"Too Clean"

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=20260

Using antibacterial soaps with triclosan excessively can cause immune system problems in those under 18

Researchers at the University of Michigan have discovered that an overexposure to triclosan in young people and an overexposure to Bisphenol A in adults can have negative health effects on the human body.

Allison Aiello, study leader and associate professor at the U-M School of Public Health, along with Erin Rees Clayton, co-author of the study at the U-M School of Public Health, have found that triclosan, which is found in antibacterial soaps, may cause allergies in young people while Bisphenol A, which is found in most plastics, can harm the adult immune system.

Previous research associated with triclosan and Bisphenol A has been conducted on animal models, but this is the first study to show how both toxicants influence human function.

Triclosan and Bisphenol A belong in a class of environmental toxicants called endocrine-disrupting compounds (EDCs) and can imitate or affect hormones causing negative health risks in humans. Bisphenol A can be found in plastics and protective linings in food cans, and triclosan can be found in antibacterial soaps, medical devices, toothpastes, pens and diaper bags.

The U-M researchers came to the conclusion that both triclosan and Bisphenol A can negatively affect the human body by utilizing data from the 2003-2006 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. Aiello and Rees Clayton compared cytomegalovirus (CMV) antibody levels and diagnosis of allergies/hay fever with urinary Bisphenol A and triclosan in a sample that consisted of U.S. adults and children over the age of six.

The results showed that people over the age of 18 with higher levels of Bisphenol A had increased CMV antibody levels. Rees Clayton said that this indicates that the person's "cell-mediated immune system" may not be working correctly.

In addition, Aiello and Rees Clayton found that those under the age of 18 with high levels of triclosan had an increased risk of developing allergies or hay fever.

"The triclosan findings in the younger age groups may support the 'hygiene hypothesis,' which maintains living in very clean and hygienic environments may impact our exposure to micro-organisms that are beneficial for development of the immune system," said Aiello.

Aiello also noted that people can be too clean. Using an excessive amount of antibacterial soaps with triclosan during childhood can change the way our immune systems develop by altering the micro-organisms we're normally exposed to.

Another finding showed that Bisphenol A exposure depends on age. Those over 18 who had higher Bisphenol A levels also had high CMV levels, but for those under 18, the opposite occurred. Researchers believe this means that the timing, quantity and length of exposure determines how the immune system is influenced by Bisphenol A.

The only issue with this study is that it measured exposure and disease at the same time, which shows only part of the overall picture.

"It is possible, for example, that individuals who have an allergy are more hygienic because of their condition, and that the relationship we observed is, therefore, not casual or is an example of reverse causation," said Aiello.

The U-M researchers hope to use this study to continue learning the long-term effects of triclosan and Bisphenol A in humans to see if they can develop a "causal relationship."

No sh!t. Gosh, how did we humans manage to survive before Lysol and their ilk came along with a sanitizing wipe/spray for everything and before bottles of hand sanitizer were found every 10 feet. :rolleyes:

I suspect in 15 years or so someone will come out with a plastic suit on which fretful parents will spend any amount of money that will effectively turn their kids into "bubble boys" and girls.

I know it hurts, but just *try* some common sense, people.. you'll be better off.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,936
3,915
136
Look at all the ridiculous things kids are allergic to these days. There's your clue.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
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Antibacterials are all about appropriateness. In a hospital where people are severely immune compromised then proper hands washing is imperative and one of the biggest preventive measures you can take to keep things from spreading.

In the rest of the world? You are largely doing yourself a disservice. We build immune systems by exposure. All this hysteria is doing is reducing our systems while making the germs more resistant.

Cliffs: rubbing some dirt on it is better than lathering up in neosporin
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
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Big fucking duh. I've been saying this for years when my wife was trying to bring antibacterial soap and hand sanetizer into our home; I would not let her as that stuff is terrible. It's too weak to do anything and just ends up making the bugs stronger. That was my theory anyway, not sure if it's true or not. :D

KT
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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I blame my mom for my shitty immune system, she never breastfed me. Outside of that she wasn't over protective at all with this kind of crap. Hell I had to wait a week to get a broken wrist checked cause she thought I was being a pussy when I was 13 lol.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Antibacterials are all about appropriateness. In a hospital where people are severely immune compromised then proper hands washing is imperative and one of the biggest preventive measures you can take to keep things from spreading.

In the rest of the world? You are largely doing yourself a disservice. We build immune systems by exposure. All this hysteria is doing is reducing our systems while making the germs more resistant.

Cliffs: rubbing some dirt on it is better than lathering up in neosporin

I'd rather deal with the neosporin than staph thanks though. I'm not big on the anti-bacterial thing and I'm very liberal with my 3 second rule, but rubbing dirt into a wound is fucking retarded. Staph is one of the worst fucking bugs you can get not to mention the infections are extremely painful, I know from experience.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
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I'd rather deal with the neosporin than staph thanks though. I'm not big on the anti-bacterial thing and I'm very liberal with my 3 second rule, but rubbing dirt into a wound is fucking retarded. Staph is one of the worst fucking bugs you can get not to mention the infections are extremely painful, I know from experience.

I think he was being facetious. Either way, I think the point is that you can go to far the other way too. My grandmother used to bring her kids to "sick parties" where they would have their kids play with their neighbors kids when they got sick with something. That's a terrible fucking idea. I'll eat stuff that falls on my floor, but if there's any visible dirt on it I wash it off.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Look at all the ridiculous things kids are allergic to these days. There's your clue.

Allergies aren't new; spending mad amounts of money to keep people with severe allergies alive is new.

Many species of animals have random allergies. We're the only species that has tried to keep an unnaturally clean environment surrounding ourselves - thus, other animals should be proof enough.

Most allergies do not threaten an individual's existence; however, the ones with serious allergies would have simply died. Now those people are not only surviving, but breeding. Allergies aren't 100% passed down through genetics, but the potential is there.

Also, there's the notion that our genetics are an absolute mess. We have have countless generations of breeding between individuals, who, when regarding nature - aren't exactly carrying quality genes.
I'm not trying to get into the morality debate of all this - they tried that once, and forced sterlizations were actually fairly normal - and then the Nazi's took that idea, ran it into the ground, and the morality fiends went nuts and cleaned up other nations who kept it more, well.. sane(?).

That is, however, not to say that these various chemicals are without problems. Those problems, as stated in the OP, are blatantly obvious anymore - but some still love living in an oblivious state.

But the concept of allergies can't be blamed on any single issue: they are a fact of nature. Can they be made worse or more common thanks to certain variables? Perhaps.
 

gimmewhitecastles

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2005
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Antibacterials are all about appropriateness. In a hospital where people are severely immune compromised then proper hands washing is imperative and one of the biggest preventive measures you can take to keep things from spreading.

In the rest of the world? You are largely doing yourself a disservice. We build immune systems by exposure. All this hysteria is doing is reducing our systems while making the germs more resistant.

Cliffs: rubbing some dirt on it is better than lathering up in neosporin

sounds kinky ;)
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,936
3,915
136
But the concept of allergies can't be blamed on any single issue: they are a fact of nature. Can they be made worse or more common thanks to certain variables? Perhaps.

I thought I'd read somewhere that absent real pathogens, the immune system tends to lock onto more innocuous targets. People with severe allergies now living to reproduce is likely a factor also.
 

angminas

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2006
3,331
26
91
It's oh-so-easy to make fun of it today. We live in the cleanest, safest environments in history. Have you have ever had to watch someone die from influenza, or leprosy, or tuberculosis?

You want common sense? Common sense says, if you discover a way to kill and control these germs which have ruined billions of lives, TRY IT. You really think allergies are worse than how things used to be? You really think nearly anyone could have foreseen all the consequences, and they're stupid if they didn't?

Some will say similar things about vaccines. Of those, how many have watched a child die from diptheria or whooping cough? How many have raised a child crippled by polio?

Don't act like things are worse now, or like everyone should have known. It doesn't make you look smart at all. Promise.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Big fucking duh. I've been saying this for years when my wife was trying to bring antibacterial soap and hand sanetizer into our home; I would not let her as that stuff is terrible. It's too weak to do anything and just ends up making the bugs stronger. That was my theory anyway, not sure if it's true or not. :D

KT

Same here. I'm not fithy or anything but have no problem eating BBQ w/o washing hands. I even eaten after dressing an animal, filleting fish what ever just wipe slime off with a towel and eat.

Back when I took microbiology in college all those kids went fanatic about microbes I never changed knowing key strong immune system was exposure. Whole body is like this. Strong health? wear body out on track or in gym. etc.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
op, are you retarded or something? it has been a known fact for quite a while that using antibacterial soaps etc restrict the immunities your immune system would normally build. this is far from new news...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
It's oh-so-easy to make fun of it today. We live in the cleanest, safest environments in history. Have you have ever had to watch someone die from influenza, or leprosy, or tuberculosis?

You want common sense? Common sense says, if you discover a way to kill and control these germs which have ruined billions of lives, TRY IT. You really think allergies are worse than how things used to be? You really think nearly anyone could have foreseen all the consequences, and they're stupid if they didn't?

Some will say similar things about vaccines. Of those, how many have watched a child die from diptheria or whooping cough? How many have raised a child crippled by polio?

Don't act like things are worse now, or like everyone should have known. It doesn't make you look smart at all. Promise.

Obviously stuff you don't have antigens for will kill you. Science and vaccines has it's place but paranoia really doesn't is all this is saying.
 

angminas

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2006
3,331
26
91
By the way, I don't mean to say there's nothing wrong with current usage of triclosan and the like. I just mean, from the perspective of when it was introduced, it was definitely worth a try, as opposed to what's in the OP.
 
Last edited:

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
It's oh-so-easy to make fun of it today. We live in the cleanest, safest environments in history. Have you have ever had to watch someone die from influenza, or leprosy, or tuberculosis?

1. People die from influenza all the time

2. You are talking about vaccines now, which is not what OP is about.
 

palswim

Golden Member
Nov 23, 2003
1,049
0
71
www.palswim.net
So, I have no problems staying away from most soaps and the like. But, what alternatives do I have to toothpaste? Just chew lots of gum with Xylitol?