Question [Toms] TSMC hiking prices

[Doug S]

Which means the node is getting more expensive rather than cheaper.

But that's only due to a temporary supply imbalance, it is not because the nodes are costing TSMC more to produce it is because TSMC is able to capture bigger margins.

It has no meaning as far as Moore's Law.

 

[Roland00Address]

So instead of nodes getting cheaper they are getting more expensive.

Is this any different than the boom and bust phenomena we seen with Ram and NAND prices for 30 or so years now? (NAND being more recent)

 

[jpiniero]

But that's only due to a temporary supply imbalance

It's not temporary, at least while Intel craps the bed.

 

[maddie]

It's not temporary, at least while Intel craps the bed.

Isn't TSMC & others building fabs and supply capacity at an accelerated pace. Intel is one piece of a wider industry.

 

[moinmoin]

It's not temporary, at least while Intel craps the bed.

I don't think Intel crapping its bed changes the pricing at TSMC (unless you are taking IFS 2.0 this seriously now already).

 

[DrMrLordX]

I don't think Intel crapping its bed changes the pricing at TSMC (unless you are taking IFS 2.0 this seriously now already).

Intel is pouring billions of dollars into TSMC now. That might change a few things.

 

[moinmoin]

Intel is pouring billions of dollars into TSMC now. That might change a few things.

Yes, that made TSMC convert an R&D building into a new fab for Intel.

 

[bononos]

Intel is pouring billions of dollars into TSMC now. That might change a few things.

When did they do that? I thought TSMC and Intel are rivals and are spending lots of money on their own fabs and r&d.

 

[JasonLD]

When did they do that? I thought TSMC and Intel are rivals and are spending lots of money on their own fabs and r&d.

Intel pouring billions of dollars into TSMC for the capacity. Intel has to rely on TSMC for the GPUs for next 3-4 years at least until they complete expansion of their own fabs.

 

[TheELF]

Intel pouring billions of dollars into TSMC for the capacity. Intel has to rely on TSMC for the GPUs for next 3-4 years at least until they complete expansion of their own fabs.

* some of their gpus.

All of their gaming GPUs will be external (tsmc) though.

 

[jpiniero]

Intel pouring billions of dollars into TSMC for the capacity. Intel has to rely on TSMC for the GPUs for next 3-4 years at least until they complete expansion of their own fabs.

You mean after they paid the (billion dollar?) penalty for Auruora because 7 nm is way behind schedule.

* some of their gpus.

That's an obsolete slide. The Xe HP was cancelled a long time ago.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yes, that made TSMC convert an R&D building into a new fab for Intel.

Indeed. They're kind of running out of ways to expand rapidly enough to keep up with demand.

 

[moinmoin]

Indeed. They're kind of running out of ways to expand rapidly enough to keep up with demand.

Considering ASML and its many subcontractors are some of the bottlenecks felt there it's an industry wide issue.

 

[JasonLD]

You mean after they paid the (billion dollar?) penalty for Auruora because 7 nm is way behind schedule.

Probably on the range of $300m, which isn’t much compared to what they will get from US Gov’t for building favs in US though.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't think Intel crapping its bed changes the pricing at TSMC (unless you are taking IFS 2.0 this seriously now already).

It greatly increased demand for Intel's competitor's products (read: AMD and ARM products to begin with). They were going to lose the Apple PC business regardless but had they not screwed up 10 nm Intel might have been able to keep the modem contract instead of Apple going back to Qualcomm. Now Intel is spending a boatload of money at TSMC too.