"Tom Brady prefer his balls to feel a certain way" - balls underinflated

[IndyColtsFan]

Again, we are on a technology forum. So, I'm assuming you took basic Physics in College. It is a fact that the ball will deflate due to a decrease in temperature. Are you still arguing that?

I'm not arguing that at all. I'm arguing exactly what I stated and which you conveniently ignore - there are incriminating text messages pretty much stating that the equipment guys were messing with the inflation of the balls. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

Here's the difference between a Patriots fan (you) and me:

NEWS STORY: Deflategate - texts show equipment guys messed with ball inflation
PATRIOTS FAN: "But...but..everyone does it! It must have been the weather! It doesn't matter that those guys practically admitted to it, it HAD to be the weather!!!!!"

NEW STORY: Robert Mathis suspended for violation / Irsay suspended (or insert any action against the Colts)
ICF: "The dumbass deserves it."

As I have said REPEATEDLY, the ball inflation made no difference to the game. The Patriots were going to win no matter what. However, they apparently broke the rules, knew it, and tried to hide it and were dumb enough to get caught. Brady clearly was trying to impede the investigation. Sorry, no sympathy here.

Poor Pat fans, still clinging to their "science" argument to deflect from Brady's obstruction of justice. BTW you forgot to include equations with avogadro's number, lmao. 6.022x10^23 ftw

Not to mention arguing science when the equipment guys pretty much admitted they were messing with the inflation in the first place. But yes, emperus is conveniently ignoring what is probably the MAIN reason Brady got hammered - his complete, total, and very intentional lack of cooperation.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Question: Did the Patriots admit to and accept a penalty for Spygate?
Question: Have the Tampa Bay Buccaneers ever been accused of cheating?

The defense rests.

Yes, the Buccaneers have cheated. Please stop with your ignorance.

http://www.foxsports.com/florida/st...d-to-have-super-bowl-footballs-scuffed-012115

http://www.bucsnation.com/2012/10/1...skins-how-headset-cheating-is-hurting-the-nfl

 

[purbeast0]

Yes, the Buccaneers have cheated. Please stop with your ignorance.

http://www.foxsports.com/florida/st...d-to-have-super-bowl-footballs-scuffed-012115

http://www.bucsnation.com/2012/10/1...skins-how-headset-cheating-is-hurting-the-nfl

uh-owned!

 

[cabri]

This.

Just more mental gymnastics from Pats fans. Of course it technically doesn't "prove" he cheated, but he was effectively destroying evidence as you quoted above. If he was so innocent, why destroy it? Why not exonerate himself? I think we all know why he destroyed it, including Patriots fans but they'd rather wallow in their tears of delusion instead.

I've said it before and I'll keep repeating it - an article linked earlier in the thread said he destroyed it THE SAME DAY AS HIS INTERVIEW with Wells. Go ahead and spin that Patriots fans - I need the lulz today.

Brady had a habit of having previous phones and the SIM cards destroyed when he was issued a new phone.

This destruction was not a one time deal.
The NFL knew this per testimony by Brady.

Who made the decision to issue him a new phone and when?

 

[SP33Demon]

1.) They had every phone of every non NFLPA employee (even Belichick's)
2.) No the logical thing for Full Cooperation is to fully cooperate. The NFL doesn't get to decide what that is. If they asked for a full body cavity search for you and your wife. Would u deem that not cooperating?

Then don't give them the phone until they get the court order. Destroying the phone the same day after refusing elevates things to a whole other level of escalation because now all of the evidence on the phone is gone, and not possible to be obtained even with a court order.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampering_with_evidence
Brady is lucky this isn't a criminal investigation.
Tampering with evidence is also closely related to obstruction of justice / perverting the course of justice, and these two kinds of crimes are often charged together. The goal of tampering with evidence is usually to cover up a crime.

Brady destroyed evidence that could have been gathered by the NFL at a later date. He would be in prison for two crimes if this was in a criminal court of law.

 

[Phoenix86]

that said, it's FAR from being a criminal activity. the analogy with the wife, as well as the nfl investigation, has absolutely nothing to do with the law.

Until it does, like when you bring it to a court room in a civil trial.

a finder of fact can draw from a party's destruction of a document or thing that is relevant to an ongoing or reasonably foreseeable civil or criminal proceeding: the finder of fact can review all evidence uncovered in as strong a light as possible against the spoliator and in favor of the opposing party.

So a fact finder could determine it means he's guilty simply because he destroyed it. Also...

In a criminal case, this would be a new charge.
In a civil case, depending on where it's filed, it could allow the court to make Brady pay damages to the NFL.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Brady had a habit of having previous phones and the SIM cards destroyed when he was issued a new phone.

This destruction was not a one time deal.
The NFL knew this per testimony by Brady.

Who made the decision to issue him a new phone and when?

According to an article posted earlier in this thread, it was destroyed the same day as his interview with the Wells investigation. If true, his excuse of "I always destroy my old phones!" is pretty lame.

 

[emperus]

Poor Pat fans, still clinging to their "science" argument to deflect from Brady's obstruction of justice. BTW you forgot to include equations with avogadro's number, lmao. 6.022x10^23 ftw

It's telling you thought this post made you look good. Lol.. Science Argument?.. lol.. It's generally just called Science.

 

[Phoenix86]

Ask yourself, why would they need Tom Brady's phone?

And here we go, this is the problem with destruction of evidence. We can never answer that question now that it's destroyed.

You can speculate, maybe he talked to someone else about it in detail.

 

[SP33Demon]

Yes, the Buccaneers have cheated. Please stop with your ignorance.

http://www.foxsports.com/florida/st...d-to-have-super-bowl-footballs-scuffed-012115

http://www.bucsnation.com/2012/10/1...skins-how-headset-cheating-is-hurting-the-nfl

Somebody cannot read. You are linking to non-verified rumors where the Bucs were never charged with anything. A lot different than Spygate which was charged, penalized, and admitted to by the Pats. You are quite frankly a retard if you think a rumor is the same as an admission of guilt and with paid penalty. This is why the Pats are under the microscope more than any other team.

 

[SP33Demon]

According to an article posted earlier in this thread, it was destroyed the same day as his interview with the Wells investigation. If true, his excuse of "I always destroy my old phones!" is pretty lame.

Yep, and it was already proven false that Brady always destroys his old phones which is why his excuse was laughable.

 

[cabri]

My question for this whole thing is:

Why the fuck is this even going to court when the NFLPA agreed to the scope and format of arbitration when they signed off on the CBA in the first place?

The NFLPA basically allowed for this to happen, Brady needs to suck it up and move on with his asterisks.

Maybe if an impartial arbitrator was reviewing the case, there would not be the concern.

Goodell requested the investigation; signed off on the report and now is acting as the Judge, Jury and Executioner with the respect to the appeal.

There is no indication of any impartiality about it.

He could not back up the Wells report; so decided to issue a tap dance to "justify" his standing by the decision.

The NFLPA expected that any arbitrator would actually be a third party and impartial. Goodell has done an end around; using the letter vs the spirit of the agreement to go after the Pats and Brady.

 

[emperus]

I'm not arguing that at all. I'm arguing exactly what I stated and which you conveniently ignore - there are incriminating text messages pretty much stating that the equipment guys were messing with the inflation of the balls. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

Here's the difference between a Patriots fan (you) and me:

NEWS STORY: Deflategate - texts show equipment guys messed with ball inflation
PATRIOTS FAN: "But...but..everyone does it! It must have been the weather! It doesn't matter that those guys practically admitted to it, it HAD to be the weather!!!!!"

NEW STORY: Robert Mathis suspended for violation / Irsay suspended (or insert any action against the Colts)
ICF: "The dumbass deserves it."

As I have said REPEATEDLY, the ball inflation made no difference to the game. The Patriots were going to win no matter what. However, they apparently broke the rules, knew it, and tried to hide it and were dumb enough to get caught. Brady clearly was trying to impede the investigation. Sorry, no sympathy here.



Not to mention arguing science when the equipment guys pretty much admitted they were messing with the inflation in the first place. But yes, emperus is conveniently ignoring what is probably the MAIN reason Brady got hammered - his complete, total, and very intentional lack of cooperation.

You seem to have not read the Wells Report or any subsequent articles or analysis that came out after the fact.

If you can find me any text that anyone showing that they deflated footballs, you'll win the internet today.

But you won't because they dont' exist. What does exist are texts from Brady discussing a game against the Jets last year where Brady is pissed that the balls are about 16PSI. Now, tell me how they had a long standing scheme to deflate balls when during a division rival game, the balls were above the legal limit. Not Below.

 

[Phoenix86]

If he was not legally obligated to hand over his phone without a court order (which the NFL can't hand out itself), destroying his phone is meaningless. If the NFL has no jurisdiction to confiscate or obtain Brady's phone due to him being in the player's union, they have no ground. Him destroying the phone after getting a new one actually makes sense in his case. Recovering deleted data on a phone is pretty trivial.

Hard to get a court order for a device that doesn't exist. Having prior knowledge that it might be important, then destroying it will not play out good in court.

You don't get a free pass for shredding documents before a court order in many cases simply due to the timing.

 

[CZroe]

Brady had a habit of having previous phones and the SIM cards destroyed when he was issued a new phone.

This destruction was not a one time deal.
The NFL knew this per testimony by Brady.

Who made the decision to issue him a new phone and when?

My older brother usually pulverized his old phones when he replaces then, especially if the old phone is broken and can't be wiped. I got his Note II in exchange for my Note 3 last time, so Brady not always destroying them only makes this more believable to me. Brady claims that the replaced his broken Galaxy S5 with an iPhone 6 only after they said they didn't want or need it for the investigation. If that is true, then his explanation makes perfect sense to me or any reasonable person who didn't see the destruction reported out of context. It sounds like he only held on to the broken phone as long as he did because he thought they might want/need it for the investigation. After all, he is a multi-millionaire.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Somebody cannot read. You are linking to non-verified rumors where the Bucs were never charged with anything. A lot different than Spygate which was charged, penalized, and admitted to by the Pats. You are quite frankly a retard if you think a rumor is the same as an admission of guilt and with paid penalty. This is why the Pats are under the microscope more than any other team.

Yes, the former QB of the Bucs admits to cheating before the Super bowl. He's just looking for attention right? Just as retarded as making posts about "if this was a criminal case".

 

[SP33Demon]

Pats fans still clinging to science, how cute. They wish it was only about science.

 

[CZroe]

According to an article posted earlier in this thread, it was destroyed the same day as his interview with the Wells investigation. If true, his excuse of "I always destroy my old phones!" is pretty lame.

Not if he only held onto it until she told him in the interview that it was not needed so he finally knew it was OK to go ahead and replace it.

 

[SP33Demon]

Yes, the former QB of the Bucs admits to cheating before the Super bowl. He's just looking for attention right? Just as retarded as making posts about "if this was a criminal case".

So a guy who's retired admitted to cheating? Whoopdedoo, Rice admitted to StickUm on his hands. Were their teams charged with anything at the time? Does that affect the 49ers being investigated more today? Is it still the same coach? Commissioner?

Holy shit it's sad that I had to spell this out.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You seem to have not read the Wells Report or any subsequent articles or analysis that came out after the fact.

If you can find me any text that anyone showing that they deflated footballs, you'll win the internet today.

Where did I say that? I said there were texts from the equipment guys about adjusting the inflation after conversations with Tom. Do you deny this?

But you won't because they dont' exist. What does exist are texts from Brady discussing a game against the Jets last year where Brady is pissed that the balls are about 16PSI. Now, tell me how they had a long standing scheme to deflate balls when during a division rival game, the balls were above the legal limit. Not Below.

Who said they had a long-standing scheme?

Anyhow, keep spinning. You'll going to work off a lot of pounds at the rate you're moving. You still keep ignoring the fact that Brady impeded the investigation and even ignored what I said earlier -- that I thought Brady should be suspended for being uncooperative and impeding the investigation even if he turned out to be 100% innocent.

 

[Capt Caveman]

So a guy who's retired admitted to cheating? Whoopdedoo, Rice admitted to StickUm on his hands. Were their teams charged with anything at the time? Does that affect the 49ers being investigated more today? Is it still the same coach? Commissioner?

Holy shit it's sad that I had to spell this out.

Question: Did the Patriots admit to and accept a penalty for Spygate?
Question: Have the Tampa Bay Buccaneers ever been accused of cheating?

The defense rests.

Yawn...

 

[emperus]

Where did I say that? I said there were texts from the equipment guys about adjusting the inflation after conversations with Tom. Do you deny this?



Who said they had a long-standing scheme?

Anyhow, keep spinning. You'll going to work off a lot of pounds at the rate you're moving. You still keep ignoring the fact that Brady impeded the investigation and even ignored what I said earlier -- that I thought Brady should be suspended for being uncooperative and impeding the investigation even if he turned out to be 100% innocent.

So, if it wasn't a long standing scheme why are you looking at and discussing texts from that Jets game?

And what else do the texts tells us? That after that game Brady asked the ball boys to give the refs a copy of rules regulating the Ball Pressures so it wouldn't be that big anymore.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So, if it wasn't a long standing scheme why are you looking at and discussing texts from that Jets game?

And what else do the texts tells us? That after that game Brady asked the ball boys to give the refs a copy of rules regulating the Ball Pressures so it wouldn't be that big anymore.

Why was Brady uncooperative? Why did he willingly and knowingly impede the investigation? If everything was by the rules, he should've had NO ISSUE fully cooperating.

 

[CZroe]

Why was Brady uncooperative? Why did he willingly and knowingly impede the investigation? If everything was by the rules, he should've had NO ISSUE fully cooperating.

If what he said is true (that he held onto it until they told him they didn't need it), then your base assumption for the question (that he willingly and knowingly impeded the investigation) is wrong. I hat football and only have a passing interest in this thread but it seems that you have glossed right over something that I didn't. You are too quick to dismiss it. Biased?

 

[Fingolfin269]

What a circus act. It makes the NFL look ridiculous. How this wasn't settled before there was even a Wells Report is beyond me. Regardless of whether Brady is guilty or not I just hope King Goodell and friends end up with some egg on their face. Lots of egg.

/not a Pats fan