tomb raider 2013 is how pc versions should be done imo

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[cmdrdredd]

AA is the only one I've tried on both, but in that game at least, M&K is superior.

No way, it's too awkward for me to move in a 3D space when you have a 3rd person view with an input method that is only on or off and no in between. I can do it for FPS games because the mouse essentially "turns" your character the direction you want to go. Moving just the camera with the mouse and having to manipulate movements in the environment with WSAD isn't that great to me.

 

[Bateluer]

No way, it's too awkward to move in a 3D space when you have a 3rd person view with an input method that is only on or off and no in between.

Never had this problem in any games I've ever played in the past 25 years.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Never had this problem in any games I've ever played in the past 25 years.

Just cause you deal with it doesn't mean it isn't inferior to having dual analog sticks to control your movement in a 3rd person game. You can actually control your movement speed by varying the pressure you put on the analog stick itself. No need to hit shift to walk or anything of the sort. Sometimes I feel like I am playing the pianno with how many buttons I'm supposed to hit in some games on PC lol.

 

[Topweasel]

No way, it's too awkward to move in a 3D space when you have a 3rd person view with an input method that is only on or off and no in between.

Yeah I haven't played AA with a k/m but i tried a few year back to play Assassins Creed with k/m (lots of similar combat and movement controls) and it was so annoying to control I wont even try AA with k/m.

 

[Raduque]

The mouse is a better tool for moving the view port (whether first-person, or a floating camera), but the analog thumbstick is a FAR FAR superior method for controlling movement.

It's better to have granular control over movement with an analog stick, vs "only choice is stopped or running" as with a keyboard. You wouldn't want to be either 0 throttle or 100% throttle in a racing game, why would you want to be standing still or running full tilt boogie in a shooter?

 

[Bateluer]

Just cause you deal with it doesn't mean it isn't inferior to having dual analog sticks to control your movement in a 3rd person game. You can actually control your movement speed by varying the pressure you put on the analog stick itself. No need to hit shift to walk or anything of the sort. Sometimes I feel like I am playing the pianno with how many buttons I'm supposed to hit in some games on PC lol.

This argument has been brought up by console players before in vain attempts to defend the superiority of the controller, and its just as stale now. 99.99% of the time, this is an irrelevant aspect and hardly worth even bringing up. Fact remains, the K+B is the superior control system for all genres except racing, fighting, and flight sims. You may prefer the controller, but you're still at a disadvantage with it compared to a K+M user.

TR2013 has great controls though. At no point in the entire game do you feel like you're fighting the game's controls. Its almost perfect. Movements are smooth and natural, action keys work, etc. Crystal did a fantastic job with it. For 5 dollars, it worth every penny. I think the GOTY Edition was 7.50, which has all the DLC for it. DLC was mostly worthless though.

 

[futurefields]

Fact remains, the K+B is the superior control blah blah blah...

That's not a fact, that's your opinion. Quit trolling.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Loved the new Tomb Raider. A few too many QTE's but otherwise it was great.

Played with mouse and keyboard and had zero problems. I'm not even sure how people had problems unless they have midget hands or type at the speed of 3 words per minute.

 

[tential]

I'm a KB+Mouse type of guy, but I do have a theater with a 104" screen. Is this game better played on a computer with KB+M or will I fare well with my 360 controller on the big screen?

I only have a 70 inch LED HDTV but I sat back in the couch and played this game with a 360 controller and it was GREAT. Definitely would recommend you sit back and enjoy this game on the big screen.

This is why this is NOT how PC Games should be done. Anything that plays best on a console controller should stay on consoles.

The game itself was alright but nothing exceptional.

So you're saying that a game that plays well with both console controller and mouse and keyboard should just stay on the console? Bold.... but I think the majority of us will pass thanks though!

AA is the only one I've tried on both, but in that game at least, M&K is superior.

I don't think the point is whether it's superior or not at all. I think it's just preference. If you like to sit at a desk and play games with a mouse and keyboard and have that precision that's GREAT.
If you like to sit at a desk and kit it with your 360 controller cool too.
If you like to sit back on your couch and play the game and chill and still have the power of a PC, then great for you.

It's all about what you're in the mood for. I could have played Tomb Raider on a mouse and keyboard at a desk easily and I probably would have been more accurate as well. But I wanted to sit back on the couch and it's a single player game vs PCs.

I think it's a testament to the game that it can be played in so many ways, not a point as to argue which way is the "best" which is just ridiculous.

 

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[showb1z]

Personally I switch between m/kb and controller in 3rd person games that feature a lot of gunplay. I can't aim with a controller for the life of me (screw auto-aim).
Might seem awkward, but it's a huge improvement for me over struggling with the controller to pull off a headshot. Just use whatever feels more comfortable, there is no "best".

A lot of people take issue with the QTE's in this game. But other than the first 30 minutes there are hardly any in there. And it's always the same button. I'd hardly call it real QTE's even. It's more of a button prompt, not some elaborate and infuriating combination.

 

[mikeymikec]

That's not a fact, that's your opinion. Quit trolling.

I'm raising my eyebrows at your response because you're the person who recently went on a KotoR thread and said that (IIRC) "Star Wars EP1 is better than KotoR" (though it might have been "the new SW trilogy" rather than EP1).

People in glass houses...

- edit - Ah yes, here it is, the post in question in its entirety:

Episode 3 > Kotor 1 & 2

 

[BSim500]

It's better to have granular control over movement with an analog stick, vs "only choice is stopped or running" as with a keyboard. You wouldn't want to be either 0 throttle or 100% throttle in a racing game, why would you want to be standing still or running full tilt boogie in a shooter?

You must be brand new to PC gaming then as PC mouse + keyb games have had walk/run/sprint/sneak key bindings for at least 15-20 years now...

 

[BrightCandle]

You must be brand new to PC gaming then as PC mouse + keyb games have had walk/run/sprint/sneak key bindings for at least 15-20 years now...

Not to mention lean and various stances that disappeared in a lot of games because the console didn't have enough buttons to do it all. Arma's stance and movement is excellent, but the xb1/ps4 could never support a game that complex, its just got too many keys just for movement let alone radios and the different settings on the weapons and maps and everything else.

Games are limited by the controller in a big way, they are limited by keyboard and mouse too.

 

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[BSim500]

Not to mention lean and various stances that disappeared in a lot of games because the console didn't have enough buttons to do it all.

I remember the original Operation Flashpoint : Forward, back, left, right, fast foward, slow forward, sprint, up & down altitude (helo), turn, dive, rudder, thrust, time acceleration/decceleration, 8-compass "head movement look" independent of movement direction via numerical keypad, stand, kneel, prone, 1-0 / F1-F12 squad command + map / compass / optics / binoculars / watch / change target / zoom / tactical, etc, keys all independent of mouse-look & the excellent middle-click + scroll wheel menu... These days even a simple "lean L/R" or even a non-contextual "jump" key on FPS's seems "too difficult", bless them...

I think it's clear that they were talking about 0-100% within each 'stance', ie. 0-100% of walk, 0-100% of run, etc.

Yeah I know, but even the 100% vs 0% speed claim that isn't correct as pretty much all game engines do still gradually accelerate you for the first second of each press, so you do indeed have some gradual speed increase control with light taps / temporary key releases where its needed most. And the 52.834% vs 50% forward speed granularity kinda pales in importance compared to a 3x increase in turning & aiming speed with a mouse without "cheat mode" (auto-aim) enabled. :biggrin:

Personally, I think controllers do have their place on PC's. What annoys a lot of people though is that it's really not that hard to optimize 3rd person PC games for keyb + mouse for the PC version (it being the standard default universal PC control method and platform on which the games are actually developed), and if 2007-era cross platform 3rd person games can play fine on a PC with Keyb+Mouse (Mass Effect, etc), there's little excuse for 2013 games to not do so beyond developer laziness of expecting PC gamers to rush out and buy a controller for the sole purpose of handling over-spammed consolized QTE cheese. (And even with console controllers, for 3rd-person games you often still end up fighting iffy "jumpy" camera controls especially in tight enclosed spaces.)

Edit: There's nothing wrong with the option of a controller, but when it becomes popular enough that "plug in a controller" becomes an automatic excuse to not bother optimizing for a keyboard / mouse due to lazy porting, then there is indeed a dumbing down problem.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Lol you guys keep saying dumbing down like you are so superior. It really sounds entitled and pathetic. Also no, the game starting you at walk for a second when you press the key doesnt even get close to being able to hold the analog stick slightly in a direction to get a walking speed as long as you desire.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The mouse is a better tool for moving the view port (whether first-person, or a floating camera), but the analog thumbstick is a FAR FAR superior method for controlling movement.

It's better to have granular control over movement with an analog stick, vs "only choice is stopped or running" as with a keyboard. You wouldn't want to be either 0 throttle or 100% throttle in a racing game, why would you want to be standing still or running full tilt boogie in a shooter?

this! and anyone arguing a controller is dumbing down anything or that people using a controller are "console peasents" or any other argument against a controller is simply butthurt that analog sticks offer better 3D movement.

 

[futurefields]

I'm raising my eyebrows at your response because you're the person who recently went on a KotoR thread and said that (IIRC) "Star Wars EP1 is better than KotoR" (though it might have been "the new SW trilogy" rather than EP1).

People in glass houses...

- edit - Ah yes, here it is, the post in question in its entirety:

What is your point? I stated an opinion? This is not relevant at all...

 

[ImpulsE69]

Lol you guys keep saying dumbing down like you are so superior. It really sounds entitled and pathetic. Also no, the game starting you at walk for a second when you press the key doesnt even get close to being able to hold the analog stick slightly in a direction to get a walking speed as long as you desire.

Dumbing down is a generic term. It means rather than having choices (like options in attack methods for instance), you get instead a QTE. While sure, sometimes they make sense to progress a story, they are WAY overused in the console world these days and seen as an easy out. Those translate to being dumbed down in PC because you have a fricking keyboard with a hundred and some odd keys at your disposal.

If we want to go further, simply having graphics options, or M/KB options is another big example. It is amazing how many just forgo them.

The opposite could be said if a game actually used all those keys as well.

 

[sweenish]

This argument has been brought up by console players before in vain attempts to defend the superiority of the controller, and its just as stale now. 99.99% of the time, this is an irrelevant aspect and hardly worth even bringing up. Fact remains, the K+B is the superior control system for all genres except racing, fighting, and flight sims. You may prefer the controller, but you're still at a disadvantage with it compared to a K+M user.

TR2013 has great controls though. At no point in the entire game do you feel like you're fighting the game's controls. Its almost perfect. Movements are smooth and natural, action keys work, etc. Crystal did a fantastic job with it. For 5 dollars, it worth every penny. I think the GOTY Edition was 7.50, which has all the DLC for it. DLC was mostly worthless though.

That's not a fact, that's your opinion. Quit trolling.

^ This all day long.

Touting KB/M superiority the way you do just shows ignorance. Controllers have been a part of PC for a long time, well before consoles were mainstream appliances. There's a reason for that.

Plenty of people feel that a controller suits them better. Whether it's in all games or only a few types, the controller will always have a place in PC gaming.

I personally use a controller for platformers, most third person games, JRPGs, and a few others. I use what I feel works best for me in a particular type of game. For you it's KB/M most of the time. Good for you. That doesn't automatically make it better for everyone.

I think I used a controller for TR, but I can see myself using either for that game. It's essentially a shooter, and I did use KB/M for Spec Ops, which is a third person shooter.

 

[Dankk]

Wow, did this thread seriously de-evolve into an M+KB vs gamepad argument?

One is not objectively better than the other. They both have their strengths; a mouse has excellent precision for aiming, and a gamepad is great for providing analog movement control.

Which is better depends entirely on the game you're playing. That said, I played Tomb Raider 2013 with a gamepad.

 

[Bateluer]

Wow, did this thread seriously de-evolve into an M+KB vs gamepad argument?

There is no debate. There is Master Race and there is peasantry.

 

[futurefields]

There is no debate. There is Master Race and there is peasantry.

And there are idiots ^^