Top 1% pays 50% of the taxes.

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

snip

However that doesn't change the point of this thread. The "rich" still pay most of the taxes in this country yet are constantly demonized through the class warefare of some within the Democratic Party.

The poor are demonized too. They are called lazy and worthless and it is said that they waste their money.

But many of them work 50 hours a week doing back breaking labor. Many of them barely earn enough to eat. And a lot of them are tricked into bad debt.

So if the rich are demonized a little too, well, they can have their PR people handle it, and I don't feel too sorry for them.

So what choices did these people (both poor and rich) make when they were growing up? What kind of grades did they make? Did they finish high school? Were they studying or out partying? Did they have kids before they were ready?

I do agree that there are less fortunate people who want to make a better living for themselves and their family and can't catch a lucky break, but there are also people who just want to work the system and live on handouts...

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: davestar


if your brain is even half on, there should be absolutely nothing shocking about these percentages. the only way to owe taxes is to earn money. the only way for 1% of NYC to owe 50% of NYC's taxes is for that 1% to have earned a shit ton of money. the fact that income disparity is so great is the real problem.

So, just how much should everybody make? What's the magic number for everybody to make the same?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: spacejamz

The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Where's that, Dubai, Monaco, Saudi Arabia?

from that entire story, that is the only thing you could comment on???

Ok, nice story, now answer the question.

 

[KentState]

My only complaint with the progressive tax system is that the richest 10% encompass such a wide range of incomes. Someone like myself pays a lot of taxes, receives minimal services from the government, and doesn't have enough deductions to knock my tax obligation down. There should be no reason why the tax percent doubles from $32k to $78k for a single filer.

 

[nealh]

You know what I want to know is what your income was last yr from those who are posting

I work damn hard to earn money..I spent 13yrs getting educated. I was 32 yrs old before I had job making any money.

I pay more in taxes than most of you make....I dont have fancy lawyers and I dont cheat on my taxes...but I fed up listening to you guys whine I dont pay enough

I would bet my life all of you here who are bitching want to be wealthy someday ...there was a great poll take about taxes. They asked if people thought the rich pay enough in taxes..51% said NO
They asked the same people if they wanted to be wealthy and guess what they said yes...then they asked do you think you should pay more taxes if your were wealthy....guess the answer...NO

I have no problem paying a fair rate on my taxes...I cant stand the way the idiots in congress waste money with no care in the world

I probaby pay more sales tax than most do as well....I spend more...so I bet the wealthy still pay more sales taxes too....

Maybe the super rich(what they hell you define as rich) have ways to shelter money..but I refuse to go to jail to cheat on my taxes or stretch the line

I cant see how the wealthy paying more taxes will help any of you...do think Congress who currently gets more tax dollars than ever before needs more money to waste. Do you think they will get more fiscally responsible
Yes Congress get more tax dollars than ever before....less loop holes, lower rate and higher % of people paying their taxes and not cheating

I only hope I am there to hear you people when you make more money and need to pay higher taxes and see the idiots throw the money after sh*t

BTW I am not rich....I dont spend beyond my means, pay all my bills...if I cant afford it now, I dont get it. I have a home loan and monthly CC debt paid off every month(got love reward programs)

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: spacejamz

The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Where's that, Dubai, Monaco, Saudi Arabia?

from that entire story, that is the only thing you could comment on???

Ok, nice story, now answer the question.

Not sure what the connection is between the places you listed...is there some special tax breaks for the superwealthy there? If there is , then I guess the answer to your question is yes.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: Budmantom
It's not really a problem work harder, smarter and earn more.

Pull yourself up by the bootstraps and remember you are either the solution or the problem, I'm sure you are the problem but I'm speaking generally.

Ah, a realistic answer. Never mind that for every "Pursuit of Happyness" story, there's a George W. Bush, son of a successful businessman and President, grandson of a railroad baron, who was able to float through life wanting for nothing because his family was wealthy before he was ever born. For every kid from the ghetto who was able to get an education and a nice scholarship to a great university, there's a Paris Hilton who has literally zero marketable talents, but shitloads of money because daddy owns some hotels.

The "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality is a good one to have; it's healthy to want to succeed on your merits. But so much wealth is inherited and passed from one generation to the next in families that I think you can't discount the effect this has. The Rothschild family has been wealthy beyond belief for centuries, and it will continue for centuries more. Their offspring will never have to have any desire for success because they were born rich. And that's where things break down.

I'm not saying inheritance is a bad thing, don't get me wrong. But don't act like every wealthy person on the planet got there by the merits of their actions, because that, quite frankly, is pure bullshit.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: Budmantom
It crazy how we demonize the rich yet they are the ones that keep this country running.

I wonder how far behind the rest of the country is.



NY Post

does thinking for yourself hurt so much that you need Rush to supply your talking points?



if your brain is even half on, there should be absolutely nothing shocking about these percentages. the only way to owe taxes is to earn money. the only way for 1% of NYC to owe 50% of NYC's taxes is for that 1% to have earned a shit ton of money. the fact that income disparity is so great is the real problem.

It's not really a problem work harder, smarter and earn more.

Pull yourself up by the bootstraps and remember you are either the solution or the problem, I'm sure you are the problem but I'm speaking generally.

Right bud. Only conservatives are smart and hard working. If one supports liberal policies, he must be a leech on the economy. In light of that, isn't it weird that I have liberal friends and family in that 1% in NYC and that I, myself, am up-to-date on my mortgage payments and have no other debt?

Properly enacted liberal policies stimulate growth and boost everyone. "Properly" enacted conservative policies stimulate growth on the high end of the income spectrum at the expense of the low end. That's unsustainable.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com...record-and-rising.html

Your "it's every man for himself" policy is not something that can be applied to the world's largest economy. You're living in a fantasy world if you think it can be.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: Budmantom
It's not really a problem work harder, smarter and earn more.

Pull yourself up by the bootstraps and remember you are either the solution or the problem, I'm sure you are the problem but I'm speaking generally.

Ah, a realistic answer. Never mind that for every "Pursuit of Happyness" story, there's a George W. Bush, son of a successful businessman and President, grandson of a railroad baron, who was able to float through life wanting for nothing because his family was wealthy before he was ever born. For every kid from the ghetto who was able to get an education and a nice scholarship to a great university, there's a Paris Hilton who has literally zero marketable talents, but shitloads of money because daddy owns some hotels.

The "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality is a good one to have; it's healthy to want to succeed on your merits. But so much wealth is inherited and passed from one generation to the next in families that I think you can't discount the effect this has. The Rothschild family has been wealthy beyond belief for centuries, and it will continue for centuries more. Their offspring will never have to have any desire for success because they were born rich. And that's where things break down.

I'm not saying inheritance is a bad thing, don't get me wrong. But don't act like every wealthy person on the planet got there by the merits of their actions, because that, quite frankly, is pure bullshit.

You might want to look at some stats. The majority of the top 5/10% is all new money, not family money. I've read many articles about it, I'll see if I can find something.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: spacejamz

The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Where's that, Dubai, Monaco, Saudi Arabia?

from that entire story, that is the only thing you could comment on???

Ok, nice story, now answer the question.

Not sure what the connection is between the places you listed...is there some special tax breaks for the superwealthy there? If there is , then I guess the answer to your question is yes.

So according to you if they are taxed too much though not enough to really eat away at their fortune they'd move to places where the taxes are less but are is the freedoms and culture? I don't see this exodus happening soon.

 

[davestar]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: davestar


if your brain is even half on, there should be absolutely nothing shocking about these percentages. the only way to owe taxes is to earn money. the only way for 1% of NYC to owe 50% of NYC's taxes is for that 1% to have earned a shit ton of money. the fact that income disparity is so great is the real problem.

So, just how much should everybody make? What's the magic number for everybody to make the same?

You want everyone to make the same? What are you, a communist?

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: chess9
Show me the tax returns and employment contracts of the top 1% and I'll show you a large group of tax cheats, overpaid swindlers, fat cats eating out of the corporate dining room and off the fat of the company, and so much more. I'll bet their actual tax rates are lower than the average Americans'.

I worked in a tax law firm for two years (I'd aced my tax courses in law school so they thought they'd give me a shot even though I didn't have an LLM.). Anyway, I never saw so many tax avoidance schemes in my life. LOL! They were paying the senior partner $200 an hour in 1973 for a reason....

The naivete on this board is beyond astounding....

-Robert

I am a law student, and THIS.

If you don't understand and believe what chess9 just posted, you are either 1) stupid/uneducated or 2) honestly, really fucking poor compared to me, the people I work for, and those I grew up with.

Oh and just to be clear, I am not talking about people making $100k a year. I am talking about people who are RICH. People who send their kids to private school for 15 years and don't worry about it for a minute.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: davestar

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: davestar


if your brain is even half on, there should be absolutely nothing shocking about these percentages. the only way to owe taxes is to earn money. the only way for 1% of NYC to owe 50% of NYC's taxes is for that 1% to have earned a shit ton of money. the fact that income disparity is so great is the real problem.

So, just how much should everybody make? What's the magic number for everybody to make the same?

You want everyone to make the same? What are you, a communist?

Dave,

It sounds like someone is a communist.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: KentState
My only complaint with the progressive tax system is that the richest 10% encompass such a wide range of incomes. Someone like myself pays a lot of taxes, receives minimal services from the government, and doesn't have enough deductions to knock my tax obligation down. There should be no reason why the tax percent doubles from $32k to $78k for a single filer.

I agree with this 110%.

And I think we should reduce taxes paid by people making something around $78k a year. But to do that, we have to raise taxes on people making 1 mil a year. And most of the people on this board are crapping themselves over that. And somehow I doubt most of them make that much...

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644
I noticed that none of the repugs like replying to my posts.

Because your posts are nothing more than class warfare and jealousy.

The reason the top 10% of wage earners have 80% of the wealth is because they want to grow their money and increase their net worth. That is not a bad thing. It also includes the top 1% of earners whose net worth grows largely year over year.

That is not a bad thing. Nothing is preventing anybody from increasing their wealth or becoming one of those evil top 10% of wage earners.

I agree its not a bad thing, but will you admit one thing?

The rich could not possibly be rich without the system and institutions created by the politicians they get elected and the people who work in their call centers and factories.

The rich get HUGE opportunities possible only in a hybrid capitalist/socialist system like the USA, where government subsidies and special rules ranging from IP laws to criminal laws make it all possible.

The rich OWE it to the rest to pay a reasonable -- and yes large -- share back into that system.

I would tend to argue that top 1% should pay back to the system, because it's in their best interest. Without middle class you end up with a society like in columbia, where you have to drive around in armored vehicles with machine gun escort.

That and the marginal utility of cash is decreasing - $100 to Bill Gates is worth a lot less than someone flipping burgers, which is why progressive rate taxes make sense.

Your post reflects sanity, IMO.

The only thing that really bugs me at the moment is that they don't look at your salary adjusted for cost of living. For example it is really easy to make 6 figures year or two out of school in NYC, but that doesn't make you rich by any means given the cost of living (shared apartments $1400+/mo etc. )

Also I think the more educated you get, the more you see that progressive taxation makes sense, given the utility of money and all.

At the same thing, though, it's natural and expect people to avoid taxes - it's in their best interest to do so. Good tax policy should work to minimize avoidance, it would be foolish not too (progressive capital gains FTW).

 

[winnar111]

If it was possible to tax the rich the way liberals like, they would have done it to Kerry's wife.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: halik


The only thing that really bugs me at the moment is that they don't look at your salary adjusted for cost of living. For example it is really easy to make 6 figures year or two out of school in NYC, but that doesn't make you rich by any means given the cost of living (shared apartments $1400+/mo etc. )

I see your point and would normally agree. But taxes already factor in cost of living at the state and local level. To adjust FEDERAL taxes based on location or state would most likely be unconstitutional.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: spacejamz

The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Where's that, Dubai, Monaco, Saudi Arabia?

from that entire story, that is the only thing you could comment on???

Ok, nice story, now answer the question.

Not sure what the connection is between the places you listed...is there some special tax breaks for the superwealthy there? If there is , then I guess the answer to your question is yes.

So according to you if they are taxed too much though not enough to really eat away at their fortune they'd move to places where the taxes are less but are is the freedoms and culture? I don't see this exodus happening soon.

look, the whole point of the story was that one person got the biggest tax break because he paid the biggest amount of tax. The other nine were angry because their tax breaks were not as big dollar wise (hey wait, that sounds like some of the people in this thread, what a coincidence)...

Really, that is all to this story...

if you really want to get into some debates about this 'story', then just google 'barstool economics' and join the fun in the comment sections of any the pages you find.

as I said earlier:
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: KentState
My only complaint with the progressive tax system is that the richest 10% encompass such a wide range of incomes. Someone like myself pays a lot of taxes, receives minimal services from the government, and doesn't have enough deductions to knock my tax obligation down. There should be no reason why the tax percent doubles from $32k to $78k for a single filer.

Sure there is. Being a successful lawyer, doctor, engineer, or other educated professional means you are 'rich', and Pelosi and Obama are going to come after you.

 

[JSt0rm]

you guys do realize that top 1% earners probably make up more of the population of nyc then anywhere else?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: spacejamz
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

Oh it was a very simple story, very easy to understand, I just don't see how it applies to the Rich in this country as their wealth keeps increasing despite the tax some deem as unfair. In faq=ct it seems to me that it's those who idolize the wealthy but have no hope of ever becoming wealthy themselves like Budmanton, not the wealthy themselves, who are doing most of the griping about the taxes.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: halik


The only thing that really bugs me at the moment is that they don't look at your salary adjusted for cost of living. For example it is really easy to make 6 figures year or two out of school in NYC, but that doesn't make you rich by any means given the cost of living (shared apartments $1400+/mo etc. )

I see your point and would normally agree. But taxes already factor in cost of living at the state and local level. To adjust FEDERAL taxes based on location or state would most likely be unconstitutional.

How so? You already have cost of living index, just divide gross by the index based on the zip code you file from (and make sure it's commutable distance from your office, so someone with a second home doesn't claim the higher one).

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: KentState
My only complaint with the progressive tax system is that the richest 10% encompass such a wide range of incomes. Someone like myself pays a lot of taxes, receives minimal services from the government, and doesn't have enough deductions to knock my tax obligation down. There should be no reason why the tax percent doubles from $32k to $78k for a single filer.

Sure there is. Being a successful lawyer, doctor, engineer, or other educated professional means you are 'rich', and Pelosi and Obama are going to come after you.

You can be a "successful" lawyer and make $90k a year and I don't think you should be taxed that much, and neither does Obama.

You can be a "successful" lawyer and make $5 million a year between your job and your investments, and I think that guy should be taxed a whole hell of a lot. Yea. Largely because if it weren't for the government and all the small guys at the bottom, his job wouldn't even exist.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: KentState
My only complaint with the progressive tax system is that the richest 10% encompass such a wide range of incomes. Someone like myself pays a lot of taxes, receives minimal services from the government, and doesn't have enough deductions to knock my tax obligation down. There should be no reason why the tax percent doubles from $32k to $78k for a single filer.

Sure there is. Being a successful lawyer, doctor, engineer, or other educated professional means you are 'rich', and Pelosi and Obama are going to come after you.

You can be a "successful" lawyer and make $90k a year and I don't think you should be taxed that much, and neither does Obama.

You can be a "successful" lawyer and make $5 million a year between your job and your investments, and I think that guy should be taxed a whole hell of a lot. Yea. Largely because if it weren't for the government and all the small guys at the bottom, his job wouldn't even exist.

Is that why people who make $90k-200k a year are ineligible for Obama's bonanza of tax 'credits'?

And who says rich people cannot exist without the government?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Deleted member 4644

Originally posted by: chess9
Show me the tax returns and employment contracts of the top 1% and I'll show you a large group of tax cheats, overpaid swindlers, fat cats eating out of the corporate dining room and off the fat of the company, and so much more. I'll bet their actual tax rates are lower than the average Americans'.

I worked in a tax law firm for two years (I'd aced my tax courses in law school so they thought they'd give me a shot even though I didn't have an LLM.). Anyway, I never saw so many tax avoidance schemes in my life. LOL! They were paying the senior partner $200 an hour in 1973 for a reason....

The naivete on this board is beyond astounding....

-Robert

I am a law student, and THIS.

If you don't understand and believe what chess9 just posted, you are either 1) stupid/uneducated or 2) honestly, really fucking poor compared to me, the people I work for, and those I grew up with.

Oh and just to be clear, I am not talking about people making $100k a year. I am talking about people who are RICH. People who send their kids to private school for 15 years and don't worry about it for a minute.

It's good to see some people posting the truth.

What we have is a failure of democracy - the public unable to recognize its interests.