Discussion Too many VMs, probably

[mikeymikec]

I'm a long-time Windows user turned Linux user for enough years that it's probably a permanent change, however I have some ties to Windows that are unlikely to change at any point soon. I am aware of WINE and I use it for one app in Linux but I don't trust it for say MS Access, and I've tried Xara 10 with it but it failed to run. I have a few VMs set up in Linux:

Windows 2000: I rarely use this.
Windows XP: My copy of Microsoft Access 2000 is installed here, I prefer it to newer versions when doing Access development work.
Windows 7: My most often-used VM. My copy of Office 2007 is installed here, as is Xara 10 (I use this for advert design mostly), a paid-for copy.
Windows 10: I initially used this for some experimentation, since then I bought a very cheap copy of Office Pro Plus 2021 which is handy to refer to as a "modern" copy of MSO, but also I like the 'Quick Assist' app that comes with Win10/11 for quick bits of casual remote access work on customers' computers without licensing worries (e.g. TeamViewer).

One of my concerns is the speed of data backups. With larger OS footprints in VMs, the longer the backup takes to run, and every time I run one of these VMs then its data file will have been updated. Another concern is whether I'm holding onto an old version of Windows without good reason, and to be fair a newer version of Windows is more likely to be of use to me going forward.

Archiving/deleting the Win2k VM is a no-brainer, maybe. I suppose if it just sits there doing nothing then it's not being transferred to the backup up each time?

I could get rid of the XP VM and install Access 2000 alongside another copy of Office in one of the other VMs, but I guess my concern probably originally was creating some kind of FrankenAccessStein setup where database applications work on my computer but no-one else's (or maybe vice versa).

My Win7 VM is my preferred Windows environment partly because Win7 is my favourite Windows version and partly because it boots faster than any of the other VMs.

Migrating stuff to at least the Win10 VM (or even make a Win11 VM so I have a Win11 setup easily to hand if a customer rings me with a "where's this option" quick question) makes some sense, consolidation etc, but it is a bit slower than the Win7 VM.

Thoughts?

 

[manly]

I backup select data files; I don't bother backing up entire VMs. But if I had a particularly valuable VM instance, then I'd perhaps copy it annually (or snapshot it).

I'm no good at organizing and deleting files, and am happy to upgrade storage as the need arises. Capacity seems to increase fast enough that cost is rarely a major concern. Glancing at my root filesystem, it has 1.3TB allocated and is only 37% full. (The remainder of the SSD belongs to Win10 and is barely utilized.)

I wouldn't consider deleting the oldest VMs because their footprint is so comparatively small. But as suggested above, I would exclude VM images from any kind of incremental backup tasks. The point of VMs (and especially containers) is that you can have as many as you want/need, with minimal guilt.

An old cliche applies: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

What do you use for virtualization, KVM or VMware or?

 

[mikeymikec]

@manly VirtualBox.

There's no personal data in any of the VMs (key folders are shared from the host OS), it's the guest OS configuration + apps software access that's of interest. I also have a mild concern about product keys for certain Windows versions especially since MS cracked down on key re-usage.

 

[Ken g6]

Have you tried open-source alternatives to some of these software packages? LibreOffice is the obvious one to try first.

How is Access 2000 even useful these days? Are you using it internally only? If not, how are customers using it? I think the modern open-source version would be Sqlite accessed by a web app bundled by something like Electron into a desktop/mobile app.

Since you're into old software, have you looked at the old, open-sourced Linux version of Xara?

Xara Xtreme LX - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mikeymikec]

@Ken g6 I've been on OpenOffice then LibreOffice full-time for over twenty years My copy of Office 2007 and 2021 were both bought cheaply and are really just "potentially handy" (e.g. playing with customers' Outlook PST files on occasion). I use Access for my own company database application, it's worked well for many years. I've made a start on learning PHP and my customer db is available via a locked website just in case I need to look up some contact details when away from home, when I have more time I'll brush up on my skills some more, but I would be surprised if I ever made it as quick and easy to use as the Access db is. I've developed a few such applications for customers with Access too and there's one in the works at the moment.

I previously looked into the Linux version of Xara but I think I gave up on the notion of even attempting to install it when I noted when it had been last updated.

 

[Ken g6]

I previously looked into the Linux version of Xara but I think I gave up on the notion of even attempting to install it when I noted when it had been last updated.

So you won't install an app from 2008 because it's too old, so you keep using the software from 2000 instead?

But it's true you should probably learn AI for advert design these days. Probably Krita with AI plugin, or perhaps InvokeAI.

 

[mikeymikec]

So you won't install an app from 2008 because it's too old, so you keep using the software from 2000 instead?

Getting software to work on a particular Linux distro that hasn't been designed for that distro/version is something I've tried and failed to do a few times before. On the other hand, installing Access 2000 on pretty much any version of Windows NT is unlikely to be a problem.

But it's true you should probably learn AI for advert design these days. Probably Krita with AI plugin, or perhaps InvokeAI.

I'm generally of the opinion that AI can take a long walk off a short pier. If I'm going to outsource my ad design, I'll happily pay for a human to do it.

 

[manly]

@manly VirtualBox.

There's no personal data in any of the VMs (key folders are shared from the host OS), it's the guest OS configuration + apps software access that's of interest. I also have a mild concern about product keys for certain Windows versions especially since MS cracked down on key re-usage.

Like I said, I wouldn't bother to do incremental backups of such VMs. Either snapshot it when you have a perfect guest system state you want to protect, or an annual copy will suffice.

 

[Indus]

I'm curious.. I used windows 10 this week for something I wanted to do in photoshop and it felt really strange and clunky using windows 10 again (after 3 months with linux).

I'm curious.. I was using oracle vm to test linux in windows before using it.

Is there a VM I can use in linux to install windows 10 and use photoshop from there?

I still haven't mastered gimp yet. When I do, this need will be greatly reduced.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm curious.. I used windows 10 this week for something I wanted to do in photoshop and it felt really strange and clunky using windows 10 again (after 3 months with linux).

I'm curious.. I was using oracle vm to test linux in windows before using it.

Is there a VM I can use in linux to install windows 10 and use photoshop from there?

I still haven't mastered gimp yet. When I do, this need will be greatly reduced.

Virtualbox works for me. I don't do anything that needs graphics hardware acceleration though.

 

[lxskllr]

I'd try to streamline, and deep freeze some versions, only bringing them out for extraordinary circumstances. Win2kpro is great, and is largely a drop in replacement for XP. Also, no key check. You can easily burn it down and rebuild it without drm hassles.

Win7? Meh... It's out of support. If you don't seriously need it, it's just taking up room. Since you support windows, it makes more sense to me to keep the latest version, and use it for all your windows needs. That way you have more familiarity when you're doing support for others. Whether you like it or not, you need to know it, and the best way to know it is to use it.