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Tom Vilsack Agriculture secretary

G

Genx87

Lifer
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI...sition.wrap/index.html

Vilsack has championed the development of ethanol, an alternative energy, in Iowa -- something that coincides with Obama's vision for an energy-independent future, and something he can promote from the Department of Agriculture.
Click to expand...

I sense a contiunation with corn ethanol at the expense of the tax payer and our future requirement to get off oil. This was one area that worried me about Obama. His stance on corn ethanol is imo a roadblock to developing better sources of alternative energy. This pick only reinforces this fear. I understand the media labels is "ethanol". But being from Iowa I dont see him advocating sugarcane ethanol.

Edit: Didnt know there was an official cabinet thread. Feel free to lock. Ill repost.


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The summary was changed by request to remove confusion about this thread being an announcement on the position or the impact of the announcement.

The thread does not need to be locked.

The post below was legit in the original context of the thread title/summary.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
CORN-BASED Ethanol is a great scam pulled over the eyes of the ignorant. I had hoped that Obama wasn't that ignorant. Silly me.
Click to expand...

Fixed for you.

Ethanol is a great fuel, and can be a very good thing going forward, we just need to figure out how to make it out of switchgrass / sugar cane, instead of cutting our nose off to spite our face by making it out of corn.
 
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Ethanol is a great scam pulled over the eyes of the ignorant.

I had hoped that Obama wasn't that ignorant.

Silly me.
Click to expand...

While it is dissapointing what did you possibibly expect him to do with what was put in place the last 8 years?

How do instantly un-do the damage?

I would like to see the corn subsidizing the be cut back drastically.

I would like to see Ethanol made from other sources other than corn.

Will this happen?

Sadly doesn't look that way.

Corruption breeds corruption.

I never said Obama and the Democrats would un-do or erase the bad poltics.

It's just a matter of one thing, survival.

Would the U.S. continue to survive under the full control the Republicans had as it was going?

Certainly didn't look that way.

Will the U.S. survive under the nearly full control of the Democrats?

Time will tell.

They can easily fuvk it up as bad or even worse than Republicans, never said that wasn't a possibility but at least had to change at the controls.
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
While it is dissapointing what did you possibibly expect him to do with what was put in place the last 8 years?

How do instantly un-do the damage?

I would like to see the corn subsidizing the be cut back drastically.

I would like to see Ethanol made from other sources other than corn.

Will this happen?

Sadly doesn't look that way.

Corruption breeds corruption.

I never said Obama and the Democrats would un-do or erase the bad poltics.

It's just a matter of one thing, survival.

Would the U.S. continue to survive under the full control the Republicans had as it was going?

Certainly didn't look that way.

Will the U.S. survive under the nearly full control of the Democrats?

Time will tell.

They can easily fuvk it up as bad or even worse than Republicans, never said that wasn't a possibility but at least had to change at the controls.
Click to expand...
WTF is wrong with you? You took my perfectly structured post, quoted it, and put it in your own idiotic style where paragraphs don't exist? I believe I learned about paragraphs in first grade or so, but I could be wrong. Surely the most educated person on the intertubes made it that far in school...
 
Originally posted by: ebaycj
Fixed for you.

Ethanol is a great fuel, and can be a very good thing going forward, we just need to figure out how to make it out of switchgrass / sugar cane, instead of cutting our nose off to spite our face by making it out of corn.
Click to expand...
Seriously? There is a reason that I said it's a great scam for the ignorant. Thanks for proving my point. While it is true that ethanol has a very high energy density, it has numerous problems for being a fuel in and of itself. But, since you feel comfortable in correcting me on the issue, I can only assume any attempts to explain safety, processing, or combustion-related concerns will be a waste of my time. Enjoy your bliss.
 
Vilsack was a corn state ex governor, and at the time, corn based ethanol was the only existing commercially feasible option. Sadly, the same is true today, because corn based ethanol is basically the only viable
bio fuel technology in the USA.

I will be the first to say, what is wrong with that picture? Because I too agree, that while bio fuels are a great idea, corn based ethanol take too much fossil fuel inputs to be something we can base a bio fuel industry on. We need far more research on a crash basis and I don't know where Vilsack is on that point.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Vilsack was a corn state ex governor, and at the time, corn based ethanol was the only existing commercially feasible option. Sadly, the same is true today, because corn based ethanol is basically the only viable
bio fuel technology in the USA.

I will be the first to say, what is wrong with that picture? Because I too agree, that while bio fuels are a great idea, corn based ethanol take too much fossil fuel inputs to be something we can base a bio fuel industry on. We need far more research on a crash basis and I don't know where Vilsack is on that point.
Click to expand...

You mean with the massive subsidies we give them? And its still cheaper to produce in Brazil....
 
not liking this appointment at all, but it would be hard to find someone with an ag dept background that isn't pro-ethanol these days.

Personally i think that biofuels are the future, or at least a major part of it, but corn based ethanol is NOT it.
 
Sugar cane based ethanol is far more viable in Brazil, but face the facts, almost all of US farmland is not suited to sugar cane, and a very cold temperatures not typical in Brazil but typical of winters in the US make the extensive use of nearly pure ethanol problematic. Other plants able to make some sort of soy diesel may be a better alternative, but its the real basic research that is lacking. But any such alternative will be land and ag based, even if its algae, and the US farmer will benefit along with the entire country. As it is, corn prices have risen to a level that makes its use as a biofuel commercially dubious.

We may have to use plant genetics and gene splicing to bio engineer a new plant to meet the needs. A research friendly ag secretary would be helpful, but a multi faceted research funding could be tacked to many areas of government. I too agree that the switchgrass idea should also be looked at.

But the other fact to be noted is that its not the guy on top that will make the breakthroughs, it will be those lonely guys and gals in some lab that will stumble
on the breakthroughs that change everything. In the history of science, things are usually discovered by accident. All the basic technologies are now available, now we need the research funding to find them.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
corn based ethanol is basically the only viable
bio fuel technology in the USA.
Click to expand...
WRONG. Bio-diesel is very viable.
corn based ethanol take too much fossil fuel inputs to be something we can base a bio fuel industry on.
Click to expand...

I sure hope you aren't trying to suggest it takes more energy to produce than it puts out, because Pimental is the only kook who suggests that. All the reputable studies show there is a net gain.
And yes, other types of ethanol will provide an even bigger gain but we aren't quite there yet but we have been making very good progress in the cellulosic area which includes switchgrass and just about anything else you can grow. However, I dare say that Hemp shows the biggest promise....now if we could just start growing hemp again...
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Lemon law
corn based ethanol is basically the only viable
bio fuel technology in the USA.
Click to expand...
WRONG. Bio-diesel is very viable.
corn based ethanol take too much fossil fuel inputs to be something we can base a bio fuel industry on.
Click to expand...

I sure hope you aren't trying to suggest it takes more energy to produce than it puts out, because Pimental is the only kook who suggests that. All the reputable studies show there is a net gain.
And yes, other types of ethanol will provide an even bigger gain but we aren't quite there yet but we have been making very good progress in the cellulosic area which includes switchgrass and just about anything else you can grow. However, I dare say that Hemp shows the biggest promise....now if we could just start growing hemp again...
Click to expand...
You friggin dirty hippies again with your hemp...
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Lemon law
corn based ethanol is basically the only viable
bio fuel technology in the USA.
Click to expand...
WRONG. Bio-diesel is very viable.
corn based ethanol take too much fossil fuel inputs to be something we can base a bio fuel industry on.
Click to expand...

I sure hope you aren't trying to suggest it takes more energy to produce than it puts out, because Pimental is the only kook who suggests that. All the reputable studies show there is a net gain.
And yes, other types of ethanol will provide an even bigger gain but we aren't quite there yet but we have been making very good progress in the cellulosic area which includes switchgrass and just about anything else you can grow. However, I dare say that Hemp shows the biggest promise....now if we could just start growing hemp again...
Click to expand...
You friggin dirty hippies again with your hemp...
Click to expand...

You know how many uses hemp has? It's F'n unbelievable the amount of crap we can use that plant for...but some people don't like that it looks "bad"...probably the same types of people who dislike "bad" looking guns... 😉
 
In terms of corn based ethanol, there is no doubt there is an net energy gain, the problem is that there is too little of an energy gain compared to the requited fossil fuel required inputs to make corn based ethanol
a good future platform. If a better existing plant can't be found in nature, gene splicing may be required to bio engineer something more viable. And yes, existing hemp genes could be part of that process.
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Lemon law
corn based ethanol is basically the only viable
bio fuel technology in the USA.
Click to expand...
WRONG. Bio-diesel is very viable.
corn based ethanol take too much fossil fuel inputs to be something we can base a bio fuel industry on.
Click to expand...

I sure hope you aren't trying to suggest it takes more energy to produce than it puts out, because Pimental is the only kook who suggests that. All the reputable studies show there is a net gain.
And yes, other types of ethanol will provide an even bigger gain but we aren't quite there yet but we have been making very good progress in the cellulosic area which includes switchgrass and just about anything else you can grow. However, I dare say that Hemp shows the biggest promise....now if we could just start growing hemp again...
Click to expand...
You friggin dirty hippies again with your hemp...
Click to expand...

You know how many uses hemp has? It's F'n unbelievable the amount of crap we can use that plant for...but some people don't like that it looks "bad"...probably the same types of people who dislike "bad" looking guns... 😉
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Originally posted by: alien42
i suggest the behind the times right wingers in this thread do a little research on cellulosic ehtanol.
Click to expand...

Well, ethanol generically is misunderstood by both sides and they tend to latch on to misinformation that allows them to continue to not understand it's usefullness.

<- tree huggin hippie "right winger"
 
in time we'll have a better ethanol source & process, but keeping that option on the table is the only way we get there in the end...had there just been more 'drill baby drill' nonsense, it's likely any progress on ethanol would have been shut down or greatly slowed
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY


You know how many uses hemp has? It's F'n unbelievable the amount of crap we can use that plant for..
Click to expand...


How could anyone not be moved by such an elegant, persuasive and well thought out argument.























:laugh:

 
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