Top 1% pays 50% of the taxes.

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: blackangst1
You know what? I am. Ive admitted it several times on this board. But let me tell you something else...I havent received ONE CENT from my trust. EVER. Trust is from daddy who grew his wealth the old fashioned way-earned it. He and my mom were divorced when I was 6, and mom got custody. Mom during my school days was a nursing student who worked part time tossing pizzas. Sure, dad payed child support, but at the time it was ordered he was just an ordinary engineer and P&G so it was nothing even remotely exorbitant. I grew up POOR. Despite the millions in my trust, I havent received a penny. Go read up on A/B trusts and you'll know why.

So cut your silver spoon bullshit and quit being a douche. My POV on things comes from a guy who came from a poor upbringing, and fought tooth and nail to get to upper middle class living well now. So fuck off with your accusations and contribute something for a change.

So when do you get your money?

When step monster dies. Dad already did. The reason for the stipulation is for tax shelter reasons.

Hmmmm... Dirty Deed done not so dirt cheap

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I understand what youre saying, and the corner youre trying to pigeonhole me into, and I dont entirely disagree; however, Im what I would call a federal minimalist. In other words, I think our federal government needs to shrink by like 40% to even begin to be effective. I dont understand this rally cry to balance the budget with the rich's money when the fucking government wont even meet its own citizens halfway! Fuck that! Did you know the federal budget, adjusted for inflation, has grown every year since 1932? Why the fuck is that? Sure Clinton in partnership with the GOP balanced the budget. Great. But on whose tax dollars? Fuck that. Its high time our government gave a little too. And I dont mean more entitlement programs either.

I don't want to pigeonhole you. In the eye of the beholder as they say. If this is truly your ideology then vote for that. But nobody is balancing shit so this society needs to be payed for. The pill must be swallowed and it should be swallowed by those who have gotten fat by existing in it.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: blackangst1
You know what? I am. Ive admitted it several times on this board. But let me tell you something else...I havent received ONE CENT from my trust. EVER. Trust is from daddy who grew his wealth the old fashioned way-earned it. He and my mom were divorced when I was 6, and mom got custody. Mom during my school days was a nursing student who worked part time tossing pizzas. Sure, dad payed child support, but at the time it was ordered he was just an ordinary engineer and P&G so it was nothing even remotely exorbitant. I grew up POOR. Despite the millions in my trust, I havent received a penny. Go read up on A/B trusts and you'll know why.

So cut your silver spoon bullshit and quit being a douche. My POV on things comes from a guy who came from a poor upbringing, and fought tooth and nail to get to upper middle class living well now. So fuck off with your accusations and contribute something for a change.

So when do you get your money?

When step monster dies. Dad already did. The reason for the stipulation is for tax shelter reasons.

Hmmmm... Dirty Deed done not so dirt cheap

Its fine with me as long as I avoid high six to low seven figures worth of taxes.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Genx87

And so are FDR entitlement programs oh no! Point being the tax cuts provided a boost in 01-03. That boost is now the norm, thus the stimulation is gone.

:laugh:

Why did the GDP increase at a faster rate in the 4 previous years?

Increase in Nominal GDP
GDP (in billions of dollars)

1998 - - - $8,747.0
1999 - - - $9,268.4
2000 - - - $9,817.0
2001 - - - $10,128.0
2002 - - - $10,469.6
2003 - - - $10,960.8
2004 - - - $11,685.9


Boost in what, again?

Federal Receipts (millions of $)

2004 . . . . . 1,880,279
2003 . . . . . 1,782,532
2002 . . . . . 1,853,395
2001 . . . . . 1,991,426
2000 . . . . . 2,025,457
1999 . . . . . 1,827,645
1998 . . . . . 1,721,955

Individual Income Tax Receipts (millions)

2005 . . . . . . . .$927,222
2004 . . . . . . . .$808,959
2003 . . . . . . . . $793,699
2002 . . . . . . . . $858,345
2001 . . . . . . . . .$994,339
2000 . . . . . . . $1,004,462
1999 . . . . . . . . . $879,480
1998 . . . . . . . . . .$828,586
1997 . . . . . . . . . .$737,466


Social Insurance taxes as a percentage of overall receipts:
2000 - 32.23%
2005 - 36.87%
That would be an increase of 14.4%.

Individual income taxes as a percentage of overall receipts:
2000 - 49.59%
2005 - 43.05%
That would be a decrease of 13.19%.




(wait for it)








With all that VooDoo Economics leading to this ....

Increase in Federal Debt per Year
(in billions of dollars)

2004 - - $596 Billion
2003 - - $555 Billion
2002 - - $421 Billion
2001 - - $133 Billion
2000 - - $18 Billion




Any questions?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I understand what youre saying, and the corner youre trying to pigeonhole me into, and I dont entirely disagree; however, Im what I would call a federal minimalist. In other words, I think our federal government needs to shrink by like 40% to even begin to be effective. I dont understand this rally cry to balance the budget with the rich's money when the fucking government wont even meet its own citizens halfway! Fuck that! Did you know the federal budget, adjusted for inflation, has grown every year since 1932? Why the fuck is that? Sure Clinton in partnership with the GOP balanced the budget. Great. But on whose tax dollars? Fuck that. Its high time our government gave a little too. And I dont mean more entitlement programs either.

I don't want to pigeonhole you. In the eye of the beholder as they say. If this is truly your ideology then vote for that. But nobody is balancing shit so this society needs to be payed for. The pill must be swallowed and it should be swallowed by those who have gotten fat by existing in it.

Then I guess we'll agree to disagree on who should pay. I just cant figure out why its so unpopular to want your government to meet its citizens halfway, and to instead just expect those that can afford to fund every whim to do so. /boggle

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Any questions?

http://www.planetavp.com/amr/h...nds/alien2/chicken.wav

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Then I guess we'll agree to disagree on who should pay. I just cant figure out why its so unpopular to want your government to meet its citizens halfway, and to instead just expect those that can afford to fund every whim to do so. /boggle

Well Look at the charts above. I have always been one to believe that those who are hungry for it work harder. Why should it be easier when you are rich? Instead their should be drive to try and make more and if you can't oh well that's life.

As a personal example a kid came into my industry with no experience but he was given a chance. Is father had passed away and left him with a sizable fortune (probably not millions but whatever). He totally failed. He was lazy and inept and he doesn't do shit now. These are the basket case wealthy that don't deserve any more then the fact that somebody before them worked hard enough to deserve having spoiled children.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: JD50


Wow, you are batting a thousand today. The first thing you did was assume that I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, then complain when I make an assumption based on your actual words. You also accused Blackangst of avoiding questions and not giving straight answers, when you've done the exact same thing several times. Now you've turned into an E-tough guy threatening me, awesome. For all I know you could be richer than I am, and probably are, because I'm not anywhere close to being rich. If so, that's great, congratulations on your success or your families success, I don't hold anything against rich people like some of you do. I was born into a middle class family, and after making some silly decisions when I was younger, I've worked my way back up to the middle class, no silver spoon here.

Now why don't you answer the questions? No one cares about your dog walking clients, everyone has anecdotal stories they can share, they don't mean anything. Since you're obviously having problems scrolling up and reading the questions, I'll repeat them.

In your perfect society everyone would be middle class or what?

Could you tell us roughly what percentage of the "rich and ultra rich" are living off of inherited money?

Why don't you fuck off asshole. I don't walk dogs for a living, I'm doing it as a favor for friends. You do know what "friends' are??

Wow, someone's a little touchy. If you can't take it, don't dish it out, you're the one that started in with the silver spoon bullshit. I was just looking for an answer to my question, which you're still avoiding. I knew you wouldn't answer it, because you're not actually interested in the facts. Come back when you can answer my question and you grow a little thicker skin. When you tell people to "get out in the world and meet a few people" then proceed to talk about the people that live next door to you, you're going to get called on it.

It's obvious to me (despite both your and Blackangst claims to the contrar) that your both trust fund babies.

You know what? I am. Ive admitted it several times on this board. But let me tell you something else...I havent received ONE CENT from my trust. EVER. Trust is from daddy who grew his wealth the old fashioned way-earned it. He and my mom were divorced when I was 6, and mom got custody. Mom during my school days was a nursing student who worked part time tossing pizzas. Sure, dad payed child support, but at the time it was ordered he was just an ordinary engineer and P&G so it was nothing even remotely exorbitant. I grew up POOR. Despite the millions in my trust, I havent received a penny. Go read up on A/B trusts and you'll know why.

So cut your silver spoon bullshit and quit being a douche. My POV on things comes from a guy who came from a poor upbringing, and fought tooth and nail to get to upper middle class living well now. So fuck off with your accusations and contribute something for a change.

I have contributed so fuck off yourself.

Consider this. Two identical tightropes are strung up and time trials are conducted across them. If one of the tightropes has a safety net and the other doesn't which tightrope would you expect to have the fastest times?

I think the answer is obvious.

 

[sactoking]

Just a request: please stop talking about 'wealth' if you're also talking about income taxes.

Income != wealth

Income tax does not tax wealth.

High earners are not necessarily wealthy

Wealthy people do not necessarily realize lots of income

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: JD50


Wow, you are batting a thousand today. The first thing you did was assume that I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, then complain when I make an assumption based on your actual words. You also accused Blackangst of avoiding questions and not giving straight answers, when you've done the exact same thing several times. Now you've turned into an E-tough guy threatening me, awesome. For all I know you could be richer than I am, and probably are, because I'm not anywhere close to being rich. If so, that's great, congratulations on your success or your families success, I don't hold anything against rich people like some of you do. I was born into a middle class family, and after making some silly decisions when I was younger, I've worked my way back up to the middle class, no silver spoon here.

Now why don't you answer the questions? No one cares about your dog walking clients, everyone has anecdotal stories they can share, they don't mean anything. Since you're obviously having problems scrolling up and reading the questions, I'll repeat them.

In your perfect society everyone would be middle class or what?

Could you tell us roughly what percentage of the "rich and ultra rich" are living off of inherited money?

Why don't you fuck off asshole. I don't walk dogs for a living, I'm doing it as a favor for friends. You do know what "friends' are??

Wow, someone's a little touchy. If you can't take it, don't dish it out, you're the one that started in with the silver spoon bullshit. I was just looking for an answer to my question, which you're still avoiding. I knew you wouldn't answer it, because you're not actually interested in the facts. Come back when you can answer my question and you grow a little thicker skin. When you tell people to "get out in the world and meet a few people" then proceed to talk about the people that live next door to you, you're going to get called on it.

It's obvious to me (despite both your and Blackangst claims to the contrar) that your both trust fund babies.

You know what? I am. Ive admitted it several times on this board. But let me tell you something else...I havent received ONE CENT from my trust. EVER. Trust is from daddy who grew his wealth the old fashioned way-earned it. He and my mom were divorced when I was 6, and mom got custody. Mom during my school days was a nursing student who worked part time tossing pizzas. Sure, dad payed child support, but at the time it was ordered he was just an ordinary engineer and P&G so it was nothing even remotely exorbitant. I grew up POOR. Despite the millions in my trust, I havent received a penny. Go read up on A/B trusts and you'll know why.

So cut your silver spoon bullshit and quit being a douche. My POV on things comes from a guy who came from a poor upbringing, and fought tooth and nail to get to upper middle class living well now. So fuck off with your accusations and contribute something for a change.

I have contributed so fuck off yourself.

Consider this. Two identical tightropes are strung up and time trials are conducted across them. If one of the tightropes has a safety net and the other doesn't which tightrope would you expect to have the fastest times?

I think the answer is obvious.

Nice example, but doesnt apply to me. Maybe it will to someone else.

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Then I guess we'll agree to disagree on who should pay. I just cant figure out why its so unpopular to want your government to meet its citizens halfway, and to instead just expect those that can afford to fund every whim to do so. /boggle

Well Look at the charts above. I have always been one to believe that those who are hungry for it work harder. Why should it be easier when you are rich? Instead their should be drive to try and make more and if you can't oh well that's life.

As a personal example a kid came into my industry with no experience but he was given a chance. Is father had passed away and left him with a sizable fortune (probably not millions but whatever). He totally failed. He was lazy and inept and he doesn't do shit now. These are the basket case wealthy that don't deserve any more then the fact that somebody before them worked hard enough to deserve having spoiled children.

Sure that kid didn't deserve it. Why should you be able to make that judgement? That kid did what he wanted and he lost his fortune. So it's gone. Society won, yaaay....

And the reason the poor want to tax the rich more generally is simply because the rich can afford basic needs and the poor cannot be taxed more and still maintain a living. The poor have no real right to the rich man's money although many will argue that the wealthy man could not have gotten his wealth without the poor man himself. True, but in a similar manner why shouldn't we give all our money to the older generation, they birthed us no?

 

[IGBT]

just think if they decide to leave NY. public assistance junkies and social welfare admin's will be cannibalizing each other.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
Sure that kid didn't deserve it. Why should you be able to make that judgement? That kid did what he wanted and he lost his fortune. So it's gone. Society won, yaaay....

And the reason the poor want to tax the rich more generally is simply because the rich can afford basic needs and the poor cannot be taxed more and still maintain a living. The poor have no real right to the rich man's money although many will argue that the wealthy man could not have gotten his wealth without the poor man himself. True, but in a similar manner why shouldn't we give all our money to the older generation, they birthed us no?

The kid in my story kept his money. He failed in my industry because he didn't have drive.
Anyways as for the rest of your post...whatever. I never said to give all of the riches money to the poor. That's not even an argument. I'm talking about society as a whole and you are talking about one facet of our society that you don't like. If you don't like that one facet (welfare or whatever) then vote for people who will cut that away. I don't care. But don't come in here and say "Yes well we made lots of money because of the stability of this society but we shouldn't give back to that." What if your father grew up in Kenya and had his arm chopped off by some roving band of rebels? You wouldn't be rich. You are protected, your money is protected, your property is protected and your children are protected. You should pay for that. If you don't like it make more money.

 

[dahunan]

Why should the middle class pay higher percent of their money to govt than the than a rich person who makes his/her money because of the middle class

Equal percent.. no breaks becuase you can grease the palms of politicians

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Why should the middle class pay higher percent of their money to govt than the than a rich person who makes his/her money because of the middle class

Equal percent.. no breaks becuase you can grease the palms of politicians

No way could we pay for everything with the low tax rate the middle class pay. No way.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Nice example, but doesnt apply to me. Maybe it will to someone else.

Like it or not, it applies to everyone who has a safety net.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: IGBT
just think if they decide to leave NY. public assistance junkies and social welfare admin's will be cannibalizing each other.

The 'what if they leave' argument is why everyone else has to unite to prevent bidding wars that screw the public and let the rich out of their fair share.

Every time a factory makes two poor countries see which is willing to starve its people worse, every time rich people one place demand lower taxes or they'll leave and set the new low that lets the next city's rich deman theirs are lowered, every time a Delaware offers terribly pro-corporate laws to draw corporations to register in their state over the one they're really based in, the public is screwed. The only real solution is for countries, states, cities, unions, etc. to coordinate their efforts and limit the 'race to the bottom'.

 

[Genx87]

Why did the GDP increase at a faster rate in the 4 previous years?

Increase in Nominal GDP
GDP (in billions of dollars)

1998 - - - $8,747.0
1999 - - - $9,268.4
2000 - - - $9,817.0
2001 - - - $10,128.0
2002 - - - $10,469.6
2003 - - - $10,960.8
2004 - - - $11,685.9

Why dont you include the years further out?

05 - 12,421.9
06 - 13,178.4
07 - 13,807.5
08 - 14,280.7

Looks like solid growth no?

As for the tax information I dont care. Supply siders are dumbasses for trying to pass off the argument we will see larger federal reciepts. They should frame the argument it is a way to stimulate the economy. And deal with the spending issue at our federal level as a seperate issue. Which imo it is.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: JD50


Wow, you are batting a thousand today. The first thing you did was assume that I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, then complain when I make an assumption based on your actual words. You also accused Blackangst of avoiding questions and not giving straight answers, when you've done the exact same thing several times. Now you've turned into an E-tough guy threatening me, awesome. For all I know you could be richer than I am, and probably are, because I'm not anywhere close to being rich. If so, that's great, congratulations on your success or your families success, I don't hold anything against rich people like some of you do. I was born into a middle class family, and after making some silly decisions when I was younger, I've worked my way back up to the middle class, no silver spoon here.

Now why don't you answer the questions? No one cares about your dog walking clients, everyone has anecdotal stories they can share, they don't mean anything. Since you're obviously having problems scrolling up and reading the questions, I'll repeat them.

In your perfect society everyone would be middle class or what?

Could you tell us roughly what percentage of the "rich and ultra rich" are living off of inherited money?

Why don't you fuck off asshole. I don't walk dogs for a living, I'm doing it as a favor for friends. You do know what "friends' are??

Wow, someone's a little touchy. If you can't take it, don't dish it out, you're the one that started in with the silver spoon bullshit. I was just looking for an answer to my question, which you're still avoiding. I knew you wouldn't answer it, because you're not actually interested in the facts. Come back when you can answer my question and you grow a little thicker skin. When you tell people to "get out in the world and meet a few people" then proceed to talk about the people that live next door to you, you're going to get called on it.

It's obvious to me (despite both your and Blackangst claims to the contrar) that your both trust fund babies.

Didn't you just get all pissy about me making assumptions about you? Wow. Anyways, yea, I wish I was a trust fund baby. Unfortunately I'm not. Still refusing to answer a simple question I see.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Nice example, but doesnt apply to me. Maybe it will to someone else.

Like it or not, it applies to everyone who has a safety net.

Well, it doesnt apply to me. My safety net is the one Ive created myself. Luckily Ive put my own money away. I couldnt get my hands on my trust right now if I wanted to. There are no provisions for the B side unless step mom dies. Im no different than you, other than probably I manage my money better than you.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Why did the GDP increase at a faster rate in the 4 previous years?

Increase in Nominal GDP
GDP (in billions of dollars)

1998 - - - $8,747.0
1999 - - - $9,268.4
2000 - - - $9,817.0
2001 - - - $10,128.0
2002 - - - $10,469.6
2003 - - - $10,960.8
2004 - - - $11,685.9

Why dont you include the years further out?

05 - 12,421.9
06 - 13,178.4
07 - 13,807.5
08 - 14,280.7

Looks like solid growth no?

As for the tax information I dont care. Supply siders are dumbasses for trying to pass off the argument we will see larger federal reciepts. They should frame the argument it is a way to stimulate the economy. And deal with the spending issue at our federal level as a seperate issue. Which imo it is.

I didn't want to embarrass you any further ...

% Increase in Nominal GDP - Presidential Term

47,47% Increase - Clinton
41% Increase - Bush

GDP (in billions of dollars)

1993 - - - $6,657.4
1994 - - - $7,072.2
1995 - - - $7,397.7
1996 - - - $7,816.9
1997 - - - $8,304.3
1998 - - - $8,747.0
1999 - - - $9,268.4
2000 - - - $9,817.0

2001 - - - $10,128.0
2002 - - - $10,469.6
2003 - - - $10,960.8
2004 - - - $11,685.9
2005 - - - $12,433.9
2006 - - - $13,194.7
2007 - - - $13,807.5
2008 - - - $14,280.7



Viva La USA !

 

[spidey07]

Clinton enjoyed the marvelous tech boom. Bush inherited the marvelous tech bust. Bush enjoyed the marvelous housing boom, Obama gets to inherit the housing bust.

See how that works?

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Well, it doesnt apply to me. My safety net is the one Ive created myself. Luckily Ive put my own money away. I couldnt get my hands on my trust right now if I wanted to. There are no provisions for the B side unless step mom dies. Im no different than you, other than probably I manage my money better than you.

Dude its ok. Your long term is sweet no matter what. Don't be ashamed you dad was smart and made it happen and now you are set up. That's how it should work. I know when I have kids the little fuckers are going to private schools and they aren't going to be working mundane simpleton jobs. They will be given all the tools needed to succeed and if i am successful enough they will have money waiting for them as well. My earning potential is good enough that if I'm not a moron I could have a sizable amount for them (depending on the financial apocalypse).

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Clinton enjoyed the marvelous tech boom. Bush inherited the marvelous tech bust. Bush enjoyed the marvelous housing boom, Obama gets to inherit the housing bust.

See how that works?

Gen's point was the Bush Tax Cuts provided a boost in his first term. I don't disagree but Slick and the Congress raised taxes early in his term and when it ended passed an annual surplus of $320 billion in the unified budget on to Dubs - while increasing GDP by 15% more.

The tech bust doesn't really compare to the situation we are mired in today ...

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Clinton enjoyed the marvelous tech boom. Bush inherited the marvelous tech bust. Bush enjoyed the marvelous housing boom, Obama gets to inherit the housing bust.

See how that works?

what's the next boom?