"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[SunnyD]

if you aren't doing whatever it takes to win, i wouldn't want you on my team, as well as it's within boundaries of the rules, and being borderline on the rules is fine by me.

also, how is he arrogant? because he is a winner that makes him arrogant?

and when you are the best of the best, you HAVE to have a little arrogance and cockiness. you don't get there by being a pushover.

You obviously missed the asterisk when it comes to the "whatever it takes" part. The pats sure are creative when it comes to that "whatever it takes" part, aren't they? Several fines and forfeited draft picks later.

Brady has plenty of former teammates that have gone on record as saying that yes he has a very rigorous work ethic and competitive spirit which I'm sure can conceivably mistaken as poor sportsmanship...

 

[purbeast0]

You obviously missed the asterisk when it comes to the "whatever it takes" part. The pats sure are creative when it comes to that "whatever it takes" part, aren't they? Several fines and forfeited draft picks later.

Brady has plenty of former teammates that have gone on record as saying that yes he has a very rigorous work ethic and competitive spirit which I'm sure can conceivably mistaken as poor sportsmanship...

eh the pats got caught doing what everyone else does too, they just got caught. and they got punished (deservedly so).

i'd still rather the redskins get caught cheating at least tryign to get a competitive advantage rather than have another 3-13 season and sucking as usual. at least it shows they are trying their hardest.

usually "poor sportsmanship" statements come from losing teams. newsflash - these guys at the most elite level aren't out there to make friends with other teams. they are out there to do 1 thing - win. if my team was whooping your teams ass i wouldn't give 2 shits what you thought about me.

i remember when the patriots beat the redskins like 57-7. as a redskins fan i had absolutely NO problem with the pats running the score up. i was all for it. some people call that poor sportsmanship too, but at the most elite level, i can't consider that poor sportsmanship.

 

[edro]

i remember when the patriots beat the redskins like 57-7. as a redskins fan i had absolutely NO problem with the pats running the score up. i was all for it. some people call that poor sportsmanship too, but at the most elite level, i can't consider that poor sportsmanship.

I agree.

Ohio State ran up the score on Wisconsin... which led to them getting into the playoff, which led to a National Championship.

If you agree to compete, you agree to finish the game to your best ability.
I will never complain about running up the score at that level.

 

[TraumaRN]

I agree.

Ohio State ran up the score on Wisconsin... which led to them getting into the playoff, which led to a National Championship.

If you agree to compete, you agree to finish the game to your best ability.
I will never complain about running up the score at that level.

100% agree, it's not about being nice, it's about winning.

I can think of other examples of teams pushing the rulebooks in game, one in the college level, the other in the NFL but they both are pushing the same rule. Defensive pass interference. Both the Seahawks in the pros and the Michigan State Spartans in college have their cornerbacks/safety get handsy/rough/bump opposing teams WRs pretty consistently knowing that the refs won't throw a flag on every single play for PI, and now you're seeing that style starting to spread amongst both college and pro teams. Sure it might be frustrating to watch if you're an opposing team but good teams do what it takes to win.

I honestly think if you're not pushing the boundaries of the rules then you're not 100% committed to winning.

 

[zinfamous]

i remember when the patriots beat the redskins like 57-7. as a redskins fan i had absolutely NO problem with the pats running the score up. i was all for it. some people call that poor sportsmanship too, but at the most elite level, i can't consider that poor sportsmanship.

Yeah, there really should be no issue with that, especially at the pro level. The defense should be utterly embarrassed to let something like that happen.

They simply failed to do their job. No reason the pros on the other side of the field should stop doing their job simply because they are dealing with a bunch of clowns. Considering how much those assholes are paid, there is no excuse to let a team run up that many points.

(granted, scores like that tend to fall heavily on to the offense as well: turnovers, repeated inability to convert first downs, etc). I guess it isn't fair to blame the D entirely.

 

[smackababy]

i remember when the patriots beat the redskins like 57-7. as a redskins fan i had absolutely NO problem with the pats running the score up. i was all for it. some people call that poor sportsmanship too, but at the most elite level, i can't consider that poor sportsmanship.

If a team "takes it easy", it doesn't accurately reflect on the appropriate level of each team. Not running up the score actually does a disservice to the losing team, as they may think "oh, we are at a level where we only lose to [winning team], by a few points" when in reality, they are so far under them.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

more butthurt crybaby garbage

seriously, sports fans are even worse than apple fans when it comes to warping reality to suit the bs dreams they've been sold

 

[BUTCH1]

That isn't necessarily it--at least not all of it.

First and foremost is Brady can be viewed as a beneficiary of the "Patriot Way." Player after player was churned over as a commodity (Bill mastered the new NFL before everyone else imo) with the exception of Brady. Huge stars were pretty much cast off when their cost/benefit analysis wasn't deemed in the Patriot's favor.

Which goes back to his first 4 seasons when they won 3 Super Bowls. Brady wasn't deemed a top tier quarterback like Farve, Manning, Warner, Gannon, McNabb, or even a McNair or Garcia. Brady was viewed -- MUCH LIKE RUSSELL WILSON -- to be the beneficiary of a great team.

(IMO it is overlooked that great QB play isn't limited to attempts/yards/touchdowns but also turnovers and taking risks when needed to get the key first down, not necessarily volume. Brady was good about playing within his system/limits unlike other top tier QBs who either by their nature couldn't control themselves [Farve, who I love] or had to make up for their teams).

Part of the hate is the tuck rule. He didn't make the rule but he benefited. Which goes back to the "he is more lucky than good."

Winning a couple Super Bowls by thin margins against teams like Carolina doesn't help. Nor the fact a kicker (!) winning an MVP over the QB.

The perception of Bill cheating before the Ram game hurts, too. Not just the background chatter of taping but the actual game. Everyone wants to talk about how Seattle holds and PIs (and hence the rule changes) even if a number of studies show they didn't do so more than others. But Bill absolutely took advantage of the soft playoff officiating and had his DBs mugging the Colts and Rams. It was obnoxious and not normal (despite what Patriot fans will tell you) for the time. It isn't a foul if the refs don't call it. This was a "let them play" ref mentality and it didn't sit well with a lot of non-Boston area fans. Brady benefited from such.

Brady also isn't always viewed (right or wrong) as a very nice "guy" in regards to football. Part of this is a projection of the Patriot way. Part of that is his berating of teammates. Comments about hold outs. Saying f*** on TV like he did during the Green Bay game.

And it didn't help his image our America when the headlines were he cheated/dumped his pregnant girl friend for a Super Model. Doesn't even matter what the truth it. Even without a lot of women fans (at the time) guys wives/girlfriends saying, "Hey, do you know that famous QB guy who always wins?" He got a girl pregnant and cheated on her! What a scum bag." The obvious result is no sane man would root for Brady with that gal around. You don't counter back, "Well, in Tom's defense, she was a crazy woman and they weren't really together." WRONG ANSWER.



There is some of that. But that is far from the entire Tom Brady story.

Wow, where to begin, first off during the "tuck" game that rule called by Walt Coleman allowed the Pat's to tie the game and force OT. In OT the Raiders got the ball first and did NOTHING, NE had to drive around 60yds to get into position for AV to kick the winning FG, plenty of opportunity's to stop the Pat's, they failed. As for the ongoing wining from the ex-Rams players not a single shred of credible evidence has ever come forward that their walk-through was taped, in fact during NE's walk-through a house across the street had an open window in the 3rd floor WITH A TELESCOPE POINTED AT THE FIELD, clearly visible to club and league officials, link.As for the aggressive play by the NE DB's and LB's, yea, guess what?, it's a SB and the "let 'em play" rule-set is in which benefited NE's D greatly but can you blame the players if officials are not calling PI?, nope, it's the SB. That works both ways though as while Eli was busy avoiding the Patriot pass-rush for the miracle "helmet-catch" the Giant's O-line basically tackled NE defenders from behind in order to prevent the sack of Eli. Ever wonder how he avoided big Seymour's jersey-grab?, he was taken down from behind but again, it's the SB and the last 2 min. of the SB as well, Ref's are simply not going to bring that play back on an offensive holding call. Live by the sword, die by the sword, I always thought Harrison should have been able to dislodge that ball anyway but he failed. As far as winning SB's by narrow margins, should anyone be surprised at that?, we're talking about the 2 best teams playing, these games are supposed to be close, hard-fought games and they were. TB also completely supports his first child, it was a failed relationship, the only one's who know what it was like to be in that situation were the 2 people involved, it's completely worthless to slap a label on someone when you have ZERO knowledge of that dynamic.

 

[SunnyD]

seriously, sports fans are even worse than apple fans when it comes to warping reality to suit the bs dreams they've been sold

You know how I know you're a die-hard Pats fan?

 

[The Boston Dangler]

You know how I know you're a die-hard Pats fan?

is it my objectivity in saying what the league has done to this team and its player is way, way out of line and shouldn't happen to any team?

 

[zinfamous]

I thought I would never miss the whole Tim Tebow discussion.

amazing.

 

[ControlD]

seriously, sports fans are even worse than apple fans when it comes to warping reality to suit the bs dreams they've been sold

A true statement that seems to fit both sides of this debate.

 

[BUTCH1]

A true statement that seems to fit both sides of this debate.

Yea, somewhat, as a Pat's fan I read the text's and had to come to the conclusion something was going on. That being said the voracity in the manner they went after the Patriots an stunning lack of integrity that the league has displayed while doing so is a very sad look for the those in charge. I can honestly say that had this been Rodgers, Manning, Romo, I would not want to see any of these star players off the field unless what they did was substantially above letting 1/2lb of PSI out of the ball. I'm also amazed that anyone (knowing how Goodell is) would be dumb enough to text back and forth about it, without those messages and 3 different groups all saying the balls were about where they should have been (using the ideal gas laws) the league would not have enough to come after anyone. I know there have been plenty of folks who have said "gee, if only they were honest and open up front about this it would have never been where it is now" and that would seem to make sense, but ask the Saints about how that went for them with "Bountygate". They cooperated 100% with the league and got jack-hammered anyway. What irks me more than anything is that in a similar situation absolutely zero punishment was meted out, the NFL describes the Vikings incident as "just some ball boys who didn't know better", yea OK, if it were legal wouldn't EVERY cold-weather team feature ball-heating?, you bet it would and who was to benefit from that?, the Vikings QB of course, was he not "generally aware" that he was handling a toasty-warm ball on a frigid 8 degree day?, I would have to say yea, he knew the ball was warmed up to make gripping/trowing it much easier, certainly more of a benefit than 1/2lb of PSI missing IMHO. So now the NFL will most likely (due to article 46 of the CBA) prevail, and one of the best QB's playing will sit for 1/4 of the season. I guess the NFLPA didn't worry too much about giving the commissioner that much power because his predecessor (Tagliabue) rarely used it. With Brady missing owners who are scheduled to play the Pat's (outside of Foxborough) will see plenty of unsold seats, I wonder if they will love their Fuhrer when that happens.

 

[emperus]

Interesting start to the hearing

“I’m trying to figure out what is the direct evidence that implicates Mr. Brady in that deflation in that bathroom on Jan. 18,” Berman said according to New York Daily News Manhattan Federal Court reporter Stephen Brown. “I don’t know what to make of that finding Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the activities of (Jim) McNally and (John) Jastremski.”
http://patch.com/massachusetts/foxborough/deflategate-judge-where-direct-evidence-towards-brady-0

 

[Fingolfin269]

I did enjoy this leading up to the portion regarding evidence:

https://twitter.com/PPVSRB/status/631494399206166529

[/QUOTE]Berman: Turns out Mr. Brady did better with higher inflated balls than underinflated balls. You might say he got no competitive advantage

 

[emperus]

The only issue I see with the first part of this hearing is the science. The judge and still a lot of people don't understand that all Balls in cold weather will deflate. So, every quarterback who's played in a cold weather game will have played with deflated footballs (under 12.5 PSI) at some point during the game and there in not one quarterback who will say they were aware of it.

 

[Phokus]

The only issue I see with the first part of this hearing is the science. The judge and still a lot of people don't understand that all Balls in cold weather will deflate. So, every quarterback who's played in a cold weather game will have played with deflated footballs (under 12.5 PSI) at some point during the game and there in not one quarterback who will say they were aware of it.

The biggest issue is that Troy Vincent admitted on the stand that he didn't consider 'science' when looking at deflation, which is absolutely unbelievable to me.

 

[cabri]

The biggest issue is that Troy Vincent admitted on the stand that he didn't consider 'science' when looking at deflation, which is absolutely unbelievable to me.

Science would have challenge the justification.

So ignore science.

Like the Salem Witch Trials

 

[Fingolfin269]

They better figure out that science matters soon. Otherwise there are going to be a lot of teams in December getting slammed for being under the limit at half time now that this is being scrutinized so closely.

 

[TheGardener]

Both sides are appearing before Judge Berman. Now the Boston Herald is a Homer for the Patriots. That's a given. Still I'd like to read a complete transcript of today's testimony. BH reports on a few questions and comments. Seems to favor Brady which is why the complete transcript is critical.

The judge also questioned if evidence exists that Brady knew specifically deflating of footballs would happen before the AFC Championship game.
When Nash admitted “not for that specific game,” Berman delivered one of his zingers.
“Wow, that's the only game we're talking about,” he said.

Berman grilled the NFL over the standard they used to hold Brady accountable in the Wells Report. Wells said it was “more probable than not” that Brady was “generally aware” of the plan to deflate balls.
But Berman didn’t seem satisfied with the “more probable than not” description.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...both_sides_as_tom_brady_and_nfl_meet_in_court

 

[waggy]

So now the NFL will most likely (due to article 46 of the CBA) prevail,

no..they are more likely to lose. why? science.

i forgot this was going on today. sounds like the judge wants something odd. something called proof.

weird.

 

[TheGardener]

Another report on the hearing. From nfl.com.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...c-portion-of-brady-settlement-conference-ends

For those stuck on Brady's guilt or innocence, PSI science or who said what to whom, this nfl.com article outlines what Judge Berman's role is.

What is Berman deciding?

Not Brady's guilt or innocence or whether he thinks the four-game penalty is too harsh or too light. He is rendering an opinion on the process. Can Goodell suspend for failure to cooperate? Can he suspend for tampering with equipment? Was he an impartial arbitrator in the appeal? In briefs filed late last week, the players' union attacked the fairness of the proceedings and the lack of notice that a player could be suspended for the transgressions that the league believes Brady was involved in. The league's response was that the commissioner's powers to discipline come from the collective bargaining agreement. There are other interesting nuggets in there: The league said, for instance, that the independence of Ted Wells' investigation -- which it had long touted -- is irrelevant because it is not required by the CBA.


Berman will be making a straight up-or-down decision. He either upholds the commissioner's power, which would allow the four-game suspension to stand, or he will side with the union, and the entire suspension will be vacated. What he won't do: decide something in between those two options.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...courage-tom-brady-nfl-to-settle-in-conference

What the judge is trying to do is to get both sides to settle, so he doesn't have to make a judgement.

 

[waggy]

Another report on the hearing. From nfl.com.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...c-portion-of-brady-settlement-conference-ends

lol the first question they need answered is Were the balls really under inflated or did they lose inflation due to temperature. science says they would be under inflated due to temp.

once the judge rules on that they can decide what "he should have known" means.

 

[TheGardener]

lol the first question they need answered is Were the balls really under inflated or did they lose inflation due to temperature. science says they would be under inflated due to temp.

once the judge rules on that they can decide what "he should have known" means.

I edited the post while you were writing your response. Please reread.

 

[digiram]

Goodell pretty much wants Brady to admit guilt because he initially stood by the false leak by Mortenson and can't turn back on it now. Garbage!! I believe Brady and the Pats did nothing wrong at all at this point. All the NFL has done is spin everything try to make Brady look guilty because of that stupid non-sense false report. I've notice the NFL and ESPN barely took any notice into the transcript that went public as well. This just looks really bad for ESPN and the NFL right now.