Tomshardware: AMD Shows 3D Capabilities With HD3D

[Arkadrel]

From Toms:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/radeon-barts-3d-hdmi-hd3d,12403.html


*IF* you want to read the intire thing properly, go visit Toms it has all the pretty pictures ect.


There was a thread aback with questions about "Stereoscopic 3D".. .and basically it was all Nvidia, with people asking if AMD even could do it?

Which is why I was supprised when I found a artical at tomshardware about AMD + Stereoscopic 3D.

AMD can do Stereoscopic 3D too, both in bluray 3d ect, and in gameing, sadly theres so little done to promote it that I think most people arnt even aware of it.

I think theres so little out there about AMD + HD3D that it deserved a thread.

While Nvidia's been playing in the 3D space for quite some time now with its proprietary 3D Vision technology, AMD's been holding off in what it feels is in the best interest of the industry and ultimately the consumer.

AMD's 3D technology for its Radeon HD products conform to industry standards – most notably right now is HDMI 1.4a. Sadly, this doesn't include a lot of desktop monitors on the market today, but it does include essentially every new 3D HDTV in existence today.


AMD calls its 3D Radeon HD technology HD3D, and we got to go eyes-on. The first thing we saw was the 3D Blu-ray Disc movie "Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs" using an HD3D-enabled version of Arcsoft's TotalMedia Theatre player. Impressively, the 3D content played inside a window on the desktop, and could be moved about the screen while maintaining the effect.

For those who absolutely want to multitask even while wearing a pair of 3D glasses, you can watch a movie in 3D in a window while maintaining a 2D desktop for other tasks. All of this was achieved on a Samsung 3D HDTV, which used the bundled Samsung 3D glasses – another proof of AMD's use of industry standards.

Unlike Nvidia, AMD relies on the 3D profiling work of an outside company to make 3D magic happen. We were shown Dynamic Digital Depth's (DDD) TriDef 3D Experience software, which had tons of presets for games and applications. AMD claims that over 400 titles are supported right now through TriDef profiles, so that's comparable to what Nvidia is offering with 3D Vision.


A demonstration of Google Earth was fired up, and there was no better city on the continent to highlight 3D other than New York. The 3D effect worked well on Manhattan, showing off all the skyscrapers of the island. To more tranquil surroundings we virtually headed next, off to the Rocky Mountains of British Columbia. There too it showed the terrain in full three dimensions.


Next, we were shown games, which only run in 3D while in fullscreen mode. Dragon Age 2 took the stage again, and it worked quite impressively in 3D. The 3D profile was actually created for the first Dragon Age game, but it worked quite well for the sequel. (Sadly, nothing we can write here, or even show in photographs will truly convey what 3D gaming is like until you see it – and the same goes for Nvidia's 3D Vision too.)

Afterwards, we wanted to see how a first-person shooter would look on the big Samsung LCD HDTV. AMD didn't have any pre-setup on its demo machine, so we got to see the process of how a TriDef 3D profile is attached to a game.

Simply, the TriDef 3D program is pointed to the game's executable, and then a dropdown menu scrolls to the game in question – which in this case was Medal of Honor. From the launcher, we jumped into the game and it was in full 3D. The game's subtitles were a bit too close on the focal plane, but the gameplay was set just fine.

All in all, AMD's HD3D system works quite well. The key differentiator that the company is pushing is that it'll work with standards, which is great for those who have a 3DTV and want big screen gaming.


There is, however, a limitation to this too. Because AMD utilizes the HDMI 1.4a specification, which boasts a maximum TMDS throughput of 10.2 Gb/s, you can either game in stereo at 720p maxing out at 60 frames per second per eye, or you can game at 1080p with up to 24 frames per second per eye. That's actually pretty severe, considering we've been playing around with 5760x1080 using 3D Vision Surround and dual-link DVI connectors (each display running at 1920x1080). AMD says it'll transcend the shackles of HDMI 1.4a later this year when more monitor vendors begin incorporating DisplayPort 1.2. A peak effective bandwidth of 17.28 Gb/s is enough to enable 1080p at 60 frames per eye.

It’s important to mention that Nvidia can also handle stereoscopic 3D on commercial displays over HDMI 1.4a with the release of its 3DTV Play driver. This driver is now available as a free download for 3D Vision owners, and will be bundled in a number of products, such as the XPS laptops from Dell.

If you want to enable 3D playback on your compatible television, but don't want to buy the 3D Vision kit, the 3DTV Play should be available for purchase from Nvidia.com for $39.99. Keep in mind that this driver will work only on newer GeForce models that can handle the HDMI 1.4a standard. Also note that, if you're using 3DTV Play over HDMI, you'll suffer the same resolution/frame rate limitation as AMD's Radeon HD 6800-series boards. Only by switching to a dual-link DVI output can you overcome that.

With this information in hand, let’s consider costs. If you want to watch Blu-ray 3D, you’re going to have to pay for Blu-ray 3D playback software, regardless of the graphics card. With an Nvidia card, you need to purchase the $40 3DTV Play driver from Nvidia at least or a $149 3D Vision kit at most. The interesting part is that AMD has actually bypassed any proprietary expense, so Blu-ray 3D playback is that much cheaper on Radeon cards.


Having said that, Nvidia includes the stereoscopic game driver with 3DTV Play and 3D Vision, while AMD hardware requires a third party game driver from DDD or iZ3D. DDD now offers its TriDef gaming driver to Radeon 6000 series owners for $24.99, and iZ3D offers their driver to Radeon 6000 series owners for $19.99.



While AMD was late to join the 3D arena, we saw first-hand proof that there's a fully-working solution now available for your 3D cravings.

Links to AMDs page about HD3D :

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/Pages/hd3d.aspx

 

[3DVagabond]

What? It's a standard? You already have 2 companies competing over your money? Competition to make it better and cheaper? Oh, and speaking of cheaper, it's already cheaper than nVidia's 3D? God, I hate open standards. /sarc

This is a smart move by AMD. 3D gaming will succeed or fail on it's own. No investment from them, and no need to pour money into it to prop it up, should it be needed. I suppose it could be said that they aren't also making $40 to $140 from everyone who uses it on AMD hardware, but nothing stops them from supporting the standard from the software side if they deem it to be profitable.

 

[Idontcare]

DX12 needs to include 3D and Physics. EOM.

 

[arkcom]

If it only supports 1080p at 24fps per eye, why can't we just use the 60 hz displays we already have?

 

[thilanliyan]

nVidia charges $40...FOR A DRIVER? Lol. Shouldn't it be given to anyone who bought one of their cards? 3D is advertised on their boxes isn't it? Or is it like a fine print thing where they say you have to buy that 3DVision bundle on top of the card for it to work?

EDIT: Correction, as notty22 points out, you have to buy a driver for AMD's solution as well. Thank you for correcting my ignorance notty22.

 

[notty22]

nVidia charges $40...FOR A DRIVER? Lol. Shouldn't it be given to anyone who bought one of their cards? 3D is advertised on their boxes isn't it? Or is it like a fine print thing where they say you have to buy that 3DVision bundle on top of the card for it to work?

That is for the driver for 3dtvplay , that does come with their 3dvison kit (glasses, base). But you can buy separate that allows you to have 3d on your TV with your TV's lcd 3d glasses.
By the way, its exactly similar to the driver you have to BUY with AMD's system to enable 3dgaming. From the 2- 3rd party companies mentioned in the article.

Having said that, Nvidia includes the stereoscopic game driver with 3DTV Play and 3D Vision, while AMD hardware requires a third party game driver from DDD or iZ3D. DDD now offers its TriDef gaming driver to Radeon 6000 series owners for $24.99, and iZ3D offers their driver to Radeon 6000 series owners for $19.99.

 

[3DVagabond]

@notty22:

Are you OK with nVidia making their 3D only work with a driver that's proprietary to them and then charging so much for it? What is the benefit of that? Isn't using an industry standard a better approach?

 

[SirPauly]

I think it is outstanding to see and read more awareness for Stereo3d. Thanks for the link for the article.

 

[SirPauly]

Isn't using an industry standard a better approach?

Sure, when they're offered and mature. Did you read the article?

AMD's 3D technology for its Radeon HD products conform to industry standards – most notably right now is HDMI 1.4a. Sadly, this doesn't include a lot of desktop monitors on the market today, but it does include essentially every new 3D HDTV in existence today.

AMD says it'll transcend the shackles of HDMI 1.4a later this year when more monitor vendors begin incorporating DisplayPort 1.2. A peak effective bandwidth of 17.28 Gb/s is enough to enable 1080p at 60 frames per eye.

While we wait for monitor vendors to incorporate enough peak effective bandwidth so one can enable 1080P at 60 frames per eye --- nVidia offered proprietary so their customers could have it now and for some time. Proprietary may not be ideal for all but it can transcend shackles.

 

[SirPauly]

The key differentiator that the company is pushing is that it'll work with standards, which is great for those who have a 3DTV and want big screen gaming.

This bothers me and offers the illusion that they're a differentiator based on standards -- nVidia offers the same thing:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?opt...s-3dtv-play-explained&catid=35:news&Itemid=73

 

[notty22]

@notty22:

Are you OK with nVidia making their 3D only work with a driver that's proprietary to them and then charging so much for it? What is the benefit of that? Isn't using an industry standard a better approach?

Are you ok with AMD not creating their own gaming 3d driver and allowing 3rd party companies, DDD and IZ3d to charge you for one. I wonder if AMD even regularly checks for compatibility with their driver releases ?

I think Nvidia's approach is vastly superior. You can go to their site and read FAQ's, directons on every step of the process. Troubleshooting databases etc.
You go AMD and you can read a press release and hope you have no trouble and need support.

The driver that Nvidia charges for that allows 3dtvplay is included when you buy a 3dvision glasses kit.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play.html
How do I get NVIDIA 3DTV Play software?

• 1 – Add it to your current PC: 3DTV Play software is now available for sale as an upgrade for existing PCs.
  
  
  ​
  
  2 – Get a new PC: NVIDIA 3DTV Play software will be bundled on select Dell and Asus notebooks, as well as AsRock systems. Find a 3DTV PC now.
  
  3 – Activate 3DTV Play on your 3D Vision PC: NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available as a free upgrade for 3D Vision PCs. Download the latest Release 265 GeForce Drivers for desktop GPUs and Release 265 Verde Notebooks drivers for notebook GPUs. (NOTE: the 3D Vision IR emitter is required to activate 3DTV Play software on your PC.)
  4 – Try it free for 14 days! NVIDIA 3DTV Play software is available for free for 14 days. Try it now on your PC.

NVIDIA 3DTV Play Software at a glance:

• – Works with HDMI 1.4 3D TVs and compatible 3D glasses system, including Panasonic® VIERA® Full HD 3D Plasma TVs. For a current list of supported 3D TVs and receivers, please click here.
  – Enjoy crisp, stunning Blu-ray™ 3D movies in full 1080p HD playback.* Your GeForce GPU accelerates the video decoding to provide seamless 3D quality.
  – Converts your standard PC games into 3D so you can play over 500 PC games in stunning 3D environments, such StarCraft® II: Wings of Liberty™, Mafia® II, and Call of Duty® Black Ops™.
  – Browse 3D photographs on your 3D TV or view them in a slideshow with the included 3D photo viewing software.

3DTV Play software requires a compatible GeForce GPU, Microsoft® Windows® 7, and a compatible 3D TV. Please view the 3DTV Play system requirements for more details. Please also check the list of supported 3D TVs.

* Blu-ray 3D support requires the purchase of a compatible video playback software application from Corel, CyberLink, ArcSoft, or Roxio.

 

[SirPauly]

I don't see what the big deal is on costs: 49.99 MSRP for DDD, 39.99 MSRP for IZ3d, 39.99 MSRP for nVidia. AMD probably has agreements with the third parties if they own a specific Radeon, one can knock the costs down to have the software to 24.99 to 19.99. I think its great, that there are choices and more 3d stereo awareness.

 

[notty22]

I am also glad that AMD is supporting 3d . Hopefully it will get all pc gamers on the bandwagon.

It might push the monitor makers in to making more 120mhz offerings. Which could make everything eventually cheaper.

 

[Lonyo]

I don't see what the big deal is on costs: 49.99 MSRP for DDD, 39.99 MSRP for IZ3d, 39.99 MSRP for nVidia. AMD probably has agreements with the third parties if they own a specific Radeon, one can knock the costs down to have the software to 24.99 to 19.99. I think its great, that there are choices and more 3d stereo awareness.

It would be interesting to see how they all compare. They all work on NV cards, so doing a review of game support from the two third party companies vs NVs solution would be a useful article for those interested in 3D (woo for lazy eyes).
Also, if you buy the DDD/IZ3D, wouldn't it mean you can switch cards? So $50 or $40 gets you 3D on AMD or NV if you decide to switch GPU producer, while $40 restricts you to NV going forward.

As for the OP, AMD has been supporting 3D for a while via IZ3D. I've even posted in some threads in the past that AMD has 3D support, but it's obviously not first party.
Obviously someone cares enough to make a thread though, just not me since I can't 3D anyway.

 

[shangshang]

I'll pass the whole 3D gaming thing until Microsoft incorporates it in their DirectX. I think it's going to be MS that will drive the 3D gaming thing. Compared to MS, NV and AMD are little fish fighting for little bits.

And no, open standards won't get you anywhere, at least not in gaming. See OpenGL versus DX.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

I don't like the idea of wearing glasses over my glasses. In fact wearing headphones over my glasses can be a pain. So as such, 3D on the PC isn't grabbing my interest.

 

[SirPauly]

It would be interesting to see how they all compare. They all work on NV cards, so doing a review of game support from the two third party companies vs NVs solution would be a useful article for those interested in 3D (woo for lazy eyes).
Also, if you buy the DDD/IZ3D, wouldn't it mean you can switch cards? So $50 or $40 gets you 3D on AMD or NV if you decide to switch GPU producer, while $40 restricts you to NV going forward.

As for the OP, AMD has been supporting 3D for a while via IZ3D. I've even posted in some threads in the past that AMD has 3D support, but it's obviously not first party.
Obviously someone cares enough to make a thread though, just not me since I can't 3D anyway.

Imho,

How can nVidia support AMD hardware with their software? That's not the problem, but will nVidia go out of their way to support DDD and IZ3d? That's the question to me.

 

[Lonyo]

Imho,

How can nVidia support AMD hardware with their software? That's not the problem, but will nVidia go out of their way to support DDD and IZ3d? That's the question to me.

I didn't mean NV should support AMD hardware. I meant that if IZ3D and DDD support both, you get better value from their packages. And it means that a comparison between all three could be done on NV hardware to see how good or otherwise the IZ3D and DDD solutions are.
The fact that NV have their own system means that it has better support on NV, but it also means you are "locked in", and that's just simply a drawback of a vendor specific system.
Much like if you bought PS2 games you couldn't then buy an Xbox 360 and expect them to work on it.

"iZ3D software is compatible with Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, supports DirectX 8, DirectX 9 and DirectX10 games. Most importantly, all iZ3D software works both on AMD Radeon and nVidia GeForce GPUs. "

 

[notty22]

For games.
With the AMD route, if you have a 3d tv and its 'proprietary' glasses then you can go the iz3d route.
But if you want to strictly use a 120mhz PC monitor, then you have to buy your monitor and hope it works well with whatever 3d glasses solution you also buy separately. So now you have 3 pieces of the puzzle from different vendors, not counting the game software !

Some try to spin that having a complete solution from a vendor as a negative. I only see positives. Unless its not available to you.

 

[Phynaz]

Are you ok with AMD not creating their own gaming 3d driver and allowing 3rd party companies, DDD and IZ3d to charge you for one.

I'm fine with that. I was buying third party drivers back in days of the Tseng Labs VGA chips.

How would you feel if Nvidia came out with a driver set that increased performance by 30% across the board, but wanted you to pay for it?

How about if a third party came out with a driver set that increased performance across the board by 30%, but wanted you to pay for it?

In my opinion there is a difference between a third party stepping in and offering a product that fills a void and a first party charging additional to fill a void.

 

[sandorski]

Like PhysX, Nvidia will have spent $big on proprietary Tech that will be replaced by Industry Standards anyway. AMD learned a long time ago that such endeavours were ultimately a waste of time and money(3DNow). They give you some temporary advantage and a Marketing bullet point, but your Time, Money, and Energy is better spent elsewhere.

 

[SirPauly]

And? While one waits for those industry standards, its nice to have a proprietary choice to get things rolling. Waiting is good for all.

 

[SirPauly]

I didn't mean NV should support AMD hardware. I meant that if IZ3D and DDD support both, you get better value from their packages. And it means that a comparison between all three could be done on NV hardware to see how good or otherwise the IZ3D and DDD solutions are.
The fact that NV have their own system means that it has better support on NV, but it also means you are "locked in", and that's just simply a drawback of a vendor specific system.
Much like if you bought PS2 games you couldn't then buy an Xbox 360 and expect them to work on it.

"iZ3D software is compatible with Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, supports DirectX 8, DirectX 9 and DirectX10 games. Most importantly, all iZ3D software works both on AMD Radeon and nVidia GeForce GPUs. "

Would you trust your software for your GPU to third parties or AMD?

Even though I welcome DDD and IZ3d, would rather have AMD spend resources creating their own software for their customers.

 

[Lonyo]

Would you trust your software for your GPU to third parties or AMD?

Even though I welcome DDD and IZ3d, would rather have AMD spend resources creating their own software for their customers.

You would.
I'd rather have stuff I can use with whatever I buy.
As listed in my sig, I swap video card companies almost as often as I swap video cards, so while AMD and NV both having their own 3D might be nice because it means the product might be "better", I'd rather have the choice to buy whatever is better value (although it's academic because I will never buy 3D display stuff).
Same reason I don't like anything which locks you in to one party more than necessary.
Intel requiring RAMBUS RAM was lame and dumb since no one else wanted to use it. PhysX requiring an NV GPU for the graphics is dumb. 3D requiring different glasses/drivers depending on your GPU is dumb. SLI requiring an NV chipset. etc etc.

As a consumer who strives for best value for my money, I want the greatest freedom of choice, and I don't want to have to buy something twice if it shouldn't be necessary.

 

[SirPauly]

You would.
I'd rather have stuff I can use with whatever I buy.
As listed in my sig, I swap video card companies almost as often as I swap video cards, so while AMD and NV both having their own 3D might be nice because it means the product might be "better", I'd rather have the choice to buy whatever is better value (although it's academic because I will never buy 3D display stuff).
Same reason I don't like anything which locks you in to one party more than necessary.
Intel requiring RAMBUS RAM was lame and dumb since no one else wanted to use it. PhysX requiring an NV GPU for the graphics is dumb. 3D requiring different glasses/drivers depending on your GPU is dumb. SLI requiring an NV chipset. etc etc.

As a consumer who strives for best value for my money, I want the greatest freedom of choice, and I don't want to have to buy something twice if it shouldn't be necessary.

I get it you like freedom but honestly how much freedom is there restricted to HDMI 1.4 and ones hands are tied and chained to it? Is that what you desire to force upon all customers?