Tony Snow avoided Chris Matthews question.

[techs]

Chris Matthews asked Tony Snow if the President had the authority to military action against Iran without approval from Congress.
Tony Snow kept repeating the President knows he needs the support of the people and Congress when he chooses to take military action.




Hmm. This raises interesting questions. Could a President who wanted to start a war go ahead and conduct a military action that will precipitate a war?
In other words, if Bush assembled a large fleet off the coast of Iran and sent American planes over Teheran and the Iranians attacked us wouldn't that be a declaration of war?

Or if Bush or any President were to just go ahead and bomb Iran without any Congressional legislation authorizing it (in the absence of an Iranian attack on US forces) would it be within the Presidents legal power? Wouldn't that be a de facto declaration of war which is strictly stated in the Constitution is the perogative of the Congress?

 

[sandorski]

US planes flying into Iranian Airspace could be construed as a declaration of war, nevermind over Tehran.

 

[LcarsSystem]

Yes, in fact we raided the Iranian embassy in Iraq today and many believe Bush is trying to bait Iran into taking a hostile action so we have an adequate excuse to go to war.:disgust:

 

[catnap1972]

He's desperate to start one war (he thinks) he can win.

And if not, oh well...sucks to be you (everyone else on the planet)

 

[ProfJohn]

Clinton took military action in Kosovo without the approval of congress. And many other Presidents have done the same.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn:
Clinton took military action in Kosovo without the approval of congress. And many other Presidents have done the same.

How the bloody fsck do you find the balls to fall back to drag up that tired old "drag Clinton into it" dodge? How many of those presidential actions cost the lives of over 3,000 American troops, left tens of thousands more horribly wounded, disfigured and handicapped, and left possibly hundreds of thousands others dead and wounded? :| :| :|

Vietnam comes to mind, and that was due to the same kind of Presidential stupidity and arrogance.

You have no shame. You have no humanity. Get a grip on reality. :roll:

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: techs
the President knows he needs the support of the people and Congress when he chooses to take military action.

You say that is what Snow said. Your own quote, the basis of this topic, is the answer. Of course when you?re in an ideological war, there?s never a correct answer from your enemy, you just keep spinning to make them look as evil as suits your purposes.

Thus we enter into your questions.

Hmm. This raises interesting questions. Could a President who wanted to start a war go ahead and conduct a military action that will precipitate a war?
In other words, if Bush assembled a large fleet off the coast of Iran and sent American planes over Teheran and the Iranians attacked us wouldn't that be a declaration of war?

You presume we?re actively working to make a war. You presume, as you always do, that this country is the evil and it?s your mandate to work against us. The radicals holding nuclear weapons in twenty years love your support today in neutralizing this country prior to fulfilling their sworn vow to kill us.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: techs
Chris Matthews asked Tony Snow if the President had the authority to military action against Iran without approval from Congress.
Tony Snow kept repeating the President knows he needs the support of the people and Congress when he chooses to take military action.




Hmm. This raises interesting questions. Could a President who wanted to start a war go ahead and conduct a military action that will precipitate a war?
In other words, if Bush assembled a large fleet off the coast of Iran and sent American planes over Teheran and the Iranians attacked us wouldn't that be a declaration of war?

Or if Bush or any President were to just go ahead and bomb Iran without any Congressional legislation authorizing it (in the absence of an Iranian attack on US forces) would it be within the Presidents legal power? Wouldn't that be a de facto declaration of war which is strictly stated in the Constitution is the perogative of the Congress?

Bush could bomb Iran for the next 2 years and wouldn't need approval from Congress. He only needs approval to put troops on the ground for more than 3 months.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem
Yes, in fact we raided the Iranian embassy in Iraq today and many believe Bush is trying to bait Iran into taking a hostile action so we have an adequate excuse to go to war.:disgust:

Umm, the Iranian embassy wasn't raided. The place that actually was raided didn't even have diplomatic protections.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn:
Clinton took military action in Kosovo without the approval of congress. And many other Presidents have done the same.

How the bloody fsck do you find the balls to fall back to drag up that tired old "drag Clinton into it" dodge? How many of those presidential actions cost the lives of over 3,000 American troops, left tens of thousands more horribly wounded, disfigured and handicapped, and left possibly hundreds of thousands others dead and wounded? :| :| :|

Vietnam comes to mind, and that was due to the same kind of Presidential stupidity and arrogance.

You have no shame. You have no humanity. Get a grip on reality. :roll:

He's not saying that Clinton did the wrong thing, he's just saying Presidents have the power to do so if they wish. Learn to comprehend what you read before you start some stupid diatribe.

 

[Jhhnn]

ProfJohn is unfortunately correct- the War Powers Act gives the President such authority.

Fortunately, no previous president has blundered as badly as in Iraq, with Reagan quickly withdrawing from Lebanon and Clinton from Somalia before they got in too deep. Historically, Congress has been willing to allow the CinC a lot of leeway, so long as he's winning... Taking unauthorized action against Iran would likely invoke a Constitutional crisis of Impeachment... Not like Panama, Haiti, or Grenada, for example... each a sure thing in its own way.

Unfortunately, that's entirely possible given the profound disconnect from reality in the Bush Admin...

 

[kage69]

Gulf of Tonkin v2.0, coming up?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn:
Clinton took military action in Kosovo without the approval of congress. And many other Presidents have done the same.

How the bloody fsck do you find the balls to fall back to drag up that tired old "drag Clinton into it" dodge? How many of those presidential actions cost the lives of over 3,000 American troops, left tens of thousands more horribly wounded, disfigured and handicapped, and left possibly hundreds of thousands others dead and wounded? :| :| :|

Vietnam comes to mind, and that was due to the same kind of Presidential stupidity and arrogance.

You have no shame. You have no humanity. Get a grip on reality. :roll:

He's not saying that Clinton did the wrong thing, he's just saying Presidents have the power to do so if they wish. Learn to comprehend what you read before you start some stupid diatribe.
Harvey.....things look bad for you...jump[ing to way too many conclusions!

 

[WHAMPOM]

Why? Why? Why do poofjohn hate Clinton so? 'cause Kosovo was a success and Bush has NONE yet. And of course there is the fact that Bill made a better Republican President then the other three we had or have in office.

ON topic : Snow's Texas Two-step seems endemic to the whole Bush can do no wrong crowd.

edit My Bad Memory ; Sidestep( not the Texas Two-step) from the movie "Best Little Whorehouse In Texas" sung and danced by the Texas Governor. One of Bush's political training films.

 

[Lemon law]

I too answer that the Pres has such authority---and in less than a hour commit this entire country to a war with Iran and other countries.------previous modern Presidents have used this authority with restraint.----I have grave doubts we will see similar restraint with GWB&co.

I also see this new surge as GWB's last chance and after its almost certain failure---congress and the people will make further GWB mischief impossible if no other factors operate.

So I figure that before GWB&co. surrenders to the reality of its failures---they will be far too likely to widen the war to postpone their loss of control.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: techs
Chris Matthews asked Tony Snow if the President had the authority to military action against Iran without approval from Congress.
Tony Snow kept repeating the President knows he needs the support of the people and Congress when he chooses to take military action.

How is that avoiding the question?

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: sandorski
US planes flying into Iranian Airspace could be construed as a declaration of war, nevermind over Tehran.

U.S aircraft fly into Iran to test their air defense system then quickly retreat.

They want to see if Iran is going to turn on the defense systems so they could pinpoint where they are located so they ccan knock them out.

Iran isnt turning on the air defense systems. They learned from Iraq

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: techs
Chris Matthews asked Tony Snow if the President had the authority to military action against Iran without approval from Congress.
Tony Snow kept repeating the President knows he needs the support of the people and Congress when he chooses to take military action.




Hmm. This raises interesting questions. Could a President who wanted to start a war go ahead and conduct a military action that will precipitate a war?
In other words, if Bush assembled a large fleet off the coast of Iran and sent American planes over Teheran and the Iranians attacked us wouldn't that be a declaration of war?

Or if Bush or any President were to just go ahead and bomb Iran without any Congressional legislation authorizing it (in the absence of an Iranian attack on US forces) would it be within the Presidents legal power? Wouldn't that be a de facto declaration of war which is strictly stated in the Constitution is the perogative of the Congress?

Bush could bomb Iran for the next 2 years and wouldn't need approval from Congress. He only needs approval to put troops on the ground for more than 3 months.

While that is technically correct congress could stop that whenever they wanted by specifically wording spending bills or authorization bills to prohibit any funds from being spent on operations in Iran.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn:
Clinton took military action in Kosovo without the approval of congress. And many other Presidents have done the same.

How the bloody fsck do you find the balls to fall back to drag up that tired old "drag Clinton into it" dodge? How many of those presidential actions cost the lives of over 3,000 American troops, left tens of thousands more horribly wounded, disfigured and handicapped, and left possibly hundreds of thousands others dead and wounded? :| :| :|

Vietnam comes to mind, and that was due to the same kind of Presidential stupidity and arrogance.

You have no shame. You have no humanity. Get a grip on reality. :roll:

All PJ did was answer the OP's question by way of providing an example. Evidently the phychosis that permeates your being forces you to react in such an unwarranted and uncalled for way: Torrets perhaps?

Seek professional help Harvey, it can only do you good.

In any event, a real man would offer PJ an apology. Show us your "humanity".

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
He's not saying that Clinton did the wrong thing, he's just saying Presidents have the power to do so if they wish. Learn to comprehend what you read before you start some stupid diatribe.
Harvey.....things look bad for you...jump[ing to way too many conclusions!

Bullsh8! Learn to read his posts (or anyone's, including mine) in the context of what they say over time. This isn't the first thread about a statement from the Bushwhackos where the first reflexive response by him and other admin apologists is to say, "Clinton said/did it, too."

If we start by generously accepting the premise that Clinton said or did something similar to whatever point is being discussed, the next and most important question is whether any moral or intellectual equivalency really exists in the comparative statements/actions they raise. That requires examining and comparing both the contexts and the outcomes of those statements or actions.

NOTHING in any statement or action by Bill Clinton has been as damaging to the U.S. as the Bushwhackos' war in Iraq. It was illegal, immoral and stupid from day one. Today, it is still just as illegal, immoral and stupid, and with over 3000 dead American troops, we must add the word, tragic.

As I said in my last post, the only comparative act of Presidential authority that comes to mind is Vietnam, where, as in Iraq, our President took us to war based on lies told to Congress and the American people.

 

[Lemon law]

Here is an entire thread where a blizzard of posted text follows the words of a Presidential press secretary----as if this current press secretary or any other Presidential press secretary
is to be regarded as some sort of ultimate insider---and is indeed setting administration policy?

Once we realize that the press secretary is not setting policy---and is hired to put the administration in the best possible light---then we can start to look at this thread in the correct perspective---how could Snow have answered differently when the topic went off on this tangent?

Unlike this current Iraqi mess we are in----I very much doubt GWB&co. will even attempt to sell widening this war with anyone--after being burned big time-very few anywhere
will buy in.---although regular Iran bashing is part of GWB's stock and trade.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn:
Clinton took military action in Kosovo without the approval of congress. And many other Presidents have done the same.

How the bloody fsck do you find the balls to fall back to drag up that tired old "drag Clinton into it" dodge? How many of those presidential actions cost the lives of over 3,000 American troops, left tens of thousands more horribly wounded, disfigured and handicapped, and left possibly hundreds of thousands others dead and wounded? :| :| :|

Vietnam comes to mind, and that was due to the same kind of Presidential stupidity and arrogance.

You have no shame. You have no humanity. Get a grip on reality. :roll:

All PJ did was answer the OP's question by way of providing an example. Evidently the phychosis that permeates your being forces you to react in such an unwarranted and uncalled for way: Torrets perhaps?

Seek professional help Harvey, it can only do you good.

In any event, a real man would offer PJ an apology. Show us your "humanity".

well said :thumbsup:

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: sandorski
US planes flying into Iranian Airspace could be construed as a declaration of war, nevermind over Tehran.

U.S aircraft fly into Iran to test their air defense system then quickly retreat.

They want to see if Iran is going to turn on the defense systems so they could pinpoint where they are located so they ccan knock them out.

Iran isnt turning on the air defense systems. They learned from Iraq

They are getting mobile air defense systems from Russia instead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c7pSRR3nFQ

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Corn
All PJ did was answer the OP's question by way of providing an example. Evidently the phychosis that permeates your being forces you to react in such an unwarranted and uncalled for way: Torrets perhaps?

Seek professional help Harvey, it can only do you good.

In any event, a real man would offer PJ an apology. Show us your "humanity".

I addressed this in a previous post, and I don't accept your premise.

I offer no apology whatsoever. Don't like it? Tough.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: LcarsSystem
Yes, in fact we raided the Iranian embassy in Iraq today and many believe Bush is trying to bait Iran into taking a hostile action so we have an adequate excuse to go to war.:disgust:

Consulate, not embassy. There's a difference.