bench seats. Probably about as close to the old days of cars as you can get. And you know what? As nice as it is to be able to almost lay accross the front seat like a couch, it serves no practical purpose. The only two people in the car are myself, and my wife. With the windows rolled up, and the air compressor OFF, we score an average in town gas mileage of about 14mpg. 15 is our high average. The highway isn't much better, hitting as high as a whopping 25mpg on just straight non stop highway miles. The engine is woefully underpowered, rated at (I think) 150 horses, and 155ft-lb's of torque. Of course, that goes down the crapper when you turn on the AC. You can FEEL the car just drop off, requiring more pedal mashing than ever to get the behemoth to move from a stop. And guess what? With the AC on, that 15/25 mileage takes a nice nosedive to 13/22. So wonderful to not even be able to barely get over 200 miles off a full 18 gallon tank of gas. Being a Ford, at just barely over 120,000 miles, it suffered a complete transmission failure, running up over $1000 in repairs. Just a few months back, ( I made a thread on this), the alternator CAUGHT FIRE. I took it around to several mechanics to get opnions only to hear them all tell me that it's a common Ford problem.

But that's beside the point.

Your econobox bashing is pretty pointless. The big american cars were fine back in the day, but right now, they're pretty useless. Right now I'm looking for an econobox myself. A Toyota Corolla. Something reliable that wont randomly fail and fall apart, (see: domestics). And something that wasn't built in Mexico. (See: Domestics.) What's funny is, the I4 engine in the Corolla is only rated at 130hp. Slightly under that of my current large, gas guzzling, american V8. Yet the I4 gets 32mpg in town, and 40 on the highway. Wow, great power, excellent gas mileage, great reliability, great build quality, and what's that? Better than my current full sized american sedan in EVERY way.

 

[Ornery]

Compare safety of small 1968 cars to large 1968 cars. Compare small 2003 cars to large 2003 cars. The high sales numbers of F-150s is due to their cheap stripped down prices. I believe, with incentives, that's less than $20,000 easily. SUVs are where the big bucks are being spent. Anyone who's tired of the cramped quarters in today's econoboxes will choose a truck of some kind, or a Crown Vic. Japan has started into the truck market for this reason. Otherwise, they'd still be moving these little poopers..

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Compare safety of small 1968 cars to large 1968 cars. Compare small 2003 cars to large 2003 cars. The high sales numbers of F-150s is due to their cheap stripped down prices. I believe, with incentives, that's less than $20,000 easily. SUVs are where the big bucks are being spent. Anyone who's tired of the cramped quarters in today's econoboxes will choose a truck of some kind, or a Crown Vic. Japan has started into the truck market for this reason. Otherwise, they'd still be moving these little poopers..

Crash Results

Lincoln Town Car
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0313.htm

Toyota Corolla (Best Pick)
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0223.htm

 

[Ornery]

Your '91 G. Marquis is NOT full sized by 1968 standards. The engine is underpowered. My 1977 Lincoln was purchased used in 1982, and lasted all the way through 2002. Explain that! It was NOT underpowered and got about 12MPG. Cost to repair it, the few times it needed repairs, were dirt cheap! I don't give a damn about gas mileage, especially since it's only $1.50 per gallon. Our next vehicle may very well be an Expedition. It for damn sure will NOT be an econobox.

All car models are getting bigger these days. Why?

 

[Ornery]

SHOPPING FOR A SAFER CAR

• If it's effectively designed, a longer crush zone lowers both the likelihood of damage to the occupant compartment and the crash forces inside it.
• Vehicle size and weight are important characteristics that influence crashworthiness. The laws of physics dictate that, all else being equal, larger and heavier vehicles are safer than smaller and lighter ones. In relation to their numbers on the road, small cars have more than twice as many occupant deaths each year as large cars.
• Vehicle size can protect you in both single- and two-vehicle collisions because larger vehicles usually have longer crush zones, which help prevent damage to the safety cage and lower the crash forces inside it.
• Vehicle weight protects you principally in two-vehicle crashes. In a head-on crash, for example, the heavier vehicle drives the lighter one backwards, which decreases forces inside the heavy vehicle and increases forces in the lighter one. All heavy vehicles, even poorly designed ones, offer this advantage in two-vehicle collisions but may not offer good protection in single-vehicle crashes.
• All else being equal, you're safer traveling in a passenger vehicle that's larger and heavier than in one that's smaller and lighter.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Ornery: Point #4 illustrates why I want to commute in a D9 Cat.

 

[vi edit]

Who dropped the nickel in Ornery?

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Ornery
SHOPPING FOR A SAFER CAR

• If it's effectively designed, a longer crush zone lowers both the likelihood of damage to the occupant compartment and the crash forces inside it.
• Vehicle size and weight are important characteristics that influence crashworthiness. The laws of physics dictate that, all else being equal, larger and heavier vehicles are safer than smaller and lighter ones. In relation to their numbers on the road, small cars have more than twice as many occupant deaths each year as large cars.
• Vehicle size can protect you in both single- and two-vehicle collisions because larger vehicles usually have longer crush zones, which help prevent damage to the safety cage and lower the crash forces inside it.
• Vehicle weight protects you principally in two-vehicle crashes. In a head-on crash, for example, the heavier vehicle drives the lighter one backwards, which decreases forces inside the heavy vehicle and increases forces in the lighter one. All heavy vehicles, even poorly designed ones, offer this advantage in two-vehicle collisions but may not offer good protection in single-vehicle crashes.
• All else being equal, you're safer traveling in a passenger vehicle that's larger and heavier than in one that's smaller and lighter.

Thanks, time to put a down deposit on this.

 

[Aftermath]

All car models are getting bigger these days. Why?

They get slightly bigger to allow for more interior room. That doesn't prove much.
Here's a question for you.

Why have all of the standard full sized american sedans been extinct for years?
The only ones you can find now and the Grand Marquis, Crown Victora, and Lincoln Towncar. At least as far as the well known names go. If everyone is so uppity about space and comfort, why are they gone? Why do I have to pick one of three if I want a huge hulking car? While on the other hand, there are heaps of small econimical cars to pick from, ranging from low budget with basic features, up to extremely fancy shmancy luxury models with every bell and whistle you could think of. In fact, offering more features and accessories still, than the big three american sedans that are still around.

Here's another one for you.
Why do gas/electric hybrid cars exist?
Because some people actually do worry about gas, gas prices, depleating resources, or just flat out being more economical.

I'm not even going to touch the safety features of cars, I feel that's a pretty subjective point.
It IS a fact, that larger cars are safer. They weigh more, there's more between you and the other vehicle, that's fine.

But that's completely moot if you're in a 75mph collision if the car isn't properly equipped otherwise, or you aren't wearing a seatbelt. As someone stated earlier, the little cars have airbags out the wazoo. They're also designed to take impacts, with crumple zones, and force distrobution. This isn't 1968, you aren't comparing a first generation Honda to a Chevy Impala. Imports have become very popular in the past 40 years. They've gotten a bit bigger, more well known, more powerful, and more fun to drive.

 

[gnuel3]

Whoa, the Taurus is #8, but I rarely see a new one around here...I live in socal too...

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Aftermath: all the people that bought large cars are buying large SUVs. The people that want small cars haven't changed.

 

[Eli]

There are people that do worry about gas milage, though.

The Chevy 350 in my Dad's pickup.. also known as "The Toilet", gets absolutely horrid gas milage. He spends about 100$/mo on gas, which is entirely too much for us. That is only traveling the 15 minutes to work and back, and petering around town for groceries and whatnot.

He's looking for a nice small car to commute to work with. What is wrong with that? Why waste all that money driving yourself in a big rig, when you don't have to? A more economical car would pay for itself in short order, considering we could probably get that 100$ down to 40.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: gnuel3
Whoa, the Taurus is #8, but I rarely see a new one around here...I live in socal too...

It's all those government contracts, and rental company contracts that they get.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Compare safety of small 1968 cars to large 1968 cars. Compare small 2003 cars to large 2003 cars. The high sales numbers of F-150s is due to their cheap stripped down prices. I believe, with incentives, that's less than $20,000 easily. SUVs are where the big bucks are being spent. Anyone who's tired of the cramped quarters in today's econoboxes will choose a truck of some kind, or a Crown Vic. Japan has started into the truck market for this reason. Otherwise, they'd still be moving these little poopers..

You're big mistake is assuming that everybody buys large trucks and SUVs because they want the extra interior room. Some people buy them because they offer mid-sized sedan interior room with the utility of extra large hauling space - a convenience that one cannot get from any full size car. If I need to tow a boat or haul several cubic yards of mulch to my backyard, I'm going to do that in a TRUCK, not some trumped up boat of a vehicle with an oversized, inefficient engine.

Claiming that higher SUV sales somehow indicate the wants of the average consumer is ridiculous. SUVs have become the status symbol of middle America. How else would you explain how Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, etc, etc. can sell hundreds of thousands of car-based SUV/crossovers each year? Because people need the added comfort? High SUV sales further prove how important image and status is to the average American "consumer."

For anybody interested, here's the sales results for Chevy in 1968. Here are the sales results for Toyota through October of 2003. Not too bad given the increased level of competition in today's marketplace. I guess the consumer has spoken.

 

[vi edit]

My wife has a 8 mile drive to get to class and work. It's all in town driving, never exceeding 40MPH. She has no need for a full size vehicle that gets considerably worse milage, is a bitch to park in tight parking ramps, turns like a pig, and won't even fit in our garage.

She'll gladly take a compact or midsize "gocart" over a land yaht ANY DAY. And many people are in the same situation as her.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

vi_edit: part of that problem is that so many lots skimp on space size so they can cram more in. I've been to lots in a full size truck (reg cab, long bed) that I ended up parking with my wheels on both lines. There was no theoretical way to fit. And others in a mid size car that had 6" between cars. I've seen pictures of lots that have been restriped to the point where compact cars barely fit, and a motorcycle is perfect sized for the spots. (especially prevelant in places like SF)

 

[Thump553]

I was stunned how this list is totally dominated by trucks. Last I knew the government had "relaxed" safety and maybe pollution standards for trucks as opposed to cars. That cuts a couple of thousand off the purchase price, and goes a long way towards explaining the popularity of SUVs and pickups.

Time to level the playing field, I think. There are far too many pretty trucks out there being used as cars for all practical purposes.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Thump553
I was stunned how this list is totally dominated by trucks. Last I knew the government had "relaxed" safety and maybe pollution standards for trucks as opposed to cars. That cuts a couple of thousand off the purchase price, and goes a long way towards explaining the popularity of SUVs and pickups.

Time to level the playing field, I think. There are far too many pretty trucks out there being used as cars for all practical purposes.

I know that they aren't ALL of the sales, but just think about how many GM Full size and Ford Full size trucks you see with some sort of company logo on them. I live in a rural farming area. Probably 1/3 of trucks here are used for agricultural uses. 1/3 are used for buisness uses, and then probably a 1/3 are bought for non-commercial use.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Ornery
There's also the safety aspect of the larger vehicle. Pay a little more for fuel, to gain more comfort AND safety. With gas at $1.50 per gallon, adjusted for inflation, it's cheaper than it was when huge American cars were the norm. If you wanted economy back then, you could buy a Corvair, VW bug, or even a Nova.

The F-150 replaced the full size family sedan. If somebody wanted a small performance car back in the Impala days, they'd buy a Camaro, Mustang or Firebird. Hell, you could even get an Impala with performance parts right from the factory. Those were the days when you could configure almost every aspect of your car's drive train, let alone the interior and exterior trim.

I'm sorry, but not everyone likes to drive large vehicles. I can drive larger vehicles (F-150's, Expeditions, etc.), but I prefer a smaller vehicle. Why drive something that's BIGGER than what I need. I'm 5'10" and can fit in just about anything I want to.

And my car gets 30-31 MPG on the highway and still has comfortable room for 4 people (5 in a pinch). And these days, cars are VERY safe. Most cars have airbags out the wazoo (front, side, head curtain, knee) , safety crumple zones, high tensil strength steel, steel side door guard beams, and enough electronic accident avoidance geegahs to make even a Saturn V launch look mediocre.

And don't forget people who like cars that actually turn. Sheesh. I like driving my Accord because it actually handles well, has nice power (no, not stock) and is still economical. Your fascination with large vehicles is well, your own but I'm 6' and fit quite comfortably in my car. Frankly, I don't think I'd want a bigger car. And half the reason cars are getting bigger and more powerful is so that friggin' SUV drivers won't take their heads off when they get into accidents. It is the American way to be wasteful and I fully embody that. But at some point, enough is enough. I use enough gas as it is. If I had a larger car I'd just use even more.....