[Toms] Nvidia's New 3D Vision 2 Vs. AMD's HD3D

[Skurge]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-3d-vision-hd3d-steroscopic,3050.html

The reviewer didn't say anything about image quality so I'm going to assume they are equal.

It still looks like Nvidia has the best (most stable) solution, but I have to say I am impressed with how well the AMD cards were fairing. They did have a couple of bugs.

But the 6970 looks like it can easily handle 3D at 1080p, the 570 struggled in a lot of games. The 580s didn't have that problem so I think the 570 is running out of vram.

I also wish they tested a few more Native HD3D games. Looks like performance wise AMD is right there with Nvidia, but lack of crossfire support and not being able to use MSAA in a few games is a big downside.

Hopefully with some more time AMD can iron out those bugs and bring their features and stability in line with Nvidia's

 

[Pandora's Box]

its 1 570 while the 580 is sli....

 

[destrekor]

Ugh I want a 23" LightBoost monitor released like... yesterday. In the market for a three-monitor setup for NV Surround, and I want the main panel to be a 120hz display. Currently have a 23" ASUS IPS 1080p and I might pick up another one to flank the other side, or if the 120hz display is affordable enough without glasses, get two and have the IPS on the far end.

 

[Skurge]

its 1 570 while the 580 is sli....

Yeah, but if it's not a lack of vram, what would be explain the 570 being so much slower than the 6970 at 1080p.

 

[SirPauly]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-3d-vision-hd3d-steroscopic,3050.html

The reviewer didn't say anything about image quality so I'm going to assume they are equal.

It still looks like Nvidia has the best (most stable) solution, but I have to say I am impressed with how well the AMD cards were fairing. They did have a couple of bugs.

But the 6970 looks like it can easily handle 3D at 1080p, the 570 struggled in a lot of games. The 580s didn't have that problem so I think the 570 is running out of vram.

I also wish they tested a few more Native HD3D games. Looks like performance wise AMD is right there with Nvidia, but lack of crossfire support and not being able to use MSAA in a few games is a big downside.

Hopefully with some more time AMD can iron out those bugs and bring their features and stability in line with Nvidia's

The key with lightboost technologies from nVidia, there is a dramatic difference from 1st and 2nd generation 3d vision ready monitors, there is virtually no loss of color and lighting, but more importantly, crosstalk has been curbed significantly, which is key. More investigations would be welcomed.

 

[Seero]

The key with lightboost technologies from nVidia, there is a dramatic difference from 1st and 2nd generation 3d vision ready monitors, there is virtually no loss of color and lighting, but more importantly, crosstalk has been curbed significantly, which is key. More investigations would be welcomed.

I wish all those are true. Better wait for further reviews as the killer to 3d is ghosting/crosstalk.

 

[SirPauly]

There is the hothardware review, that offered no ghosting, first hand, and the PR slides that illustrate this point, using a worse case crosstalk example. CrossTalk is my major nit-pick and was floored seeing the quality of that screenshot. More investigations are welcomed but they're going out of their way and offering quality this time.

 

[SirPauly]

Computerbase slide #6 -- shot taken with 3d vision glasses:

http://www.computerbase.de/news/2011-10/nvidia-3d-vision-2-es-wird-groesser-und-heller/

Hothardware review with actual hardware and testing:

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/NVIDIA-3D-Vision-2-and-The-Asus-VG278-LCD/

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/NVIDIA-3D-Vision-2-and-The-Asus-VG278-LCD/?page=3



This news was actually leaked in early September here:

http://3dvision-blog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1643

The key to me was hopefully improving the dimming but more importantly improve CrossTalk or ghosting, and to me, was my largest nit-pick as well.

 

[arredondo]

Can you use a consumer 3DTV with this tech (specifically the Radeon 6xxx series)? I have a 60" Sony LCD 3D set with compatible glasses and my PC is connected to it via HDMI. I wouldn't buy a separate display if it doesn't work on what I have.

 

[SirPauly]

I don't see why not! Just have to purchase an IZ3D or DDD driver but since you have a Radeon, I believe the price is 19.99.


http://www.iz3d.com/

http://www.tridef.com/home.html

 

[arredondo]

According to this page from AMD, my NX720 3DHDTV from Sony isn't supported:

 

[Attic]

I have had a hard time getting much reliable information about 3D gaming on consumer 3D HDTV sets.

nVidia 3DPlay worked, but I believe it was limited to 720P, perhaps 1080P24. For 3D gaming I'm under the impression that true 120hz displays are essential to a good expeience (60fps for each eye), no consumer level HDTV's support a 120hz input AFAIK. HDMI can't send 1080P120.

 

[Seero]

My problem is this, I have my 120hz monitor + 3d vision. Buying another pair is not a problem if it is indeed better than before, but other than 20% better in size, nothing is actually special about it. The 27" monitor looks good, but what about my 23" monitor? Spending another 600 bucks is not my biggest problem. My biggest problem is, what if it is another 120hz that have ghosting?

I tend to wait until the resolution increase before my next purchase, and if I am going to spend another 600 bucks, there must not be any ghosting.

 

[arredondo]

Why 120Hz? I play a lot of 3D games on my PS3 with this TV.

 

[notigg]

Does anyone know when the specs for the other 2 monitors will emerge?

 

[-Slacker-]

Aren't most video games already 3d trollface.jpg ?

 

[SirPauly]

According to this page from AMD, my NX720 3DHDTV from Sony isn't supported:

Sorry, to hear that!

 

[SirPauly]

My problem is this, I have my 120hz monitor + 3d vision. Buying another pair is not a problem if it is indeed better than before, but other than 20% better in size, nothing is actually special about it. The 27" monitor looks good, but what about my 23" monitor? Spending another 600 bucks is not my biggest problem. My biggest problem is, what if it is another 120" that have ghosting?

I tend to wait until the resolution increase before my next purchase, and if I am going to spend another 600 bucks, there must not be any ghosting.

imho,

The key is getting the product out there in gamers' hands and listen to what they offer -- especially the ones that first raised the points about CrossTalk. Usually, IHV's go out of their way about discussing limitations, only, when they actually improve them significantly, hence the PR slide, to illustrate the point. No where needed to find out for sure 'till there are more investigations and views, first hand.

I am still using a first generation 3d vision display and one of the very first adopters out there, so for me, this would be a significant upgrade, from size, resolution and quality. Size and resolution are nice but the key for me is the CrossTalk -- if this has been significantly improved, would be very pleased.

 

[The-Noid]

no consumer level HDTV's support a 120hz input AFAIK. HDMI can't send 1080P120.

DVI-Dual Link or Displayport does.

 

[Seero]

imho,

The key is getting the product out there in gamers' hands and listen to what they offer -- especially the ones that first raised the points about CrossTalk. Usually, IHV's go out of their way about discussing limitations, only, when they actually improve them significantly, hence the PR slide, to illustrate the point. No where needed to find out for sure 'till there are more investigations and views, first hand.

I am still using a first generation 3d vision display and one of the very first adopters out there, so for me, this would be a significant upgrade, from size, resolution and quality. Size and resolution are nice but the key for me is the CrossTalk -- if this has been significantly improved, would be very pleased.

wise words.

Crosstalk is such a big topic in 3D. With first gen, some people are having issues with top 20% of the screen crosstalk, some say using the port with a webcam fixes it, some say a USB card fixes it, some say a bios setting on bios fixes it, and some other say disabling USB 2.0 fixes it. I hope all this issues are fixed, as I am one of those people who brought a PCIe USB3.0 card just to find out that it doesn't help.

 

[SirPauly]

The reason why I waited was for me to spend additional monies, needed to know that CrossTalk was significantly improved. I still like 3d vision in its current state, and was still welcomed, but simply desired to see its limitations improve as it is matures and evolves. When I first found out about LightBoost( from the leak) in early September, my hope was improvements in CrossTalk, and nice to see some innovation here. I was always curious how the engineers could solve or curb this limitation.

Certainly garnered value, based on the 3d stereo platform enjoyed from an 8800GT, GTX 260, GTX 470.

 

[Aikouka]

I'm really not a huge fan of AMD's HD3D for one reason... at 1080p, the display's limited to 24Hz. The problem is that AMD chose to use (as I call it) the "TV standard" for 3D over HDMI, and more specifically, they chose to use Frame Packing (also used by Blu-Ray).

Frame Packing only allows for a specific number of resolutions and refresh rate combos, and the most common are 720p50, 720p60 and 1080p24. If you've got a 720p TV/monitor, you're in luck as 60Hz is pretty normal for most computer users. The problem is when you want to run your game at 1080p, and you're stuck at 24Hz. Your game can be rendering at 1000FPS, but you're only going to see 24 images per second.

I've also used AMD's HD3D with my Mitsubishi DLP. It worked, but it honestly wasn't that great. The biggest problem was mostly in rendering performance. I was using my older machine, which is an i7-860 + Radeon 5870, and I was literally running at 1 FPS in World of Warcraft. The problem is that while I can run at over 100 FPS with AA and AF turned on (without 3D), that's simply not possible with 3D on.

I noticed that Tom's Hardware removed the TriDef 3D entries for WoW (stating significant artifacting), and I believe I was using TriDef 3D for all of my tests (also tested StarCraft II and Borderlands). I didn't notice any personally, but it's hard to see much at 1 FPS.

 

[DamonCleeve]

I'm really not a huge fan of AMD's HD3D for one reason... at 1080p, the display's limited to 24Hz. The problem is that AMD chose to use (as I call it) the "TV standard" for 3D over HDMI, and more specifically, they chose to use Frame Packing (also used by Blu-Ray).

You are misinformed, sir. AMD's HD3D does not suffer from the 24 Hz limitation over DisplayPort, only over HDMI.
3D Vision suffers the same 24 Hz limitation over HDMI, that's why 3D Vision monitors use Dual-DVI as the interface of choice.

Check out the review linked at the top of this thread.

I noticed that Tom's Hardware removed the TriDef 3D entries for WoW (stating significant artifacting), and I believe I was using TriDef 3D for all of my tests (also tested StarCraft II and Borderlands). I didn't notice any personally, but it's hard to see much at 1 FPS.

Once again, check the review above. AMD's HD3D performed excellently in WoW (and pretty much everything else, for that matter).
The only entries not given for WOW were the AA results in the normal TriDef mode, but the TriDef drivers performed acceptably in Virtual 3D model with MLAA.

HD3D/TriDef has come a long way.

 

[Aikouka]

You are misinformed, sir. AMD's HD3D does not suffer from the 24 Hz limitation over DisplayPort, only over HDMI.
3D Vision suffers the same 24 Hz limitation over HDMI, that's why 3D Vision monitors use Dual-DVI as the interface of choice.

Check out the review linked at the top of this thread.

I'm talking about HD3D over HDMI, which the majority of 3D display adapters that are compatible with HD3D use. The majority being almost every single 3D TV that's been released over the past few years, which regardless of what AMD lists on their website, as long as they support processing Frame Packing, they will support AMD's HD3D.

Also, to my knowledge, 3D Vision does not support HDMI. If you want to do 3D over HDMI with a nVidia card, you must purchase their 3DTV Play. The main point that I was trying to get across is that I'm not a fan of HD3D's transmission standard in 1080p, which is why I prefer nVidia's 3D Vision since it uses a 120Hz refresh rate.

Oh, and because someone will probably attempt to call me a "nVidia troll", the newest piece of nVidia hardware that I own is an 8800GTX, and every PC I own is running an AMD/ATi GPU or on-board Intel. Frankly, I think nVidia's cards aren't worth the price premium, but that doesn't stop me from preferring their 3D implementation.

Once again, check the review above. AMD's HD3D performed excellently in WoW (and pretty much everything else, for that matter).
The only entries not given for WOW were the AA results in the normal TriDef mode, but the TriDef drivers performed acceptably in Virtual 3D model with MLAA.

I'm trying to understand exactly what you're implying. Are you saying that I'm lying about my own actual experience with the software in question? The same PC normally runs WoW at (I believe) 4x AA and 16x AF at 1920x1200. I took the same settings and ran it under 1920x1080x24 with TriDef enabled. I don't know which TriDef I was running though. I only tried it once, and honestly... wasn't impressed with any of the games.

 

[DamonCleeve]

Also, to my knowledge, 3D Vision does not support HDMI. If you want to do 3D over HDMI with a nVidia card, you must purchase their 3DTV Play.

Yes, that's what i was referring to. 3D Vision supports HDMI through 3DTV Play

The main point that I was trying to get across is that I'm not a fan of HD3D's transmission standard in 1080p, which is why I prefer nVidia's 3D Vision since it uses a 120Hz refresh rate.

And that's my main point; you're not quite right about that.

HD3D *DOES* support 1080p/120 Hz, over DisplayPort (not HDMI).
Just like 3D Vision supports 1080p/120 Hz over DVI-D (not HDMI).

For HD3D you need a DisplayPort 3D monitor, just like for 3D Vision you need a DVI-D 3D Vision monitor.

Either way you get 120 Hz AFR 3D, you just need a different monitor to support either standard. The Tom's Hardware article uses one of these 120 Hz 3D DisplayPort monitors in the article linked to above, that's why I suggested you read it.

I'm trying to understand exactly what you're implying. Are you saying that I'm lying about my own actual experience with the software in question? The same PC normally runs WoW at (I believe) 4x AA and 16x AF at 1920x1200. I took the same settings and ran it under 1920x1080x24 with TriDef enabled. I don't know which TriDef I was running though. I only tried it once, and honestly... wasn't impressed with any of the games.

I'm certainly not calling you a liar sir, or calling you an Nvidia troll.

All I'm doing is pointing out that you can have 120 Hz/1080p with either HD3D or 3D Vision, and that the results on Tom's Hardware mirror my own when using the TriDef driver with WOW.

It works well and quite smoothly, and I have both 3D Vision/DVI-D and HD3D/DisplayPort setups here. If you're using 4xAA that's likely the cause of the poor performance you saw with WOW, as the TriDef driver doesn't play well with MSAA in that title. That's why Tom's used MLAA. But without AA the experience is very good at 1080p, and certainly not limited to 24 Hz as long as you're using the correct monitor over the proper supported display cable.

But yes, I certainly agree that over HDMI, both HD3D and 3D Vision/3DTV play suck.